Considering a .380 (as a backup)

[chaim]

There have been a couple RM380 recommendations. There is a lot to like about that gun...Inexpensive (Buds has it for $245 before rebate, so under $200 before FFL transfer fees), all metal, usable (though small) sights, locked breech design (less felt recoil), hammer instead of striker. While I have my share of polymer and striker fired pistols, the traditionalist in me loves that it has aluminum construction and that is hammer fired. Though, I recall that there were initially some reliability issues so I stopped paying attention to it a while ago. Since I stopped paying attention, those issues may well be ironed out and I wouldn't know it. So, I'll have to take a look and check out some reviews here and on other forums and I may add it to the list. If it appears to be reliable, it may jump near the top of the list.

 

[herrwalther]

I have thought about the LCP Custom since it has functional sights. I may add it to the list. However, how good are the sights really? Of course, anything is an improvement over the LCP, but I do want half decent sights.

I have seen a few LCP Customs. The sights are standard 3 dot similar to what is on other pistols of the same class. Bersa Thunder for example. If I were going back to 380 anytime soon, I would rather have a LCP Custom over the original or the LCP II.

 

[Zerodefect]

Kahr P380 or Glock 42 in a Crossbreed minituck. I like mine at 5:30.
Beware, those little pistols need hot ammo. Carbon Powerball works ok, get the hottest version they have (if they even have a variety anymore). Don't feel bad if they choke on WWB.

You weren't kidding. Needs a Apple logo sticker or a medical device logo.

 

[chicharrones]

There have been a couple RM380 recommendations. There is a lot to like about that gun...Inexpensive (Buds has it for $245 before rebate, so under $200 before FFL transfer fees), all metal, usable (though small) sights, locked breech design (less felt recoil), hammer instead of striker. While I have my share of polymer and striker fired pistols, the traditionalist in me loves that it has aluminum construction and that is hammer fired. Though, I recall that there were initially some reliability issues so I stopped paying attention to it a while ago. Since I stopped paying attention, those issues may well be ironed out and I wouldn't know it. So, I'll have to take a look and check out some reviews here and on other forums and I may add it to the list. If it appears to be reliable, it may jump near the top of the list.

The reliability issues I've read about were with the R51. The Rohrbaugh based RM380, I've not heard anything out of the ordinary to consider it's reliability suspect as a whole.

My particular RM380 hasn't bobbled once in 350 or so rounds. I can't say that about my other two semi auto pocket guns.

 

[sgt127]

Somebody took one for the team shooting 500 rounds through an RM380....

 

[chaim]

I really have swung from my initial leanings. My initial list was in about the order I was considering. Keeping my LCP makes some sense since I already have it so keeping it and adding the laser and a Hogue sleeve was my 1st choice. Figuring it would be $80-200 to add the laser ($80 Laser Max or the Crimson Trace DS-122 Defender which works/looks like the LM, around $200 for the traditional Crimson Trace), and that I can sell the LCP for around $150 the S&W was a close 2nd since I could be in it for about the same as the laser on the LCP if I use the LCP sales money to buy it.

Well, after a lot of reading and You Tube videos I'm leaning towards three main guns now (in no particular order since I'm not sure which is my ranking order):
-Remington RM380
-Colt Mustang
-SIG P238

All three have acceptable sights. You Tube video after You Tube video on all three comment on how comfortable to shoot they are compared to other small .380s. That isn't just about range comfort, but it also means faster and more accurate follow up shots which can be a huge practical advantage. I guess the next step is to find them at local dealers to see how they fit my hand. I know several that carry the SIG regularly, and one or two that sometimes have the Colt. I don't think I've ever seen any local dealers carrying the Remington but I'm sure someone does. Since the Colt and SIG are essentially shrunken 1911s, and 1911s fit my hand like no other gun (other than CZ 75 based guns) I suspect the Colt and SIG will be best on this, so the main question is how the RM380 feels in my hand.

So, advantages/disadvantages:
-RM380: By far it is the least expensive, like the Bodyguard, if I sell the LCP and use that to fund this gun it will cost me about the same in the end as getting the laser for the LCP. Being DAO it fits my current carry philosophy the best, and it would be the easiest to use with my weak hand (being a backup, it will often be positioned for my weak hand in case my strong hand is either busy with something else or injured). For cons, I don't like that the trigger breaks all the way to the rear (what if I'm wearing gloves) and the sights are the least usable of the three.

-Colt: Best looking of the three IMO. Acceptable sights but could be better (and since the front is built into the slide changing them would get expensive), better sights than the RM380. I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but being SAO it should have a decent trigger (though heavy for a SAO). It is a little expensive (compared to the others I was looking at) but it isn't terrible. As for cons, being SAO I'll have to go back to training with the safety, and I think it is just a right handed safety which can be a negative when I want to carry it on my weak side.

