870 Police Magnum - New or Used?

[Rhyno37]

Hey guys, I need some insight. I've recently had an itch to get another 870. I already have an express that I typically use for clays. Now I want a designated HD shotgun (preferably an 18.5" barrel of course). I'm looking at the Police Magnum 870. I know it's more heavy duty than needed for a civilian, but I have a few reasons for wanting one. My grandfather was a police officer, and I always coveted his 870 mag that he was issued. Another reason is that I find the express to be lacking in quality compared to the old 870's (Damn you Freedom Group). From what I've read, a new Police Magnum should have much tighter QA than the Expresses. That being said, I've looked at two options:

1) Buy a new Police Magnum for $536+FFL Fee+Shipping
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/94901

or

2) Buy a used/police trade in for cheaper (about $275), and send it in to Wilson Combat for the Remington steal package (Refurb and parkerize - $229).http://wilsoncombat.com/new/shotgun-remington-steal.asp#.U_E3eVboaqQ

I'm torn on which route to go. I've read that the older police magnums were still built better than the new. Everything I've read says that Wilson does a fantastic job refinishing, they repair or replace worn/broken parts, parkerize, and slap on new remington synthetic furniture.

Also have a question about the police trade in 870 I'm looking at. It looks to be in great condition, only flag is that the barrel is a 2 3/4". Does this matter for home defense? All the 00 buckshot I've seen is 2 3/4". I've attached a picture.

Finding a pre-2007 870 in rough condition for cheap to send to Wilson for refinishing has been insanely tough. Finding Police Trade-ins have been tough as well. I've checked almost all of my local gun stores and online. If you know where to find some, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Rhyno37]

Note that I would consider sending in any pre-2007 870 to wilson, but I can't find any that are rough and cheap. Also, if the used 870 trade in is in good condition, i'd just keep it the way it is.

 

[Schutzen]

I have done both. I purchased a new 870 Youth Model and made a 20 ga HD gun out of it. It serves the purpose very well (lower recoil for a smaller older woman), but the older 870 I sent to Wilson for rebuild is a much better gun. I too have been trying to locate a couple of 50's or 60's era 870 to have rebuilt for myself.

 

[rcmodel]

A friend has sent three slick old used Wingmasters to Wilson for the 'Steal Deal'.

I had to correct a sticking mag follower on one, and a really bad trigger on another to get them working when he got them back.

The third one was flawless, though the new Park finish on everything made it less slick operating as it was before.

So in that case, he got 1 in 3 odds of getting a working gun back.

Myself?
I'd buy a cheap OLD used Wingmaster hunting gun, cut the barrel off, and add the speed-feed kit myself.

You would end up with a much slicker operating gun for less money.

It just wouldn't look as TackyCool.

But, flat back Dupli-color auto touch up paint is pretty cheap.

rc

 

[DaleCooper51]

I went the used route. I picked up a a 26" IC Wingmaster from 1966 for $165 and added a 20" IC police barrel from Midway. Other than that I changed the extractor and magazine spring. I shoot it at skeet every so often and use it as a bad weather field gun. I have under $300 into it with 2 barrels and the few replacement parts.

 

[Rhyno37]

You guys have any suggestions of where to pick up used 870's? I've checked local gun stores and online, and can't find anything for a decent price

 

[MikeJackmin]

Summit usually has police-trade 870s available, they just sold out last week but I'm sure more will be coming:

http://summitgunbroker.com/riot-guns.html

The last batch of 870 Police Mags went for $330 or so.

I picked up a used police Wingmaster from Summit a while back, gave it a good cleaning, and it's as slick and solid as you could hope for.

My understanding is that the guns marked 'magnum' on the receiver will handle 3" shells (assuming a 3" barrel as well). I find them to be a bit much, personally.

 

[Fred Fuller]

They are where you find them. And 'decent prices' are getting fewer and further between on good used 870s of any kind (but there's no inflation...).

Buy in haste, repent at leisure ... keep shopping, one will turn up. Of course, summer sliding into fall is probably not the best time for shotgun shopping. In my usual haunts, a number of folks sell their shotguns at the end of hunting season and buy another one as fall rolls around again.

 

[TomADC]

Years ago my youngest daughter bought me a 870 magnum with the speed feed stock for Christmas, I put a little bit of everything thru it and now it's our home defense shotgun. Only 870 I've ever owned.

 

[Rhyno37]

Summit usually has police-trade 870s available, they just sold out last week but I'm sure more will be coming:

http://summitgunbroker.com/riot-guns.html

The last batch of 870 Police Mags went for $330 or so.

I picked up a used police Wingmaster from Summit a while back, gave it a good cleaning, and it's as slick and solid as you could hope for.

My understanding is that the guns marked 'magnum' on the receiver will handle 3" shells (assuming a 3" barrel as well). I find them to be a bit much, personally.

Actually that's where the shotgun I linked is from. Looks to be an older 870 Police Magnum Trade in. Says good condition, except that the barrel is an 18" 2 3/4" not 3". Is this a big issue for HD? It's only $275

 

[rcmodel]

No!

You Do Not want 3" for HD anyway!!!

One less round in the mag, and recoil that will knock you out of your Fuzzy Bunny Slippers causing slow follow-up shots.

The price seems good.
Gofer It!

rc

 

[Rhyno37]

No!

You Do Not want 3" for HD anyway!!!

One less round in the mag, and recoil that will knock you out of your Fuzzy Bunny Slippers causing slow follow-up shots.

The price seems good.
Gofer It!

rc

Good deal, just wanted to make sure I wouldn't be messing up by buying a 3" chambered gun with a 2 3/4" barrel.

