a different drummer

[oldfool]

just musing
not meaning to inspire another 380 bashing thread here, or woobie caliber war

some few of us march to a different drummer, re: what we choose for casual wear, meaning 380s
but ever since the kel-tec, then LCP, the gun makers have been falling all over themselves offering yet another 7 shot derringer, but few (if any) that are truly all that shootable..
(and hot on the heels of that ever smaller/lighter 9s and 40s of course... and in revolver speak, airweight 357 snubbies no less, who ever woulda' thunk it)

just thinking - what if Ruger marketeering was serious enough about 380s, "brave" enough, to do an upsized LCP in 380 ?

slim, trim, single stack, locked breech, same as LCP, but with more handle (something your pinky can play a full role in), one extra round in mag, and 2X the barrel w/ some rational semblance of sights on it, enough extra weight/length such that the slide just comes back vs. up when fired, mebbe a tad more steel in the steel/alloy/poly recipe... even with that mushy DAO trigger (not that bad for everyday carry)...
really not that huge a design change for Ruger to go there if they were so inclined (the LCP is a pretty decent little gun for a derringer, it's main selling point being it's biggest flaw, i.e, too small to be shootable friendly)

would anybody but me take a shot at it ?

true there are Sigs and PPK slice-n-dicers out there, but they could use a little more competition on pricing, methinks

would go against the grain to suggest that a little bit more of a small thing is better than a little less of a small thing, I know, but I would be tempted
I like ~23 oz (unloaded, ~27 oz loaded) worth of a small thing

PS
it's really not about grizz killing, or one shot stops, or CCW you know
shucks, I own 40 firearms, ain't getting rid of any of 'em, but there are only 4 of the 40 that I ever casual wear (autoloaders and revolvers combined)
there are a lot of us like that out there in gun land you know
after all, what's a guy ever really going to do with a 6" Automag II and 6" K-48, except enjoy owning and shooting 'em

 

[M2 Carbine]

would anybody but me take a shot at it ?

If it would fit in my pocket I might try it.

That's assuming Ruger tested the gun well before they sold it.
I've been burned bad recently on a couple .380 pistols that were sold before the bugs were worked out (SIG P238 and Diamondback).

I do have a couple Ruger LCP that are right reliable and that I carry.

 

[DasFriek]

I see nothing wrong with a larger .380
Take a look at the Sig P238, If you have never shot one its an amazing little gun to shoot.
Great trigger, Very manageable recoil thats comfortable to shoot.
I had one and really miss it, But even tho .380 ammo can be found alot easier now than when i had mine its still rather expensive.

I see more manufactures heading to the route of micro 9mm's rather than larger .380's
Imo the Sig P238 felt strong enough to shoot standard load 9mm without much beefing up.

This is my opinion, But i dont see much need for larger .380's as much as i do for micro 9mm's especially ones that are comfortable to shoot.
ATM not many of these micro 9mm's are on the market, But the ones out there sell like crazy. And there is a big gap between the Keltec PF9/11 and Kahr PM/MK9 price wise for a maker to step in and make some big sales.
Sig is working on the P290 so that may be a good alternative.
But the $350-$650 micro 9mm market is wide open and many people needing a gun with good quality better than Keltec's and less price than Kahr's.

 

[Mike J]

I think DasFriek is right. To be honest I have never really had any interest in .380. I can understand why people like the little pocket guns because it allows a person to carry a gun at times when otherwise they would be unarmed. If I were to buy a gun in the size you describe I would want a 9mm. 9mm ammo is cheaper & easier to find. I also feel more confident in the cartridge (I am not trying to start a caliber war just expressing my opinion). I don't really think a .380 in that size would sell well.

 

[2WheelsGood]

Sometimes I carry an LCP and sometimes I carry a PPS. I can't imagine needing anything in between.

 

[PabloJ]

I used to own German 9x17 PPKs which it was reliable high quality gun. When Colt brought out the Series 90 DA 'Pocket Nine' 9x19 I traded my PPKS for one plus four extra magazines and have not looked back. I have been very satisfied with this trade and given opportunity would do it again. If you like the .380 I would look for FN Browning Mod. 1971. It has long sight radius with excellent target grade rear sight fits small or medium hands very well and can be had for little more then modern tiny plastic framed junk.

 

[mongo4567]

I don't see the need for a larger .380. You might as well have a 9mm if you get any bigger than the micro .380s. A PF9 or PM9 is not very much larger than a P3AT, but I still don't like carrying them in my pocket. I would really like to see a less expensive choice similiar to the Rohrbaugh 9mm.

 

[rellascout]

I honestly think the entire mini-concealed carry gun movement is going the wrong way. First it was the mini 380 autos not you see the mini 9mms. I simply do not see the huge appeal. To me there is a point where the gun is simply too small. Then again I carry BHPs or 1911s. If I want something smaller I get out the 642. The only 380 auto I currently own is this...



