A friend and I had legally carried firearms confiscated tonight

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First post says,
They eventually cited us on a state law, Class 1 Misdemeanor.
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If I read this correctly, they were detained, disarmed, weapons confiscated, charged with a Class 1 Misdemeanor, and released with a pending court date.

Scott
 
OK, I have a couple of questions to toss around here, theoretically of course.

First, if you saw a guy with a gun in a holster, openly carried, in a state where this was legal, would you pay him any more or less attention than someone of similar appearance who does not have a gun on display?

Second, at what point do supporters of open carry feel comfortable drawing the line? For example, if the guy was carrying open without a holster (mexican style) would that bother you?

What if he had his hand on the grip of the gun?

What if he had it unholstered, holding it in plain view, but keeping it pointed in a safe direction?

It would seem the 2nd amendment would allow for bearing arms in these ways also, wouldnt it?

I think the argument over open v. concealed carry boils down to what your threshold of acceptable is on a continuum between concealed carry and walking around with the gun in your hand.
 
I think the argument over open v. concealed carry boils down to what your threshold of acceptable is on a continuum between concealed carry and walking around with the gun in your hand.
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I don't think that's true. I think most jurisdictions have a law regarding "brandishing," which my dictionary says is:
1. To wave or flourish (a weapon, for example) menacingly.
2. To display ostentatiously.
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I think it would be hard to argue that an affirmative action, like taking your gun out and holding it in your hand, would not fall into this definition.

Scott
 
So do you think brandishing laws are un-Constitutional?

The 2nd amendment says I can keep and bear arms, and doesn't say it has to be in a non-ostentatious manner.

Understand I am not talking about making threats or acting in a menacing manner. The guy is just strolling down the road, smiling, whistling, smelling the roses, holding his gun in his hand keeping it pointed in a safe direction with his finger off the trigger.
 
Lone_Gunman
To me the issue here should not be how it makes others feel
It should simply be a matter of what is legal, nothing more. If someone feels threatened they have a right to call the cops. If I'm walking a pet Chiuaua and it makes some one nervous they have a right to call 911. It's up to the police to determine if there is a crime and act accordingly. He can give me a lecture on having dangerous animals in public if he wants, but if there is no crime there is no crime, end of encounter. He certainly would not have the legal standing to confiscate my mutt.
If you or anybody else feels that they should cover up then by all means do so those that don't feel that need should not be force to or demonized because they choose to take advantage of a law in their favor.
 
So do you think brandishing laws are un-Constitutional?

The 2nd amendment says I can keep and bear arms, and doesn't say it has to be in a non-ostentatious manner.

Understand I am not talking about making threats or acting in a menacing manner. The guy is just strolling down the road, smiling, whistling, smelling the roses, holding his gun in his hand keeping it pointed in a safe direction with his finger off the trigger.
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Scott (standing on the shore, waving and watching as this thread starts to sail off toward nonsense-land...waving...waving...)
 
Why should the situation I described not be legal?
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Scott is not the final arbiter of justice. Scott is not the law. The law in some places state that individual may op[en carry. If the people of the state are inclined to be alarmed, they should pass a law to make it illegal. And that would be another matter entirely.

I did not notice anywhere that any of us said brandishing should be legal, nor was anyone brandishing a gun. What we have here is an arguement over whether or not it is proper for an individual to exercise a right guaranteed by the Bill Of Rights, and also affirmed by the state law in which an individual resides.

As for the question, another person's rights end where they begin to infringe on mine.
If I see a person with a gun, many things are then taken into account. Manner of carry, manner of dress, time of day, place of occurence, number of people present, maner and mannerisms of said individual, and any other circumstances which may have bearing on the situation. Under certain circumstances, I may hunker down next to the guy and draw my own weapon. I may shoot him. I may yell at him to drop the weapon. It depends entirely on the circumstances, as interpreted through the filter of my experience and training.
Most places I know of do not permit brandishing. However, I will not always have the totality of facts in any given event, and therefore must react according to those facts I do have.
That said, nobody was brandishing, according to the story we were given. It may be 100% truth, or it could be 100% fiction, or anywhere betwee. This being the high road, I tend to take folks at their word. I realize this may seem strange to some, but that's my choice.
 
Understand I am not talking about making threats or acting in a menacing manner. The guy is just strolling down the road, smiling, whistling, smelling the roses, holding his gun in his hand keeping it pointed in a safe direction with his finger off the trigger
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In my experience and training, that would indicate something off kilter. I don't know of anywhere this would be legal. I would probably take cover and contact the local PD, who hopefully would be informed as to local and state law.
 
Scott is correct in his assessment of the situation.

If I read this correctly, they were detained, disarmed, weapons confiscated, charged with a Class 1 Misdemeanor, and released with a pending court date.
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I emailed with the President of VCDL and talked to him on the phone this morning. He called the PD and informed them of the specifics of the law in question.

Will and I went to the PD tonight and collected our weapons. The officer apologized and also gave us a bit of a lecture on the intelligence of open carry. He said he's a NRA member, 2A supporter and shooter, but never open carries when not in uniform because it just plain freaks people out. He seemed like a nice guy who just screwed up.

I was happy to call it a day and get the charges dropped and my property returned. It turns out he didn't even file any paperwork "because he wanted to research the law more thoroughly"...not sure how much of that had to do with the VCDL talking to his commanding officers, but I got the sense that he was genuinely trying to look out for us.

(oh and the legal fees: I have a line of credit, and I was prepared to sell my firearms, knives, etc. If it came to it I would have asked my parents for a loan with a full intent to pay them back with interest. Gladly, it didn't happen like that).