Does that seem like a fair price otherwise?

 

[sappyg]

Says good condition, except that the barrel is an 18" 2 3/4" not 3". Is this a big issue for HD? It's only $275

Nope. I have a 2 3/4" Mossberg 870 barrel on a 3" 870 express receiver and it works fine. I doubt anyone would notice from the business end. Me on the other hand... I have no desire to load up 3" buck, or anything else, in the gun. 2 3/4 will do just fine.

BTW, $275 sounds fair but shipping and transfer fees will add to the cost. That $275 gun is pushing $325 real fast. That's pushing the high end but, if you want it, I'm sure it will serve you well.

 

[Rhyno37]

Nope. I have a 2 3/4" Mossberg 870 barrel on a 3" 870 express receiver and it works fine. I doubt anyone would notice from the business end. Me on the other hand... I have no desire to load up 3" buck, or anything else, in the gun. 2 3/4 will do just fine.

BTW, $275 sounds fair but shipping and transfer fees will add to the cost. That $275 gun is pushing $325 real fast. That's pushing the high end but, if you want it, I'm sure it will serve you well.

You're right, and if I send it to Wilson Combat to be refinished it's pretty much the price of a brand new 870p.

Which begs the question, would a used, older 870mag refinished be better than a new 870p? Do the police mags suffer from any problems like the express after the Freedom Group takeover? Apparently I've read the parkerizing is subpar.

 

[sappyg]

A Wingmaster they ant.

The finish on both 870s that I have experience with leaves something to be desired. But, on the other hand, I just don't care. They work. They ant pretty. They must be at least 15-20 years old and have spent the majority of their time behind a door. Seriously.

I ran 25 buck shot and 3 slugs (because I didn't want to shoot 4) through one this weekend with zero problems and that's all I care about.

If I had extra money and I had a choice of a better finish or more ammo I would choose more ammo every time.

 

[Fred Fuller]

If you aren't in a horse-killing hurry, just haunt the local gun shops and wait. Something in your budget ballpark will turn up. And if you can handle it before you buy, you aren't getting a pig in a poke.

 

[Gordon]

no advice except my take on 3" 870 (not the crazy 3.5 super mag thing) is for a "survivalist" the 3" chamber is the way to go. Not that I'd ever buy defensive 3" rounds but if one was to find them, at least you could shoot them. Just my $.02 after it happened to me .

 

[rodinal220]

I would go used and get a nice serviceable 870 Wingmaster. Don't worry about the 3" chamber, 2 3/4" shells are all you need for HD or street use.

Plenty of good 870 Wingmasters out there with fixed chokes and 2 3/4" chambers,duck and goose hunters do not want these so many get traded in for newer models set up for steel shot.

Not too many differences between a 870P and a Wingmaster,I do not see the value of the 870P model unless you get one on the cheap. I have recently purchased three used 870 Wingmasters for what the Bud's 870P goes for.

When I pushed a beat car,we had 870s,mostly regular old 870 Wingmasters with walnut stocks,18" barrels(not 18.5"), 2 3/4" chambers. They always worked.The older Savages and Ithaca 37s we had were retired to the crypt,they had been poorly maintained.

Cut the barrel down to 18.5-20" for HD. Give it a really good scrub and lube job. I would put a new mag tube spring in it. Generally no need to detail strip the trigger Assembly unless something is broken,just hose it out with Gun scrubber or brake cleaner,lubricate with your favourite snake oil.

 

[MikeJackmin]

Actually that's where the shotgun I linked is from.

Sorry, I didn't notice that.

I think that gun would be fine, if it's what you want. I don't know if it's a Wingmaster or an Express but you could give him a call and ask.

I think (in my very limited experience) that there is a meaningful difference between an Express and a Wingmaster, but less difference between a Wingmaster and a Police. The Express guns seem to be noticeably rougher and the dimpled magazines make them harder to modify. The Police guns differ from the Wingmasters in, I think, only two parts (an easily-replaced spring, and the extractor). I see the Police guns as a case of gilding the lily, they are meant to be a more-reliable version of a gun that is already praised as the height of reliability.

I have no idea how wide the gulf is between the newer guns and the older ones, but I do know that the older guns, if not abused, are generally excellent. It seems to me the sweet spot would be a used, not abused older Wingmaster. The only thing I'd look for would be the newer, anti-jam follower, which has been standard for many years now. If you really want the police upgrades, you can buy the parts yourself for a couple of dollars and drop them right in.

 

[breakingcontact]

The only thing I dont like about the 870 Police i have is the barrel is rough for about 6-8 past the forcing cone.

 

[breakingcontact]

The Police version isnt magic. You are paying more for the name than the parts. Kind of like a Colt 6920.

To me? Thats OK.

I like the idea of just upgrading the Express model or refinishing an old one as well.

 

[MIL-DOT]

I would not pay that kinda money and go to that much trouble just to get decent parkerized shotgun.
Instead, regularly check your local Armslist, I see solid Remingtons, Mossbergs,Mavericks,Winchesters,etc. pop up all the time, and often for very reasonable prices.

 

[Rhyno37]

So at this point I think I'm going to go with either a new 870p, or pick up an older wingmaster with an 18" barrel such as this:

http://www.armslist.com/posts/34001...tguns-for-sale--remington-870-wingmaster-12ga

Think its a good buy?

 

[sappyg]

^^^ that's perfect

 

[19-3Ben]

Wow. $225 for that gun is a screaming deal.
My used Mossberg 500ATP, was a very good deal at $195. Only $30 more for a Wingmaster is the kind of deal you can't say no to at least in my neck of the woods.