A few weapons and ammo questions

[Aaryq]

Greetings folks. I'm a first-time poster, long time lurker. I have a few questions for you.
Are frangible rounds legal for civilian use?
-How effective are frangible rounds for dropping a human?
What is your favorite caliber for home defense (and don't say 9mm I STRONGLY DISLIKE 9MM)
What is your favorite gun type (autoloader, revolver, pump shotgun, etc)
What is your favorite bullet type for home defense (hollow point, hydrashok, FMJ, etc)

I'm buying my first gun in a few weeks (I have more back in ND, but I'm a Marine in CA). I want to get something that I will enjoy shooting but my wife will be able to shoot without being too scared by the noise or recoil (she's never touched a gun in her life). My budget is kind of small, with a cap of $650 max. What do you recomend?

 

[boerseun]

I'm buying my first gun in a few weeks (I have more back in ND, but I'm a Marine in CA). I want to get something that I will enjoy shooting but my wife will be able to shoot without being too scared by the noise or recoil (she's never touched a gun in her life). My budget is kind of small, with a cap of $650 max. What do you recomend?

Glock 19, Springfield XD 9mm Compact.
Best is to take your wife to a range that rents guns. Have her try a few and see what she feels comfortable with.

Personally, I carry 9mm and have it for HD. Load up hydrashocks and don't feel undergunned.

 

[SoCalShooter]

target shooting? get a Ruger MKIII 5 1/2in bull barrel .22lr

 

[Aaryq]

I want a home defense gun that will have a secondary purpose for a target shooter.

 

[joab]

A good major name 9mm that fits your hand and lifestyle

I don't like Rugers but many do

I like S&W but many don't

Can't go wrong with a Beretta but some say you can

I won't even start with Taurus

For every gun recommended there will be post condeming that choice

Just my opinion
Find a gun that fits and then research that gun or guns if the selction process leaves many

 

[MrDig]

If you don't like 9mm then the felt recoil of most of the recommended weapons will be much greater. Unless of course you shoot them from a platform (Design) that is ungainly and awkward for self defense uses.
A 10mm or 40 s&w would be good choices for calibers that are not 9mm
38sp/.357 would be another choice.
When teaching a new shooter I generaly want to give them a positive experience at hitting the target so I start with a 22lr and move up to a 9mm.
Your wife will appreciate the 9 more than you as it it is easier to shoot and easier to control.
If a 22lr is not available then the 9mm would actually be a good caliber to start her on. Probably not what you wanted to hear but sorry that is my opinion.
"What is your favorite caliber for home defense (and don't say 9mm I STRONGLY DISLIKE 9MM)"

I own two (2) 9mm one HiPower copy and one clone and a GP100 6in .357 revolver

"What is your favorite gun type (autoloader, revolver, pump shotgun, etc)"

I have Semi-Auto, Pump, and an O/U shotguns. Semi Auto, Bolt action,lever action rifles and the handguns mentioned above

"What is your favorite bullet type for home defense (hollow point, hydrashok, FMJ, etc)"

Hollow Points, and or what is available at the moment, If I have to shoot Mr.BadGuy with a wad cutter I will.

 

[Aaryq]

I was actually thinking .40 S&W for an autoloader. My father has one he carries as his service pistol for his Sheriff's department. I've shot it before and it's pretty sweet. Do you think an autoloader would be good to start my wife on? She said she doesn't want a revolver for HD because they take too long to reload...if you're in an all out shootout in your home...heh. Oh well, I like autoloaders and revolvers equally. What caliber would you recomend for a revolver?

 

[CountGlockula]

Not sure about frangeible rounds...don't know what that is.

What is your favorite caliber for home defense (and don't say 9mm I STRONGLY DISLIKE 9MM)
What is your favorite gun type (autoloader, revolver, pump shotgun, etc)
What is your favorite bullet type for home defense (hollow point, hydrashok, FMJ, etc)

Favorite caliber: anything above .40 cal.
Semi-auto.
Hollow point or silver tip. FMJ is not good for home defense; only for military and range time.