-SIG: Best sights of the three, and night sights are standard. The trigger is nice (I've dry fired them before when looking at other guns, though it has been a while), though a tad heavy for a SA trigger. Good reputation for reliability and they definitely have a loyal following. Like the Colt, prices are higher than my other options, but not terrible. Like the Colt, it is SA so I'd have to change my training and go back to training for the safety. I understand that some of the more expensive models may come with ambidextrous controls, but not the less expensive models.

For the SIG and Colt, I could always order ambi safeties but that would add to the cost. I could train to use my index finger, or reach my thumb to the other side to use the safety, but that is extra training, extra movement, and one more thing that could go wrong. I could always wear it strong side and use it as my primary, and use the higher capacity and larger caliber gun as my weak side backup, but that just seems backwards. Though, it does make some sense: weak side = weaker hand, larger gun = less perceived recoil (possibly even in a more capable caliber), so the larger gun on the weak side may work better than the smaller gun on the weak side.

 

[chaim]

As for the DA v. SA, I long ago switched to DA with no manual safety for carry and home defense. I now have a full "stable" of DAO (or striker) or DA/SA (decocker only) carry guns to cover different needs: LCP (to be replaced or enhanced per this thread), P290RS, M&P40c, CZ P01, and .45ACP P250 Compact. However, my considering the P238 and Mustang has me thinking about going back primarily to 1911 style pistols for CCW. I love 1911s, always have. Other than CZ 75 based pistols, I shoot full sized and Commander sized 1911s better than any other handgun I've ever shot (they fit my hand perfectly). I'd have to retrain, but how long would it really take until I was ready to go back, probably not all that long. While it is one more thing that can go wrong, training can mostly alleviate that issue. At this point, the investment would be the main thing keeping me from switching. I have all I need for my current carry philosophy. If I switch, I'd get the Mustang or P238 as a .380, but I'd also need/want a 3" (probably .40S&W with that short a barrel, but maybe .45ACP since with modern ammo they are probably more likely to penetrate and expand out of short barrels than they once were) and probably a 9mm Micro-1911 to "replace" the P290RS for when my S&W 1911SC (Commander size) was too big. I'd still keep the P01 for when I wanted more capacity, and probably the M&P40c since no 1911 can quite fill its niche with its combination of size and capacity. Ah, decisions, decisions.

 

[Edcnh]

I have a Smith & Wesson Bodygaurd 380 which I will use for pocket carry in the summer. I was surprised at the accuracy in the 10-12 yd range. I will use Federal HST for carry ammo.

 

[sgt127]

I'm really big on a DAO for a pocket gun. So, the Remington gets points for that.

I carry a 1911 at work, and love me some SA goodness. But pocket carry? Not so much.

They're all good guns on your list.

 

[chicharrones]

I
So, advantages/disadvantages:
-RM380: . . . For cons, I don't like that the trigger breaks all the way to the rear (what if I'm wearing gloves) and the sights are the least usable of the three.

Yep, that trigger break is most noticeable if shooting it along side other guns. Particularly single action guns, including semi-cocked guns like Glocks.

For the RM380 I just aim the gun and pull the trigger through quickly. The trigger break happens easily if one isn't trying to bullseye target shoot with it. It's when you try and stage the trigger and anticipate the trigger break to shoot small groups . . . well, let's just say this gun isn't meant to do that. It can be done, but it's not that type of gun. By getting the DAO and true double strike capability, you get the RM380s trigger as the compromise.

You also mentioned shooting and drawing with your weak hand. The ambi mag release of the RM380 would play well with that, if that matters any.

Like you, I too prefer double action or "near double" action type carry guns. My RM380 is virtually tied with my Taurus 85UL (edit: and CZ PCR) in ease of use and reliability. The RM is a little easier to pocket and holds more ammo, though.

 

[chaim]

chicharrones, is that a .32 or .380 NAA Guardian. I used to have a .32ACP NAA Guardian, and I sometimes consider getting another, even though if I do, it will just be for fun at the range (at short ranges). I'm jealous on the PCR, when I got my P01 I would have preferred a PCR but they were harder to find and I gave up and got the P01.

 

[chicharrones]

chicharrones, is that a .32 or .380 NAA Guardian.

.32 ACP, that's why it's so s m all.

 

[chicharrones]

By the way, my RM380's trigger is much better than my Guardian's trigger. Both have long pulls due to the DAO, but the RM380 is smoother and feels lighter.

 

[jdc1244]

(If you don't like long posts, go ahead and skip this intro and skip to "Criteria" and "...the guns...").

Quite a while ago I ruled out small .380s. I don't really trust the caliber, especially with the small 9mms out there. They are best as pocket guns, but I carry a lot in my pockets and thus I hate pocket carry (where am I going to put the stuff that goes in my right pocket when the left is already full).

So, while checking out holsters for my new S&W M&P40c, I came across the Sneaky Pete holster.

