9mm guys the 115 or 124?

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I was wondering what everyone thought about this load out there
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I've never used it so I don't have a strong opinion... though I'm sure many will chime in with strong opinings though they haven't used it either. :p

Still gets back to I'd rather have the bit heavier bullet. Black Hills uses the Gold Dots, Georgia Arms uses the Gold Dots and Speer obviously use Gold Dots. I still think the 124 Gr +P Gold Dot from any of them is going to be one of the best available loads. If shooting directly into soft tissue, I'm sure the 115 would cause a bit of trauma but if the guy is wearing several layers or denim or leather, I'd rather have the heavier bullet. And for police that might have to shoot through glass or sheet metal, I'd definately rather have the heavier bullet.

But that's just me.
 
phantomak wrote:
"In one of Massad Ayoob books , he talks about how the IL state police use the Black hills in 115 +P and had great results with the light bullet. He infact prefers the hot 115 loads from Black hills, I was wondering what everyone thought about this load out there"

If Ayoob wrote that then he's wrong. The IL State Police never used Black Hills ammo. The last loading used by the ISP was W-W 115 gr JHP+P+ Ranger which is often referred to as the "ISP load". It clocked an honest 1350 fps out of the 459 and 5904. It averaged 1320 out of my 6904. The ISP worked with W-W to develop that loading. That load was carried for several years and used many times with great success. When I grab one of my 9mm for off duty carry I still stoke it with that round. Prior to the W-W loading was Fed 9BPLE and 9BP. Those loadings too were very successful. For a short time in 1980 the ISP issued 115 gr Silvertip which was used once near Joliet on a biker. It was not so successful and yielded the same result as when it was used by the FBI in Miami. The Silvertip is a quick expanding, limited penetration round and was not the round that was needed at the time. Other issued rds have been Fed 95 gr SP, W-W 125 gr RNSP, and others during the 60s and 70s.
 
Interestng comments - -

isp2605. Many years ago, I read an article about Illinois State Police being among the first to go with a double action autoloader. They were said to use the S&W Model 39 in a cross draw flap holster. They contracted with Winchester for a special 100 grain soft point load - - "Power Point," I believe it was called.

And, having written the above, I now wonder if it was an article about INDIANA SP???? I honestly don't recall. It was one of the "I" states, and 'twasn't Idaho. Maybe Iowa? I don't think so . . . .

Late 1960s, I believe, in GUNS magazine.

Any thoughts on this?
;)
Best,
Johnny
 
I've tried different bullet weights from different manufacturers and finally decided on 115 gr. Winchester Silvertips. I really wanted to carry 124 gr. Remington Golden Sabers based on my research but the simple fact of the matter is Winchesters are the most reliable in my Glock 19 and I am most accurate with that ammo.
 
"Many years ago, I read an article about Illinois State Police being among the first to go with a double action autoloader. They were said to use the S&W Model 39 in a cross draw flap holster. They contracted with Winchester for a special 100 grain soft point load - - "Power Point," I believe it was called."

IL SP was the first large agency to go with autos. In 1968 the ISP adopted the S&W 39. Salt Lake City PD was soon after.
The flapped cross draw was worn until the mid-70s. It really wasn't that much slower than a strong side. The trick was to wear it just to the side of the belt buckle. That put the butt of the gun very close to your drawing hand. It was very easy to stand like your hands were folded in front but have the gun in your hand covered by your off hand. Where it was really fast was while in the interview stance. As soon as you cleared leather you were on target.
I don't know what the first loadings were. The Power Point was a RN soft point. I know for a while they were in the 125 gr. The initial loadings could have very well been 100 gr. After the 125 gr was the 95 gr Federal SP. Out of my 39 it clocked 1400 fps. The only shootings I saw with the 95 gr was on road hit deer. It did a great job on them. I dug out a lot of them and they mushroomed perfectly most of the time but other times broke up. The problem with the 95 gr was going against windows and car sheet metal.
Don't know what the IN SP or IA SP carried. The IASP carried revolvers until not too many years ago.
 
124 - 115 =9. I have always wondered what the real difference 9 grains make. I have a feeling its more marketing than anything.
 
I don't think 9 individual grains is important... Just that these days, I think a lot of folks in the 115 or lighter get very hung up on velocity... And many of the 115 and lighter bullets tend to seperate at the highest velocities.