For a revolver, go try out a Ruger. They are awesome.

 

[Axman]

.357 magnum, you can use .38 specials for target shooting.

 

[Geronimo45]

Are frangible rounds legal for civilian use?
Yes, unless you're in New Jersey - could be a problem in NYC, too.

-How effective are frangible rounds for dropping a human?
Frangible meaning hollow points? They'll either go into the attacker and expand, sometimes not exiting said attacker's body, or go through pretty much like FMJ. Generally speaking, it should be about as good or better than FMJ.

What is your favorite caliber for home defense (and don't say 9mm I STRONGLY DISLIKE 9MM)
Pistol caliber: .32 ACP for the apartment (the gun that's always with me) and .45 ACP for midnight visitors/when I have the time to grab it.
Rifle caliber: Don't have a .223, but I think it would be a good caliber.

What is your favorite gun type (autoloader, revolver, pump shotgun, etc)
Autoloader, be it a rifle or handgun. Rapid fire, generally more capacity.
I'd prefer an AR in .223 to a handgun - but the budget won't allow it.
Shotguns... there are short shotguns, but I've grown up with big ones that seemed about as long as a boarding pike. They are extremely useful for varmint/bird/snake control, and I'm sure it's a good choice for HD. Most folks go with a pump, but you could get a semi.

What is your favorite bullet type for home defense (hollow point, hydrashok, FMJ, etc)
FMJ for the .32, probably any name-brand HPs for the .45 (Gold Dot, Hydrashok, Hornady TAP, to name a few). Some of the results from those have teriffic expansion (some expand to around .70)
This site has some info on hollowpoints and how they perform in various calibers:
http://www.brassfetcher.com

 

[High Planes Drifter]

I like a .45 for self defense. I find practice ammo reasonably priced, and I like a heavy round for defense. I recomend you take a look at different .45 semi auto's. There are many quality .45 auto's available for under $650.00. I would recomend an AR carbine, but I dont know if you will find one in your budget.

Of course, a pump action shottie is always a fine choice at a low price.

 

[Leanwolf]

AARYQ - "... I want to get something that I will enjoy shooting but my wife will be able to shoot without being too scared by the noise or recoil (she's never touched a gun in her life)."

Therein lies the problem.

There is no such thing, in my opinion, as a"do-it-all" handgun for both you and your wife, given what you wrote above.

If your wife has never touched a handgun before, would be scared by noise and recoil, etc., then it is absolutely incumbent on you to start her off on a .22 L.R. handgun. Revolver, preferably, then, if she absolutely has to have a semi-automatic, AFTER LEARNING SAFETY AND HANDGUN FUNDAMENTALS, switch her to a semi-auto .22 handgun. More practice, more safety and fundamentals instruction, etc.

After that, move her up to a .38 Sp., or, the dreaded "9mm."

THEN... let her select a handgun that feels right for her hand.

If she presently wants a semi-auto because it "holds more rounds," and a revolver is "harder to reload," then that appears to me to be the mindset of someone who thinks, "spray & pray," or, "hose the foes."

Train her so she thinks "ACCURACY, ACCURACY, ACCURACY."

I suggest a handgun for EACH of you, with each finding the one with which you're the most accurate and comfortable.

Many years ago, when I was first married, my wife, although not anti-gun, was unfamiliar with firearms. The only real guns she'd ever seen were handguns in the holsters of some peace officers out on the street. (This was Los Angeles.)

She wanted to learn to shoot. I had several .22 LR handguns. She began on my S&W K22, then shot my Browning Challenger, Ruger Mark I, and Colt's Woodsman. Over a period of about one year, she fired over three "bricks" of .22 LR ammo. (That was 1,500 rounds which cost no more than $35.00.)

Safety, fundamentals, accuracy became second nature. Plus, familiarization with the firearm.

I then moved her up to my S&W Combat Materpiece .38 Sp., using target loads. No problem. She was very used to shooting by that time. Later, over the years, she shot ALL my handguns, semi-autos and revolvers. She came to prefer revolvers.

