A 99% singer 1911A1 for sale!

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I made no joke about dead airmen.

Let me explain. It was queried as to how the gun could survive a crash in such good condition. I commented that the tail gunner escaped with only minor injuries and he wasn't even in a holster, which it would be expected that the gun would have been in at the time of the crash. If the tailgunner could get out in good condition, then it is likely that other things could as well. Plane crashes are very interesting phenomena whereby there may be tremendous destruction in on part of the plane but things remain in surprisingly good shape in another part. Just because the plan crashed does not mean that everything has been destroyed.

The gun very well may have been in stowed gear, likely in its holster, and exceptionally well protected, relatively speaking. Note that the gun was NOT noted being removed from an airman.

Airmen were killed in the crash, all but 1, but I made no joke about the dead. Even so, as noted by AltDave, there is a preponderance of gallows humor in the annals of military aviation.

Very cool. I re-read it and now understand. Thank you, no harm no foul. It's just a sensitive subject for me personally.

As for the Singer, what a beaut. Whoever gets that pistol will have a real treasure, and an awesome combat sidearm.
 
(The North American is rarer, but seems to be less faked,
I was going through my R.I.A.C. cats from past auctions and they put up a North American 1911 a couple years back. Can't find my PR sheet, don't know whether it sold or for how much. Definitely not as well finished as the Singer.
 
Well, that's one version. The other is that the Singer Company was given a contract to figure out how to build them in mass quantities - and when they turned over the results to the Army, it was with the expressed ability to make 25,000 a month. They were given a contract and implied in it was to try to increase production to 100 an hour.

They failed. Those pretty guns couldn't get off the lines fast enough, and the whole shebang shut down. Many parts were scrapped outright. Tooling and prints were given to Remington Rand - who then demonstrated they could do it, along with Ithaca. Singer went on to other things.

Singer is really an example of "those who can't, teach, and those who can (Remington Rand), do." They failed to perform, crank out shooters in the tens of thousands monthly. Those 500 are all that survived meeting Army standards. A promise that turned out to be hype.

Yet collectors are gonna collect. If the gun that was supposed to shoot JFK ever came up on the market I suspect it would be overpriced, too.

Where did you get all this information, Tirod?
 
I don't know much about high-buck collectible guns, but I don't like the story about it being recovered from a plane crash. It breaks the chain of ownership. For a gun that is expected to sell for over $100,000, I would think it would be possible to fabricate an exact duplicate from scratch for less than $25,000.

Oh, sure, it might very possibly be a true story. But my father a) was a insurance claims adjuster, and b) grew up in New Jersey during the Great Depression, and I guess I got a bit of cynicism from him. I hope the gun is real.
 
I don't know much about high-buck collectible guns, but I don't like the story about it being recovered from a plane crash. It breaks the chain of ownership.
In what way? They know who it was issued to and they know who recovered it. It changed owners, but that in no way detracts from its value.
For a gun that is expected to sell for over $100,000, I would think it would be possible to fabricate an exact duplicate from scratch for less than $25,000.
This would be a near impossibility for a number of reasons. I'll give you just one that would render the plan unworkable. Singers were highly polished and given a commercial grade blueing. But there were many machining and broaching marks on the inside of the gun. One would have to duplicate them exactly, to make it appear that the part was made with WW II Singer tooling. Almost impossible to do. Most fakes are constructed from an existing 1911 and the gun is then altered to resemble a Singer. Original markings are polished off and new markings added. The attempt is made to duplicate the deep black color of the Singer blueing. A real expert ( not me ) can spot a fake 1911 in a New York Second.
I hope the gun is real.
I can assure you that the real experts I alluded to reside in the Rock Island Auction Company. They are the top firearms auction company in the country, at least in dollars realized in sales. They also maintain contact with experts in various types of guns, around the country. When they had a rare Gas Trap Garand up for sale two years ago, they called Scott Duff who authenticated that it was original and proper. Pretty sure Bruce Canfield is consulted on U.S. Martial arms as well. He might even be after this one.

You can bet the farm that it is real.
 
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It sounds like you are involved in this sale somehow.
No, not really. I live close to the R.I.A.C. and I visit them frequently for cats and to ask questions. I am not employed by them and I am simply impressed by their friendly attitude and willingness to take the time to answer questions about guns from walk-ins like myself.
 
Cowabunga, 1911 fans!! The rarest, most valuable 1911A1 known to exist is up for sale at the Rock Island Auction Company. It is A Singer, # S800221, and it has a complete history to accompany it. It was issued to a Lt. Charles H. Clark, U.S.N. Obviously he never used it. It is 99% and has three extra magazines. It has the high polish finish typical of the 500 Singers that were manufactured before the Government decided that the pistols were too well built and too pretty. The talents of the Singer MFG. CO. were put to better use.

I would post a pic out of the catalog, but that isn't legal, so if you want to see the most valuable 1911A1 in existence, go to the R.I.A. website and have a look. Lot # 2446

If you're interested in buying it ....better sell the house, the car, and your left leg...It is estimated to go for $160,000 - $ 240,000.. :what::what::what:
What's that one word to describe the price? COWABUNGA!!!!
 
No, not really. I live close to the R.I.A.C. and I visit them frequently for cats and to ask questions. I am not employed by them and I am simply impressed by their friendly attitude and willingness to take the time to answer questions about guns from walk-ins like myself.
Now that is cool living by that auction house!
 
Thanks for your civil and well-informed reply, tark. As I said, I don't much about high-buck collectible guns! I am glad to know there are people out there who can authenticate such things and ascertain the truth.
 
What's that one word to describe the price? COWABUNGA!!!![/Q
Auction is in a couple weeks. That same gun sold a while back, for over a hundred thousand dollars OVER the high estimated price. I think RIAC and the owner are on a fishing expedition here. The low estimate this time around is about what it sold for last auction. Almost certainly the low estimate this time around is well under the reserve. I don't think the owner really wants to sell it, he's just curious to know what it might bring.

Of course, the owner might have passed away, which would explain why it is up for sale again... Doesn't really matter. Out of my price range.
 
Owl? Falcon?
Not that good. I meant the best as far as cats go. Once all my mouse traps weren't catching anything, I knew my new cats were (always had mouse problems, not anymore).

I've watched them climb my barns posts, wait patiently, and take down pigeons. I've had everything from mice to rabbits lay dead on my doorstep...as a gift from my two barn cats. Hell of a thing to watch em hunt.

Sorry to be so off topic from the singer's. All I can contribute to that is my grandfather owned one at one point. I held it when I was maybe ten. My dad still talks about how he sold it for cheap many years ago. Like under $1000 type of cheap. I'm guessing it was a fake. Or hoping.
 
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