Oh, and it was a citizen with a cell phone who called us in, not Starbucks. Apparently they didn't care so much, but the officer said some woman was SHRIEKING at him when he pulled up "THERE THEY ARE, THEY'LL SEE YOU!!!" :banghead:

So in my book, all's well that ends well. Except how my parents are ahem, politely requesting, that while they are paying for my college, I should sell all my guns. I can buy as many as I want after I graduate, of course. But that's a whole other can of worms, and since they stuck by me with this I'm willing to do as they ask. (I can still shoot my roomies' guns ;))
 
The officer apologized and also gave us a bit of a lecture on the intelligence of open carry.
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Maybe you should have given him a bit of alecture on knowing his job and the responsibilities that it entails.

Legislators make the laws Jurists interpret the laws and cops enforce the laws, shrieking women are nowhere in the mix
 
Sell all your guns? Time to move out and cut bait.

Sorry, I have no patience for parents who try to put my ownership of firearms in the closet. I have three of what I call "non-negotiables":

1) My sexuality. I will not put my partner in the closet and myself in the closet for ANYONE. It's one thing to not talk about something, it's another to totally cut off your relationships and lie about it.

2) My partner. Same as 1) above. My parents tried to play the game with me saying that if I "turn straight" and give him up, they'll pay for my college. What I let loose with was a string of profanities aimed at them and hung up the phone. Needless to say they called back and apoligized, and I told them that if they EVER pulled that ever again, I'd change my name, eventually my address, and just disappear from their lives. They wouldn't pay for my college, though. My question to the married people in this thread: Would you give up the one you love the most for college being paid for? I don't think you would.

3) My guns. Had a few small conflicts with my current room mate over this. Now he's as much as gun nut as I am. Basically, I was paying most of the rent while he was getting back on his feet, and he made it a slight issue over my handling of my firearms. I told him that when he actually takes NRA courses in personal protection and home defense, he can talk to me about my handling afterwards. He agreed, and he did what I asked in regards to the NRA courses. Now I have yet another Pink Pistol's member in my household. :)
 
My question to the married people in this thread: Would you give up the one you love the most for college being paid for? I don't think you would.
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Not all of us are happily married all the time, ask me next week when she didn't just wreck the cars. Right now I'd trade her for a pack of Kools ( and I hate menthol)
I'm sorry I don't mean to make lite of your post and I agree with and respect your position
 
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VCDL has solved the problem

Sorry if this message is a little out of place chronologically. I wrote hours ago, but go sidetracked and didn't post until after undertoad posted:

I contacted the police today, leaving a message for the captain of the precinct (McGowen) where the arrest occurred. I explained that I was the president of a gun-rights organization and that if he would look at the arrrest report and read the last paragaph in 18.2-287.4, he would realize that two false arrests had been made. I asked that this situation be rectified immediately.

I checked back tonight and the officer that answered the phone (Officer Heenan) said that the charges were being dropped and that the officer would be calling both gentlemen to explain that he had misinterpreted the law!

It is going to be important to get a letter saying that all charges have been dropped and that all arrest records will be expunged. Also, they should get their guns back immediately - any delays would be unacceptable.

VCDL will be following up with the police chief to see that he educates ALL of his officers on this law, so that there are no more false arrests.

Once this has been completely settled, I will put out a VA-ALERT to VCDL's 3,000 member VA-ALERT list and let the world know about this incident and its resolution.

VA-ALERT is free and you can join/unjoin at will on VCDL's web site - www.vcdl.org
 
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What angers me the most is the broad on the cell phone.

She went and told all her friends she stopped a crime before it happend.
Or some story like that, and now she is the envey of her bridge club.
The police should call her up and say thank you for bieng a tippster but it was w/in the rights of the law for them to open carry.
jmo
 
Congratulations to our young heros, who have had one pass close enough to hear it whistle. Time for some serious PR in VA, billboards and radio spots: the cops, being an organized body with reason to know the law, will learn quickly but the public...may need a bit more help.

You know, I was thinking the "walking along the road, smiling, holding a gun in a safe manner" thought-experiment mentioned in this thread was indeed fantasy-land...until it occurred to me that weekend before last, I was doing just that! It was a parking lot at the State Fairgrounds rather than a road, but public space in the exact manner of a road, and me with a smile on my lips and handgun in hand.

I'd purchased a gun (a lovely and highly conspicuous chrome-slide Star BKS, with pearl-grey anodized frame and hardwood grips, oooo*) at the gun show, and they don't let you walk out with it in a brown paper bag. Nope -- nice man at the door looks at your purchase, sees it has an intact "sold" sticker and the description/serial matches your receipt, and you march out with the firearm in plain sight. It's not a big deal. Despite a multitude of other events happening on the fairgrounds, blissninnies are not darting around in wild-eyed alarm, pestering 911 operators with calls.

Now, I know we don't have an oversupply of common sense in my state (the legislature once tried to set pi to 3, and then 3.2!**). So I kind of suspect it's that folks are pretty much used to seeing happy gunnies, purchase in hand, sauntering across the lots at the fairgrounds at least four weekends a year. So it could be that the notion of open carry as a way to get the disarmed to not panic at the mere sight of guns has some merit, ya think?

--Herself
____________________________
* Hey, it's a matter of personal taste, okay? :)
** The higher figure is silly, but not as dumb as it looks: it would have applied to round barns, to determine the square footage for property-tax assement. Round barns being historic and all, the measure was laughed down.
 
Why should the situation I described not be legal? I don't think you can think of a reason... but you might surprise me.
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Did Herself suprise you Gunman? And will you admit it? :scrutiny: Or are you going to keep arguing just to argue? :)



And people wonder why the shooting community is so male-dominated. :rolleyes:
 
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