8x57r 360

[GCW5]

I found an old drilling in a local gun shop, chambered for side by side 16ga. & 8X57R 360, and decided I needed it. I figured I'd be able to reload for it with no problem. Found cartridge in the stock (has a 4 compartment storage unit in it), but it was stuck real tight. After pulling it out (and loosing the powder), it had a 195gr, .318 dia bullet.

No problem, I found some dies & 200 gr bullets from Huntingtons, but have been unable to find any recipes anywhere for it. Anybody have any?

I'm guessing it should be in the 1700 to 2000 fps range, if all else fails, I'll do some experminting, but would sure hate to blow the old girl up.

I managed to take a few bluerock with the shotgun, I plan on using it for dove & quail, but would like to use the rifle on deer.

Thanks!

 

[Jim Watson]

Cartridges of the World says, based on RWS data:
196 gr softpoint 8x57R360
+ 37.5 gr Re 19 = 1893 fps
+ 26.0 gr 3031 = 1560 fps
+ 37.0 gr 4350 = 1820 fps

CotW ESTIMATES the factory load at 1800 fps, but the 1935 DWM list has a 12.7 gram (196 gr) bullet at 637 m/s (2088 fps) with 2.3 grams (35.5 gr) of Rottweil No 5 powder.

I tried some other sources with no more data. Be careful working up to CotW data.

 

[NCsmitty]

Are you sure the 16ga is 2 3/4" chambers? Many drillings were 2 1/2".

I agree that you need to keep the loads for the .318 bullets lower for the sake of the old drilling. Cast bullets would be good for it and easier to load with the lower velocities.
Jacketed bullets will be expensive. Some people swage the .323 jacketed bullets down to .318.

http://www.hawkbullets.com/Pricelist.htm

NCsmitty

 

[Jim Watson]

Noooo.

8x57 R 360 is NOT 8x57R.
The 8x57 R 360 is a neckdown of the British .360 Nitro, a small express round, not related to the Mauser family.

 

[Afy]

That is what I was wondering... since the 8x57 Mauser is .323...

 

[rcmodel]

Alfy
Many drilling's chambered in 8x57R Mauser would be .318", I or J bore size.

The early Mauser 8x57J round used a .318" round nose bullet.

It was later changed to a spitzer .323" bullet in 1905, and called the 8x57S. (Actually the 7.92x57mm)

For some odd reason, the German commercial makers clung to the J .318" bore size long after it was obsolete in the military 98 Mauser.

So, if it is a WWI or later military Mauser, it is almost certainly a .323" bore.

If it is a pre-WWII sporting arm, it very well might be, and likely is a .318" bore.

rc

 

[NCsmitty]

Jim Watson, thanks for bringing up that difference to me. I did mention the use of .318 dia. bullets. If I had done my homework I would have spotted the error.


NCsmitty

It erroneously states that the 8x57R/360 is a copy of the "British .360 Nitro Express No.2". It is not.
This is duplicate data to Jim Watson's.

 

[Jim Watson]

I do not think the 8x57 R 360 was ever "upgraded" to the .323" S bullet as used in the Mauser rounds. Repeat, the 8x57 R 360 has nothing in common with the 8x57 Mauser or the 8x57R except nominal caliber. The chamber, the case, and the loads are totally different. The CotW entry is posted at:
http://www.weiss-trading.com/HVA/Law/Law_Main.htm

Discussion and some loads posted at:
http://www.handloads.com/forum/showthread.asp?topic=3&thread=2009

Another, with caveat on CotW loads:
"Careful using the "cartridges of the world" loads. I saw signs of over-pressure with the recommended 200 gr bullet using "real" HDS brass. I hate to see what would happen with converted 30-30. As noted below, the original bullet was lighter. My final load with "real" brass is a pretty-conservative 34 gr of 4350 under a 150 grain cal .318 bullet. Shot closer to the point of aim at 100 yards than these tired old eyes can hold on iron sights."

Another post noted that 8x57 R 360 is on the Quickload program.

 

[Jim Watson]

There are a lot of errors like that in CotW.

The 8x57 R 360 can hardly be a copy of the .360 NE because of the different caliber, but the basic brass is very close in length, head and rim diameters. Somebody at RWS or DWM apparently used that similarity to point up the difference from 8x57 IR, the rimmed version of 8mm Mauser.

The 8x57 R 360 is DWM case no 446 as discussed in Handloader's Digest 1994, although there is some confusion with the 8x58R Sauer. No loads are given but Handloader Magazine No 139, May 1989 is shown as a source.

There is NO connexion with the 360 No 2 which is a big bottleneck about as powerful as a .35 Whelen.

 

[GCW5]

Thanks Jim, the 37grs of 4350 looks like what I had figured as MAX using case volume comparisons with a 30/40 Krag (8X57R 360 has 83.9% of Krag capy.), and the velosity is in my guessed range. I'll start with 34grs and go from there.

Thanks also for the info on it's family, it has the same base size as the 9.3 X 74R, so I figured that is where it came from.

NCsmitty, chambers on the 16's meisure 2.66", the hulls I've checked meisure 2.69" to 2.7". In the June 2005 "Handloader" magazine, John Barsness says "No, 2.75-inch shotshells don't creat pressure in "2.5-inch" chambers, because there's still room for the wad to pass by the case mouth in the forcing cone." I'll still use lower pressure hand loaded shells in it, in the 8000psi range just to be safe.

Bullets cost $40 for 50, cases were $50 for 20.

 

[ants]

Congrats on the nice purchase, GCW5.

I know you'll be careful. This would be a bad time to proof test the old girl.
Make sure your dies are 8x57R 360, and not just 8x57R (like the Hungarian or something).

 

[Afy]

RCModel... i only have experience with the various Mauser 98's in 8x57, 8x60, 8x64 ...

No experience with a drilling what so ever.

 

[rcmodel]

It also applies to 98 Mausers.

You can find them in either bore size. Especially commercial pre-war ones.

rc

 

[GCW5]

Sorry I hadn't posted sooner, but I've been busy.

Had a chance to do some loading & shooting a couple weeks ago. I started off with 34gr of H4350, WLR primers & 200gr bullets. I loaded & shot 10 rounds, 1701 FPS and about 6 inches low @ 100 yards.

35gr of H4350 went 1754FPS, still low, 36gr H4350 shot about on target, still a little low @ 1816Fps. Tried 36.5gr H4350, 1881FPS shot pretty much center, I think I'll stop there.

Recoil and blast are mild, no sign of any pressure problems. Groups stayed around 3" off the sandbag and open sights, should work on deer easy enough.

Thanks again for your help & input guys!

 

[NCsmitty]

Interesting GCW5, thanks for posting your results. You have a piece of firearms history.

NCsmitty

 

[4570GOVT]

A couple quick observations on the 8x57R-360. I do not believe it is based off of the 9.3x74R but rather the 9.3x72R. Dies are available and 9.3x72R brass(Norma or RWS) can be formed to the 8x57R-360 case, It works, I've done it. It appears that the "standard" bore diameter is .318 but mine is .323. This was confirmed by 2 gunsmiths as well as RCBS when I sent the Chamber-bore cast to have my custom dies made. And finally I have found that load data for the 32-40 is both sufficiently powerful for deer yet mild enough not to stress my combo gun. This is a very interesting cartridge but not the easiest to get up and running.