9mm vs .45 ;P

[sturmruger]

I hate to say it but we really need to not feed the trolls.

 

[otomik]

read my post of your comment u asswhipe

seriously guy, there's much better things you could be doing with your time than 9mm vs 45acp. It's like counting sand, as is insulting a stranger over the net with the use of profanity in private messages and instant messenger.

 

[R.W.Dale]

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

Even if it was somewhat provoked, this kid seems to be a bit thin skinned and too quick to use profanity. Maybe he needs to grow up a little, or find another site.

 

[Phyphor]

(nt)

.

 

[gudel]

Just buy both 9mm and 45acp, problem solved.

 

[gbran]

.17mach2 v. 500 S&W Magnum

Personally, I carry a .17 rimfire because it's all about shot placement and we all know that large caliber handguns are not capable of shot placement and certainly aren't good at double taps.

Just kiddin......... I'm just tired of hearing that large calibers aren't capable of shot placement. I carry both 9mm's and .45's and don't feel under or over gunned with either.

 

[Cousin Mike]

In the 9mm vs .45ACP debate, the one thing I read most is "shot placement."

IMHO, that is almost everything - almost. Once the bullet hits the target, shot placement has run its course. From then on, you need penetration and (hopefully) expansion in order to get the job done, right? That's why I choose the .45, not much need to worry about penetration, and expansion is a nice bonus if it happens. As stated earlier, no handgun is ideal for SD. I like the .45 because to put it simply, it tears bigger holes than the 9mm. A lot bigger holes.

Choose good ammunition, and either round will do its job.

 

[yy]

sorry, one more bump

I went from a compromised 40-cal choice and return once more to the 9 vs 45 quandary. (yes I mean compromised choice. as in, what was I thinking?)


while playing IPSC I observed the following (and if I suck this bad in a game ... I'm going to need a platoon of angels watching over me in a self defense shoot)

* can't seem to hit the paper targets reliably from more than 10 feet away. This speaks to my lack of control on the follow-up shot with my 40 cal glock. This also means I do not have the skills to empty my magazine on the same target within couple of seconds and using sight picture.

* I over gripped the weapon and ended up missing 5+ times when aiming for each steel plate at around 20 feet.

* compact glock pinches, hard, and multiple places. It's also harder to aim at targets over 10 feet from me. I just found that a full length barrel helps me aim better.



so now I'm looking forward to getting my own 45 cal full size pistol for better gaming. Otherwise, what's the point of carrying if I'm going to hit everything other than the threat?

 

[nyresq]

smells like a troll farm in here.....

 

[Magnumite]

Well, 9mm - 45 , I use what I have. I've done this a year or two. What I really want to see is 15 shots in a couple seconds at 25 yards in a baseball sized group. With a service grade pistol. I will pay to see that.

 

[Biker]

Well, 9mm - 45 , I use what I have. I've done this a year or two. What I really want to see is 15 shots in a couple seconds at 25 yards in a baseball sized group. With a service grade pistol. I will pay to see that.

Yes my Friend, I would too.

Biker

 

[otomik]

edited for better part of valor, this thread needs to die.

 

[CajunBass]

Can I play? I've never posted on a 9mm vs 45 thread before. Can I? Can I ? Can I?

Too bad. I'm going to anyway.

What was the question?

Oh that's right.

I've always thought that shooting somebody with anything was a good way to get them re-evaluate their career choices and suddenly remember a lifelong desire to check into the emergency medical career fields. Like RIGHT now.

I'm sure from time to time people will run into someone who doesn't have that kind of ambition. They may have to be shot again.

Not that I know anything of course.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

With the 9mm, you are depending on expansion just to equal the non-expanded .45. Sometimes it doesn't happen, though, and sometimes it happens too much. When it doesn't happen, you get a narrow wound channel, with little shock effect. When it happens too much, you get less than adequate penetration, risking not reaching any vitals.

With a 230 grain .45, you will just about always get adequate penetration and you don't even need much expansion, though some deformation seems to really increase the shock effect. I use the Golden Saber 230 grain .45 ACP. My reason is that the Golden Saber is NOT a particularly reliable expander (it has a hard bronze jacket), but it also does not have a smooth and rounded frontal surface, so you get a combination of 1) deep penetration just due to the forward momentum of a 230 grain slug traveling at 900+ fps out of a five inch barrel, 2) a .45 + caliber hole, and 3) a ragged and destructive path, due to its not being a smooth/round frontal surface.

When the 9mm perform ideally, expanding just enough, but not too much, it comes close to equaling the destructive effect of an unexpanded Golden Saber 230 grain .45 out of a five inch barrel, but when it doesn't, it's far inferior, and there are too many variables involved in attaining the perfect degree of expansion to take the chance, in my opinion.