At the gun store, she liked the feel of a S&W 36 3inch Heavy Barrel .38 Sp., for her purse. Her favorite for beside the bed was my Ruger Security Six .357 Mag., with Herrett grips I reformed to fit her hand.

I had other .38s and .357 Mags but that was the one she liked. Fine with me. That's what she wanted.

I honestly believe if I'd tried to start her on heavier recoiling handguns, she'd not ever have become as proficient as she is today.

I've also seen innumerable times where women and men, unfamiliar with handguns, have had great difficulty with .38 Sp. and 9mm, and .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. These were people who were going through a major non-Federal peace officer Academy who HAD to qualify to finish the Academy. Some would barely, barely squeak by and some would have to remediate... or drop out of the Academy.

Sooooo, I say again, my opinion, but start her off with a .22 LR handgun.

Good luck.

L.W.

 

[Gord]

You want a gun that your wife can shoot, one that you can use as a target/plinking gun, but which is still adequate for home defense... and you don't like the 9mm.

Only thing I can think of that fits this criteria is a DA/SA .357 Mag revolver. Load her up with .357 Mag hollowpoints and you've got a decent home-defense gun; pop in some Winchester White Box .38s and you can plink.

Does your wife want to learn how to operate and shoot the gun(s) in question, or is it going to be a shoot-a-box-of-rounds, stick-it-in-the-sock-drawer affair for her?

If I were you, I'd go get a shotgun for home defense - Big 5 has the Remington 870 HD model on sale for $329 all the time. Mossberg 500s (or Mavericks, I'm not sure which) can be had for $239, but the pump on the Mossberg is further up than the 870's and makes it hard for me to hold the gun comfortably. Might be a good idea to take the wife along and see which she prefers.

For plinking, and to start your wife out, get a .22. If she doesn't want to learn (even on a .22) you might consider taking another look at the 9mm as ammo is far more economical than .40 or .45. You can get a Ruger along with the shotgun and still be within your budget, I think.

If you really don't want a 9mm (and assuming your wife doesn't care) then get the shotgun (one of those things every guy should own, just like pickup trucks ) and pick up a Ruger .45, but be prepared to spend twice as much on ammo.

Oh yeah, one last thing - thank you for your service, sir.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

-How effective are frangible rounds for dropping a human?
What is your favorite caliber for home defense (and don't say 9mm I STRONGLY DISLIKE 9MM)
What is your favorite gun type (autoloader, revolver, pump shotgun, etc)
What is your favorite bullet type for home defense (hollow point, hydrashok, FMJ, etc)

I'm buying my first gun in a few weeks (I have more back in ND, but I'm a Marine in CA). I want to get something that I will enjoy shooting but my wife will be able to shoot without being too scared by the noise or recoil (she's never touched a gun in her life). My budget is kind of small, with a cap of $650 max. What do you recomend?

-Frangible rounds: In a pistol caliber I wouldn't bother. Some rounds fragment by design (hopefully) like .223
-Favorite HD caliber: 12 gauge #4 buck or bigger (usually 00). For a pistol: .45
-Favorite type: I like them all. Depends on what you plan on using it for.
-Favorite bullet type for HD- 00 buck for a shotgun, HP for pistol (golden saber, gold dot, ranger, hydra-shok are my 4 favorites that I can afford. CorBon DPX if money is no object)

If you are in CA that pretty much rules out an AR or AK. A Remington 870 12 gauge is a great HD weapon but your wife will definitely not like shooting it. It sounds like you are leaning towards a pistol. If you don't want 9mm that leaves .40s&w and up which are all rounds with some recoil to them.
I'd get a Glock 23 and an Advantage Arms .22 conversion kit. The kit is $250 so that will limit you to a used G23 (unless you find a great deal on a new one) but I wouldn't have any problems buying a used Glock.
Start her out with the .22 kit and let her build confidence and accuracy. When she's ready you can drop the .40s&w barrel in it and let her play with that. If you start her out on a .40 I have a feeling she'll develop a nasty flinch and probably a distaste for shooting.
The upside is you get 2 calibers on the same platform, and since it's essentially the same gun, you have the same trigger, grip angle, sight picture, etc. so she'll be familiar with it's operation (plus .22's are a lot of fun to shoot and cheap as well) and won't be afraid of it since she knows she can shoot well with it.