It is one of those hide in plain sight type concealment holsters. Kind of like a nicer, leather, fanny pack. It is supposed to mimic a phone case or small tablet case. To those who know what they are looking at (cops and CCWers) it screams gun, but to the average person (and probably the average bad guy) they have no idea what they are looking at. I hate fanny packs, but a nice leather belt pouch, well, I started thinking.

They have to be big enough to cover the gun, so I figured one for the M&P40c, or even for my SIG P290RS would probably be just plain too big. Even for a small .380 it may be a bit large, but the combination will probably work. I may not want a small .380 as a primary or pocket carried, but as a backup and carried outside a pocket, why not? Of course, if I decide against the Sneaky Pete, even in a standard tuckable IWB holster, these small .380s will disappear (my primary will be strong side, so maybe put the .380 weak side or AIWB).

How often will I carry a backup? Probably not much, but it will be nice to be able to. Admittedly, I'll probably use it mostly as a range toy.

Criteria:
It must have usable sights. I'd prefer a DA/SA or DAO (manual safety or not doesn't matter, I wouldn't use it) rather than a SAO with manual safety. I know many don't have a last shot hold open feature, I wish my LCP did, so it is a preferred feature but not necessary. Given what it would cost to get a laser for my existing LCP, or to replace it with a S&W Bodyguard, I don't want to spend too much. Since most of its use will be at the range, something a little more comfortable than the LCP would be nice (but not needed).

So, the guns (more or less in the order I'm considering)...

1) Keep my Ruger LCP. I don't like it much and I had put it for sale. My biggest issue with it is the nearly non-existent sights. So, by spending $80-200 (depending up the brand) I can get a laser and improve practical accuracy greatly. However, I don't love the idea of relying on a laser sight (Murphy's Law) plus it would add bulk to the gun. To be a bit more comfortable at the range, I'd add a Hogue grip sleeve.

2) S&W Bodyguard .380. They actually have decent sights despite being a pocket gun, and they have one with the laser built in without adding much bulk. With the rebate they are pretty cheap right now, and considering that I can sell the LCP for around $150 plus the added cost of the laser in order to keep the LCP, it won't cost much more money to get the Bodyguard (probably close to a wash).

3) Kahr CW380

Or I may go a little larger (probably with a tuckable IWB/AIWB only) and go with:

4) Kahr CT380

5) Bersa Thunder .380. I used to have one, it wasn't a bad gun, just a little large for a .380. However, that means it is more comfortable to shoot and gives quicker follow up shots than the pocket .380s.


I'd love to get the SIG P238 or one of the 1911 based .380s, but I prefer a DA first shot as my "manual" safety and don't really want to spend the money. Maybe in the future (just for fun). If I was to spend in the $600+ range on a gun right now, I'd rather spend a little more and get my 1st 10mm (1911 type probably) or a 3" S&W 686 Plus, though it is possible I might be convinced.


I am open to suggestions (keep in mind decent sights and some comfort at the range are probably my #1 and #2 criteria).

You should pass on the Kahr CT380.

Mine has been unreliable depending on ammo; I’ve yet to find anything it reliably likes.

Pity, because it’s otherwise a nice gun – great trigger, attractive lines, easy to conceal, seems well-made, until it becomes a jam-o-matic.

 

[Armored farmer]

...no help from me. I'm sold on the lcp.
It carries so easily. Hits what I shoot at. Never misfires.

 

[MedWheeler]

I was going to take advantage of a recent $199 sale at Bass Pro on the Rugers, but they were sold out before I got a chance. While waiting for some new ones to come in, I stumbled across a Taurus TCP (PT738) in a pawn shop. I am aware of the TCP's spotty reputation, but I also know it's largely confined to the guns made in the first few years of the model, with serial numbers containing either the letter "A" or the letter "B". This one was made in 2016 and its serial number contains the letter "E". I picked it up for a hard-to-resist price and took it out the next day. I was very impressed. It does snap around a bit, but not as hard as I figured it would, given its size and that of my hand. Quite accurate, too, at the limited range at which I tried it. I only ran about 75 rounds through it, of Winchester "Train" 95-grain flat-tipped FMJ. That will be my carry round in the gun. I had no issues at all.

The TCP has already moved into BU role, replacing my Kel-Tec P32, but it does sometimes get moved to "first-up", backed by that same Kel-Tec.

 

[d'zaster]

I my limited experience (P380, G42, PP)......

The Kahr is tiny wth great trigger, match bbl and excellent sights. Comfortable to shoot. My go-to for pocket carry. I had to work the magazine followers so that the slide would lock back after the last round. Note - my 1st P380 had a lot of cycling issues even after extensive break-in and Kahr replaced it. If you hand load, it likes the snappier loads.

G42 - completely reliable with no issues at all so far. Not as accurate as the P380 tho.

Walther PP - The least reliable of the 3. Absolutely lousy sights.