PS: Yes, if either strikes the heart, or the spine, or the cranium, lights are out, but are you sure you can strike one of those targets every time? When you can't, that's when the .45 ACP shines, IMHO.

 

[otomik]

another observation

.45 ACP loses a lot of velocity with barrels under commander 4.25'' length
9mm has minimal loses even with sub 4'' barrels

conclusion: maybe these cartridges shouldn't be fighting over the same turf when their advantages really come out in different platforms, get a P228 and a 3913 then a P220 and a 4506 etc. make your CCW a concealable 9mm and big boy home defense pistol a fullsize .45 and enjoy the best of what each cartridge offers.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

another observation

.45 ACP loses a lot of velocity with barrels under commander 4.25'' length
9mm has minimal loses even with sub 4'' barrels

conclusion: maybe these cartridges shouldn't be fighting over the same turf when their advantages really come out in different platforms, get a P228 and a 3913 then a P220 and a 4506 etc. make your CCW a concealable 9mm and big boy home defense pistol a fullsize .45 and enjoy the best of what each cartridge offers.

Since a lightweight Commander is about the most ideal concealed carry weapon ever devised, why compromise when carrying? You can have a .45 for your carry weapon, and a 12 ga for your "big boy" home defense gun.

 

[otomik]

Since a lightweight Commander is about the most ideal concealed carry weapon ever devised, why compromise when carrying? You can have a .45 for your carry weapon, and a 12 ga for your "big boy" home defense gun.

aluminum frame 1911s don't have a reputation for durability, any truth to that?

ETA: here's the stephen a camp article i was thinking about when i posted
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/P220ammo.htm

maybe 9mm was just a 101 year fad, wish Beretta would get with the program and make more .45s
you've shown me the light, now show me what true commander length durable aluminum frame 1911s are in production.

 

[chopinbloc]

big boy home defense pistol a fullsize .45

i'm still surprised when i hear people mention the phrase "home defense pistol." the absolute only reason i can see for using a pistol for home defense is that you could only afford one gun and it had to be a handgun because you intend to carry it. in any other situation a long gun is several orders of magnitude better.

now 12ga or 5.56?

 

[otomik]

i'm still surprised when i hear people mention the phrase "home defense pistol." the absolute only reason i can see for using a pistol for home defense is that you could only afford one gun and it had to be a handgun because you intend to carry it. in any other situation a long gun is several orders of magnitude better.

now 12ga or 5.56?

honestly I meant it more as Home Defense/Sidearm for when you have a rifle/WinterCCW pistol

a one handed gun isn't bad when you're using the other hand to dial the cops, some people also find it more managable in close quarters especially given short barreled rifles and shotguns require you to jump through some legal hoops.

 

[The Real Hawkeye]

aluminum frame 1911s don't have a reputation for durability, any truth to that?

ETA: here's the stephen a camp article i was thinking about when i posted
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/P220ammo.htm

maybe 9mm was just a 101 year fad, wish Beretta would get with the program and make more .45s
you've shown me the light, now show me what true commander length durable aluminum frame 1911s are in production.

If you buy yourself an aluminum framed Commander, you will have to do a lot of shooting to wear it out in your lifetime. If, however, you are the type who will shoot it that much, you need a Smith & Wesson scandium alloy framed Commander, the Commander Sc. Same weight as aluminum, but nearly as durable as steel. That's what I have. Great little gun, and perfect for lightweight carry, and it's a .45. Put that in a Milt Sparks VM II IWB and you won't even know you're carrying a weapon, even at the end of the day.

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

i'm still surprised when i hear people mention the phrase "home defense pistol." the absolute only reason i can see for using a pistol for home defense is that you could only afford one gun and it had to be a handgun because you intend to carry it. in any other situation a long gun is several orders of magnitude better.

now 12ga or 5.56?

My,"Home defense pistol", IS IN 5.56X45 PDW's or AR-15 pistols Rule ...

Now to this caliber,"debate". One size does not fit all!!! One caliber is not suited to all applications or desires, so get the largest caliber you can effectively use and don't look back.

I shoot handguns that start only with a .4X or better because they are what I started shooting first. At minimum my handguns have to have comparable energy. So the snappy recoil of .40 and the pushy recoil of .45 is just normal to me.

PS-Hmmm, I would like to see that 15 shot group at 25 yards in a few seconds, that can be covered with a baseball. Hell I'd like to see a SOFTBALL sized 15 shot group at 25yards in a few seconds .

 

[Cousin Mike]

now 12ga or 5.56?

7.62x39

 

[Black Majik]

7.62x39

.50 BMG

 

[ReadyontheRight]

I like reading about the endless debate, but I think the real contest is a double-bill:

.45 and 9mm

vs.

911 and Blissninnies.