Also, it may be only 9 grains, but that 9 grains translates into almost 8 percent. That's the difference between a 168 Gr 30 caliber slug and a 180 grainer and some folks will swear up and down that the 180 will kill a moose dead right there but would never be caught hunting anything bigger than large deer with a 165 or 168.

Same thing with a 185 Gr 45ACP slug vs a 200 Grain bullet.

Sectional densities can have a big impact on penetration... even small differences in sectional denisty.
 
Phantom, unfortunately, my bhp doesn't accurately place anything other than 115g rounds. During the break-in phase, I tried 115g and 147g WWB ammo, both FMJ and JHP, and found that the heavier bullets went high and to the right with a wide-spread pattern reminiscent of a shotgun pattern. The 115g rounds, again in 115g and 147g, shot the center of the target out, just like I was planning.

I'm going to try some +P 124g ammo just to see if there's a difference, and I'm hoping that I can find a heavier defensive round that shoots to POA. Can't stand that featherweight stuff for self-defense, though I'll use it if that's all that shoots right.
 
I'd say that depends. First, does your pistol have adjustable sights or fixed? I have a Taurus PT-92 which has fixed sights. I find that 115 grain +P 9mm strikes more on center than anything else. Based on those results, that is what I put in my 9mm.
 
I prefer 124 gr 9mm. It seems to be more accurate and more reliable in most of my 9mm pistols. My carry round of choice is Speer Gold Dot 124 gr. +p. I usually try to use the heaviest round in a given caliber, but 124 gr. seems to give me the best accuracy, reliablilty, and performance so I stick with it. I also use 124 gr. FMJ for practice whenever possible.
 
Still comes down to individual guns and probably individual shooters... My Taurus PT99AF shot so far to the left with CorBon 115 Gr +Ps that even with the sight adjusted all the way over, they still were over 3" or 4" to the left at 25 yards. Granted, as a civilian, I personally wouldn't hesitate to carry a gun that shot 3" up, down, left or right at 25 yards as long as the paterns were somewhat consistant, but just something to consider.

Being a long time fan of 230 Gr 45 bullets, I must admit that I would prefer a reliably expanding 147 gr bullet such as the Ranger Ts. I just don't have consistant access to any of the 9mm Ranger Ts and they're just too pricey for me to seriously evaluate when I can get the Georgia Arms 124 +P Gold Dots which have a stunning record on 'the street' and are easily obtained and less expensive for me.
 
147gr JHP from any of the major ammo makers. Doesn't come in +P so you won't be waking up the neighbors with excessive boom and flash, and you won't be pounding your gun into rubble. 124gr +P if you prefer the middle of the road and like the recoil. 115gr if you can't find anything else.
 
I think everyone with a 9mm has to see what works best for them. Some Nine's will be on target with 124 grain rounds, others, like my PT-92 are on target with 115 +P rounds. And still others might work best with 147 grain stuff.

As it is, 95% of the time, I carry a Firestorm Gov't model with 9 rounds (8+1) of 230 .45 ACP, and 2x8 round spare mags. I like to make big holes. ;)
 
I prefer 147gr RangerT or Golddots. I wouldn't mind using 124+P Golddots or 127+P+ RangerT either, but I like the extra penetration of the 147gr bullet. I've seen the 147gr Golddot work in a few O.I.S. and it performed well.


Stay Safe,

Don
 
Right now, Winchester 115gr JHP from WallyWorld. All I could afford. It shoots stright out of my PO1, and Evan Marshalls' research showed it to be a decent preformer. I can hit what I aim at, and that's more than half the battle. Later, I'll try some CorBon PowRball, and Fed EFMJ.
 
What does everyone think about hornady? decent stuff? I bought a box since I have to special order +p black hills
 
I use the Winchester Ranger 147gr. as self defense round in a 9mm. Here is my reason:
Bullets were fired in the mud (I know, shooting in mud says nothing but gives you a little idea), penetration was:
Federal: ~7"
Winchester: ~7"
Remington: ~9"

I don't have a scale but it seems like the Winchester Ranger 147gr. bullet still has it's full weight, the Federal Hydra Shock 147gr. lost a lot.

bulletcomparison.jpg
 
I prefer the 147 grain bullets but would use what ever functioned the best and hit POA in your particular pistol. I tend to prefer the non +P ammo - especially in metal framed pistols.

Of course, YMMV

Ken
 
If you REALLY want to know how these rounds are going to perform downrange go to tacticalforums.com and search the terminal ballistics forum for 9mm ammunition tests. No opinions. Just data. Happy trails.
 
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