 

[boerseun]

I like the last suggestion of a .22 kit and a Glock. I'm not a .40 ShortandWeak fan, but it is a good round.

 

[dogtown tom]

Try this:


In my latest CDNN catalog:
.40 FN Hi Power $399 (They may still be "on sale" @ $369)
.40 Stoeger (Beretta) Cougar $299

I'm sure somewhere nearby you there is a store that sells Ruger or Browning .22 pistols. You can't go wrong with either, and they will last a lifetime. If you buy new expect to pay $250 or so.

I'm a little confused about one thing... you mention that this is your FIRST gun, then you say you have more back in North Dakota? Why not ship them to yourself?

 

[crebralfix]

You asked: 9mm. It's just fine; the difference between the various "defensive" calibers is minimal.

Any handgun bullet fired in anger should be accompanied by several of its brothers...it's called "teamwork"

***

9mm should be just spiffy for the wife given the recoil constraints. 45 ACP is probably fine given it's "push" rather than "snap" recoil.

***

Remember, $650 should include a spare magazine carrier, a total of 5 magazines, and holster. Why not get a used handgun? You should be able to find a used Glock or XD for around $400. CDNN Investments offers a variety of used handguns. Aimsurplus.com has SIG P225s for $369 (9mm) and CZ-82s in 9x18mm for $210. You could get an AK-47 for $320 along with that and still be under budget.

I've seen new S&W revolvers in 357 magnum for around $400. A new Model 10 runs $458 at impactguns.com.

http://www.summitgunbroker.com/ has the best deals. S&W Model 65s run $255. S&W 99's for <400. They even have a Glock 29 for $475 (10mm)!

 

[ForeverArmed]

Hello aaryq,

Greetings folks. I'm a first-time poster, long time lurker. I have a few questions for you.
Are frangible rounds legal for civilian use?

I think they are in most places, but you might have to check local laws, etc.

-How effective are frangible rounds for dropping a human?

I'm not sure because it probably depends on how easily they break up. If the breakup occurs after sufficient penetration has already occurred (as with the 5.56 round, even if non-frangible), then the effect could be devastating. But I think the only way to be sure would be to see some test results with ballistic gelatin, after-action autopsy reports, etc. It's probably better to stick with non-frangible in the absence of more info.

What is your favorite caliber for home defense (and don't say 9mm I STRONGLY DISLIKE 9MM)

For rifles: .223/5.56
For shotguns: 00 Buck
For handguns: .45 ACP or .357 Mag

What is your favorite gun type (autoloader, revolver, pump shotgun, etc)

Semi-auto rifles

What is your favorite bullet type for home defense (hollow point, hydrashok, FMJ, etc)

Hollow points or hydrashoks are probably best. FMJ is okay in some calibers (e.g., .45 or .223/5.56), but HP is better.

 

[shc1]

My carry gun has been a .357 revolver for some time now.
I shoot .38 special or reloaded .357 (reduced load) for practice or plinking.
.38 Plus-P isn’t all that bad as far as recoil goes. .357 out of a two inch barrel has a bit of sting to it but nothing like the sting on the receiving end.

 

[sacp81170a]

Why not get a used handgun?

+1. You can get a nice refurbished Sig if you can find a dealer in used LEO firearms. Glocks will occasionally be available also, if you can live with not having a light rail on some of the Gen 2's that have been turned in. In my area, I can get a Glock 22 (.40 cal.) for about $450 with 3 LE mags, or a Sig 226 in .40 cal. for about $550. Personally, I'd go with a Glock and use the other $200 to buy a used Mossy or Remington pump. Gives you both something you can use.