Nothing micro about it... LOL

I agree with a lot of what the OP is saying. This race to the smallest gun is creating a sub-set of guns which IMHO are simply no fun to shoot. I see tons of people at the range with their mini 380 autos and they cannot get through 100 rounds because their hands hurt. Especially for the newbies less shooting is not a good thing. The micro 9mms are going to be exacerbate the issue not make it better.

Small sub 3" barrel + very little trigger time = missed target even at close range.

I think that the micros have their place but for too many IMHO they are becoming the default starting point because I want to carry in my pocket without a hassle.

 

[rcmodel]

I have a P3AT, as well as a SIG P232 SL.

The Kel-Tec can go everywhere with me I want it to go, but it's not much fun to shoot.
The P232 SL is bigger then a Walther PPK, yet small enough for hip pocket carry, but it sticks out a little.

But it is one of the nicest shooting and accurate centerfire handguns I own.
Simply amazing accuracy, and very comfortable.

I have other small to medium size 9mm's to chose from, but the SIG P232 is far more fun to shoot.

Yes, it wasn't cheap, but it's a real German made SIG you can't hardly get like that any more!

And I agree there is a place for an affordable larger "locked-breach" .380 from Ruger or Kel-Tec, or somebody.

It would appeal to older folks who can't handle a larger caliber or blow-back actions stiff recoil spring & slide, or just is scared of 9mm and up blast & recoil.

For that matter, the old Colt 1908 .380 was a very popular gun for a lot of years for a lot of people, and still is.
And they are certainly larger then a lot of todays combat Tupperware 9mm pocket rockets.

The other thing is, those old-school "flat-slide" designs of John B. are much easier to conceal then the "Blocks" of today with their 1 1/8" thick slides and double-stack grips.

rc

 

[Jim PHL]

I see your point and agree. Not every gun has to be a carry gun, especially doesn't have to be a pocket gun. Some are just nice and/or fun to shoot and, well, to HAVE. Sig has sold many P230 and P232 models in .380 which are not especially small or "pocketable". There's also plenty of people who carry 3" lightweight, compact 1911's who spend a lot of range time with all-steel full-size government models.

To be honest, I am not personally interested in any .380, but it would make sense and, I would think, (key pioint) not be a huge new investment on the part of Kel-Tec or Ruger to offer what you are asking for. The frame costs them next to nothing to produce anyway, and the internals could be made up of exactly the same parts they are using now. Just say a limited run of P3AT "Plus" or LCP "Plus" models with a larger frame and longer slide and barrel. Many who carry these little pistols would own and shoot the larger version because the originals are not really that much fun to shoot a lot of rounds from. Kind of a reverse angle on those who want a smaller .22 version of their full-size gun to practice with.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Ok, so have you SHOT one of these pocket monsters
Go shoot a PF9 and see if you want to upsize in that small a package, it's doable, just not nice

As for size, lots of gun in the compact size, 1903,1908, European, and even some new stuff like the Beretta 84/ browning BDA

The browning 1922/1910 is close to what you want, older stars, FEG Femeru (sp) CZ 37, um lots out there if you look, even glock makes on, but they can't be imported cause the don't have enough points.

 

[oldfool]

a lot of nice comments, thanks guys
like I said, it's not about self defense, it's just about stuff you enjoy shooting, and shoot well with
I never ever pocket carry my S&W 66s, or k-17s, or k-48, or Taurus 99, or Automag II, or Hi-Std Double Nine, or Ruger MKs, or S&W622, or Beretta 25acp, or Hi-Std derringer, or SP101, or S&W 63.. don't wear 'em at all, but enjoy 'em all

do carry a Colt GM 380acp IWB, sometimes a S&W 60 2" snubbie OWB, will occasionally drop an LCP in an oversized coat pocket.. but the only one of those I really enjoy shooting as much as a S&W 66 is that old Colt

much admire the Browning BDA and Beretta cousin, but prefer single stacks
tempted by the single stack Beretta, of course
have drooled over a Sig 232 under glass more than once, but not quite often enough, and the Sig 238 just don't do it more me, leastways vs. the Colt

mostly thinking there are way too few who know how well the not-downsized 380s shoot, very few even pay any attention to them
(but obviously there are some who do)

38+P and 357 ammo ain't all that cheap either but it don't stop an old fool from running some thru a warm barrel pretty regular; you can only have just so much rimfire fun
380 was scarce during the panic, mostly only because of the 7 shot derringer craze
Me, if I wanted a "better" 9, I would be looking for a good deal on a BHP, but I wouldn't wear it, just shoot it.

some good tips here though, to go googling on, much appreciated !

and who knows, the 7 shot derringer craze is wearing thin, maybe some gun maker sales VP will get desperate to find the next "best" thing, for all the folks who never shot much before but found out that no matter how small and convenient and/or cute they are, they throw lead downrange about as well those BlackWidow micros, just a little quicker

 

[Shadow 7D]

I got a Beretta 1935, You can still find a 1934 (.380) for about 250 if you look, solid (VERY Heavy) steel, still pocketable, single stacked and comfortable and easy to shoot (for me)