 

[RNB65]

What is your favorite caliber for home defense (and don't say 9mm I STRONGLY DISLIKE 9MM)

12GA

What is your favorite gun type (autoloader, revolver, pump shotgun, etc)

Shotgun, any type.

What is your favorite bullet type for home defense (hollow point, hydrashok, FMJ, etc)

00Buck

I want to get something that I will enjoy shooting but my wife will be able to shoot without being too scared by the noise or recoil (she's never touched a gun in her life).

Unfortunately, a compact sized 9mm like a Glock 19, Springfield XD, or CZ RAMI is exactly what you are seeking. Easy enough for the wife to shoot and with +P JHP ammo more than adequate for personal defense.

Take a look at a .357mag wheel gun such as the S&W 686 or Ruger GP100. The wifey can shoot .38special ammo at the range and you can load up with full power .357mag ammo for defense.

 

[BruceB]

Has no one heard of the KISS principle?

NO novice should be started on autoloaders if the gun might be required for serious business in the very near future...like tomorrow night or next week.

For the amount of money available, I would buy TWO used Smith and Wesson revolvers, and both should fit into the stated budget with some shopping.

The guns would be a 4" Model 15 in .38 Special, and a 4" Model 18 in .22 Long Rifle. These guns are IDENTICAL except for caliber! Size, weight, sights, triggers, everything is the same. Any skill and knowledge gained with the .22 will immediately serve just as well on the .38. One holster fits both guns. Speedloaders are available for both. There are some very effective .38 loads available, so don't sneer at it. Even the .22 will serve for defense if necessary, but the .38 is far better (of course). The .22 shines because it won't intimidate the new shooter, and is fun and inexpensive to shoot a LOT.

Buying a Model 19 instead of the M15 will gain the use of the .357 cartridge as well as .38 Special, but that is a very limited gain in this case because factory-level .357s are NASTY for a novice...and for a lot of non-novices, too, if they'd just admit it. The 19 will likely cost a good bit more than a 15, as well.

There are still several niches where good revolvers fit perfectly, and this particular situation is a prime example.

Yes, I do carry autoloaders for in-town concealed carry(9mm or .45), but I wouldn't feel at all compromised if I happened to thread my Model 19 onto my belt, either.

 

[hankdatank1362]

and don't say 9mm I STRONGLY DISLIKE 9MM

I promise you, anyone who has been shot by a 9mm and lived to tell about it would strongly dislike 9mm too. The actual effectiveness of 9mm versus .40, .45, what have you, is so microscopic that it doens't really matter much, as long as you do your part with shot placement. Hell, don't forget that we've had several LEO's killed by .22LR.

 

[MNgoldenbear]

my $.02

Used .357 revolver and 20 ga. pump. I think you still might be able to swing both for under your budget (again, would need to be used to stay low in price).

I know you said she doesn't want a revolver. You also said she hasn't shot anything at all. When I started shooting, I didn't want a revolver either. Shot a S&W 686 and fell in love with the gun. Now have all manner of arms, but a reasonable quality .357 revolver will have more versatility than just about any other handgun. Start with light target .38 loads -- really light wadcutter loads can feel almost like a .22 -- and work up. As to speed of a reload, train with speed loaders. Besides, how many rounds do you need out of the handgun? In home defense, you use it to fight your way to your long gun anyway!

The 20 ga. is supposed to be about as effective as a 12 ga. in defense applications. I only have 12s, and can handload extra light target ammo for breaking in a newbie, but I think you'd be well served by the 20 ga., especially if you don't have time/equipment to load down.

These are relatively simple firearms to operate safely and accurately (given a little time and training -- training and practice are absolutely necessary, not just nice if you get around to it). Very important features for personal defense, and especially so for newer shooters.

This being said, my normal carry gun is a GL-19 (a dreaded wonder-nine! ). I sometimes bring along the GL-30 for slightly larger hole potential. I'd like to carry my 686, but it's a bit large/heavy for all day concealed use. For the house, Rem 870 12ga, 20"RS bbl, tactical (light) 00 buck with slugs available.

 

[Soybomb]

I think you need to read this first http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm