A good reason for revolver

[Smaug]

As a revolver fan and hand-loader; I note with mild disappointment that the Autoloader subforum is about 3X as popular as the revolver sub.

I just got the latest issue of Concealed Carry magazine that is included with USCCA membership. (my first issue) The cover story is about a couple who answered the door to a guy who "needed gas." After talking to him through the door, the man said: "Hang on while I get pants on." He also got his CCW, an automatic Taurus of some kind, but didn't rack one into the pipe.

Anyway, as he was walking out to get gas with the guy after getting his wife inside, he asked the guy to back off a bit. (as he suspected something was off) The perp turned as if to comply, but kept turning until he was facing our man again. He had pulled a 22 pistol out of his pocket and shot the guy twice; once in the shoulder and once in the left wrist. Our man fell down in all the excitement and the perp thought he was dead.

He went in the house and started pushing the wife around. Their dog came up and started tearing up his legs; allowing the woman to run into the bedroom. (where she was preparing the pump shotgun for her hubby) Our man got up and knew it was time to shoot that perp. He went to rack the slide to chamber one realized he couldn't, as his other wrist was broken from being shot. The article didn't say how our man got the slide racked.

Putting aside the fact that he should have had a round in the pipe, a revolver is sure a good option when you're a bit weak (limp wrist or elbow) or beat-up.

Full disclosure: although the 6 rounds took down the perp and made him drop his gun, our man wished for more ammo. He took the perp's 22 and shot the perp in the head to make sure he wouldn't be able to come after him and his wife again. That would have gotten him in a world of trouble if he were in a place like Maryland, Illinois or California instead of Florida.

The police thanked him and made him an honorary deputy, as they were sure he saved a bunch of police. The perp seemed to be setting up to make a last stand in our man's driveway, having laid out a bunch of guns on top of the car...

Their dog Ryder got a steak dinner when our man got out of the hospital, and is now a bit more protective of them. It's worth noting that if they didn't have a dog, the perp and woman would have still been close enough to the perp that our man wouldn't have been able to take a shot and it might've ended very differently.

What I think of this for now is:

• I'm going to stick with a revolver for my CCW, as I think the odds of needing more than 5 rounds are less than having to shoot from compromised positions or when crippled.
• I need to get a dog; one that's a bit defensive. Something like a Doberman or a Pitbull mix, maybe. My wife and daughters will do a lot less good with a gun than a dog would do them when I'm not there.

What are your thoughts? Taking your chances with the auto in exchange for more firepower or revolver for simplicity and not relying on needing two hands or stiff joints to work properly?

 

[murf]

rack the slide on your heel.

murf

 

[unclenunzie]

In general, close contact emergency is exactly why I recently added a pocket revolver to my CCW regimen, along with whatever is on my hip. I personally think an airweight J frame, LCR, or equivalent is ideal for this role.

About a dog - it's a life commitment in my family. I've never picked one for a specific defensive purpose (all are rescues) and all are individuals. But the breed types will bring forward certain traits. Of mine, my Aussie Cattle Dog is not the largest, or the fastest on her legs, but she will not tolerate untrustworthy individuals - and is blindingly fast up close with her teeth. On the other hand, my Cattle Corgi is still a dog, but is unlikely to do much damage except to the hearing

 

[Smaug]

rack the slide on your heel.

Assuming you're talking about using the sights, that won't work with a lot of low profile combat sights...

In general, close contact emergency is exactly why I recently added a pocket revolver to my CCW regimen, along with whatever is on my hip. I personally think an airweight J frame, LCR, or equivalent is ideal for this role.

About a dog - it's a life commitment in my family. I've never picked one for a specific defensive purpose (all are rescues) and all are individuals. But the breed types will bring forward certain traits. Of mine, my Aussie Cattle Dog is not the largest, or the fastest on her legs, but she will not tolerate untrustworthy individuals - and is blindingly fast up close with her teeth. On the other hand, my Cattle Corgi is still a dog, but is unlikely to do much damage except to the hearing

Yeah, I would choose a rescue with certain breed traits. For example, my favorite dog as a pet is probably a Golden Retriever, but they are useless for any kind of defensive or guard duty. The same thing that makes them NOT bite a kid that pulls their tail. I'm thinking anything with a bit of German Sheperd, Doberman, Rottweiler, Pitbull would be fine.

As for the Corgi, a dog that wakes me up is ALSO useful for home defense! (though not as useful as one that would bite the invader, too)

 

[4v50 Gary]

Glad he was able to get the slide rack and engage the perpetrator. Glad his dog had more courage than mine (Sarah was abused by her previous owner and very timid as a result). Glad the wife had the presence of mind to get the shotgun when she had a chance. Glad the perpetrator got to experience the afterlife.

My own carry piece is a Sig P220 in 45 ACP. Same one I carried as a duty sidearm for decades. I should go with a small Glock (G26).

 

[unclenunzie]

Death from below the ankle

 

[murf]

that won't work with a lot of low profile combat sights...

which means it will work with a lot of other sights. something to consider when choosing a ccw autoloader.

luck,

murf

 

[aaaaa]

He took the perp's 22 and shot the gun in the head to make sure he wouldn't be able to come after him and his wife again. That would have gotten him in a world of trouble if he were in a place like Maryland, Illinois or California instead of Florida.

I just read the article last night and am surprised that the USCCA did not put a sidebar discussing the potential ramifications of that head shot. From the article, I assume the perp was still very much a threat at that point and we later find out the perp had an arsenal out at his car, but apparently nothing else on him, though the victim did not know that, so presumably didn't want to be shot in the back while going to rescue his wife.

 

[Slamfire]

It is unfair to apply hindsight bias, and claim, "he should have known", because you know how it turned out. I am sure, if he knew he was going to get shot, he would not have gone outside! At least he did have a firearm on him, but the perp had the drop, and lucky for the home owner, he survived the shooting. That is not always a given.

Would a revolver had made a difference? I am sure a thousand million hypotheticals could be made, one way or another. I like revolvers because they are simple to operate, I have had fewer malfunctions, and it is hard to shoot yourself with a revolver.

 

[bdickens]

What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are this is isn't a good reason to have a revolver.

This is a good reason to
1)DON'T OPEN THE DAMN DOOR FOR STRANGERS!

2) Keep your damn self defense pistol LOADED!

 

[trackskippy]

Carrying an auto with an empty chamber was his problem. Never understood why people will carry an unloaded gun.

The fact that it took 6 rounds for "one" person shows why the high cap autos make more sense than the revolvers. Although youre usually told you should only need 3 rounds for the whole scenario, whatever that is.

Glad the dog was OK too. We have Rotties, and its unlikely youre getting into the house, especially if my wife is in there, with them alive anyway. And god help you if you hurt one of the dogs and she gets ahold of you before the Troopers show up.

 

[aaaaa]

It is unfair to apply hindsight bias, and claim, "he should have known", because you know how it turned out. I am sure, if he knew he was going to get shot, he would not have gone outside! At least he did have a firearm on him, but the perp had the drop, and lucky for the home owner, he survived the shooting. That is not always a given.

Would a revolver had made a difference? I am sure a thousand million hypotheticals could be made, one way or another. I like revolvers because they are simple to operate, I have had fewer malfunctions, and it is hard to shoot yourself with a revolver.

In hindsight, I would say he should not have gone outside. He should have grabbed his gun and made sure it was ready while his wife phones the police. He had signs that something was just not right, such as no way the car could coast all the way up his drive into his yard. Surprised the dog did not give warning barks in the night when the perp arrived and was laying out his arsenel on top of the car.

Note, even after he and the perp were shot and they called 911, it took some 25 minutes for the police to arrive. Of course he is out in the sticks. I live in the city and would hope the police would respond a tad quicker in the city.

 

[upptick]

What I think of this for now is:

• I'm going to stick with a revolver for my CCW, as I think the odds of needing more than 5 rounds are less than having to shoot from compromised positions or when crippled.
• I need to get a dog; one that's a bit defensive. Something like a Doberman or a Pitbull mix, maybe. My wife and daughters will do a lot less good with a gun than a dog would do them when I'm not there.

What are your thoughts? Taking your chances with the auto in exchange for more firepower or revolver for simplicity and not relying on needing two hands or stiff joints to work properly?

I like both my LCR and Smith Airweight 38 but for roughly the same size and weight I can carry more than twice the firepower with my Sig p365 which is skinnier and therefore carries better. I have the model with the thumb safety so I'm okay carrying it fully charged in a pocket holster in my front pocket. I do like the idea of having a revolver loaded and readily accessible in my home, particularly since it can be ready to rock without any tension on any springs and I can easily slip it safely into the back of my pants if I need to answer the door. As to the hound dogs, I prefer those that are "watch" rather than "guard" dogs, i.e. the kind that will bark and raise hell when they hear noise at my door or in the middle of the night but which don't bite or if they do can't cause much harm.

 

[Smaug]

It is unfair to apply hindsight bias, and claim, "he should have known", because you know how it turned out. I am sure, if he knew he was going to get shot, he would not have gone outside! At least he did have a firearm on him, but the perp had the drop, and lucky for the home owner, he survived the shooting. That is not always a given.

Well, my thinking was that if he felt like he should take a gun with him, it should also have been READY. There are people who are so afraid of guns that they don't even have a magazine in it and insist on a manual safety too. Maybe the: "If he hears me cock a gun, he will run." thought.

Would a revolver had made a difference? I am sure a thousand million hypotheticals could be made, one way or another. I like revolvers because they are simple to operate, I have had fewer malfunctions, and it is hard to shoot yourself with a revolver.

Yes, but I'm not talking about all the other hypotheticals. My point was if the guy was in front of him shooting him, while he tried to rack the slide, it would have been a fatal oversight.

My thoughts are this is isn't a good reason to have a revolver.

This is a good reason to
1)DON'T OPEN THE DAMN DOOR FOR STRANGERS!

Yep, but some people are nice and helpful more than cautious and suspicious. Massad Ayoob did a video on this that was very good. His recommendation was: "OK, let me call the police to get you some help." (while backing away from and off to the side of the door, with weapon drawn)

2) Keep your damn self defense pistol LOADED!

Yep.

 

[Smaug]

Surprised the dog did not give warning barks in the night when the perp arrived and was laying out his arsenel on top of the car.

Well, the dog growled when he saw the guy in the driveway. He was not a barker, but a growler and biter. ;-)

I like both my LCR and Smith Airweight 38 but for roughly the same size and weight I can carry more than twice the firepower with my Sig p365 which is skinnier and therefore carries better. I have the model with the thumb safety so I'm okay carrying it fully charged in a pocket holster in my front pocket. I do like the idea of having a revolver loaded and readily accessible in my home, particularly since it can be ready to rock without any tension on any springs and I can easily slip it safely into the back of my pants if I need to answer the door. As to the hound dogs, I prefer those that are "watch" rather than "guard" dogs, i.e. the kind that will bark and raise hell when they hear noise at my door or in the middle of the night but which don't bite or if they do can't cause much harm.

Funny you should mention the P365; I have one of those too, and bought it first. It has more firepower, easier to shoot quickly and is thinner, just as you say. Lately, I find myself carrying the LCR more, though.

One other thing I like about revolvers is that I don't have to worry about bullet setback when I unload it to put it into the safe. That carry ammo can last a good, long time while being loaded/unloaded daily.

 

[aaaaa]

Carrying an auto with an empty chamber was his problem. Never understood why people will carry an unloaded gun.

Excellent point! A gun with a full magazine inserted but an empty chamber is effectively an unloaded gun. However, the authorities don't see it that way so it is still loaded for transportation purposes if one does not have CPL.

 

[unclenunzie]

In a contact situation a revolver is unlikely to be rendered inoperative as compared to an autoloader with the slide pushed out of battery. Also many times in many threads all over The Internet unchambered carry of an autoloader has been discussed. I will not carry unchambered. But I do insist my autoloaders have the common, modern internal safety features.

As nice and friendly and helpful to others you may want to be, opening the door to strangers and accompanying them outside is not a good idea, at least not alone. Through the door, "Oh, hey man that's rough, out of gas. I'll be happy to call you a tow truck, or AAA."

 

[.38 Special]

For the overwhelming majority of self-defense shootings, a revolver is fine. There are situations where the extra capacity of the semi-auto has won civilian gunfights, and if a fellow feels those few incidents are enough to justify the auto over the revolver, then more power to him. (And I say that sincerely, since I have just made the switch myself.)

The auto requires training and practice, though, to include one-handed function drills - and a good case can be made that if you are unable to rack the slide on your belt or other handy object, you need to rearrange things until you can.

For a fellow - or lady - unwilling or unable to go through such training, I think a revolver is a much better plan. I can teach safe and effective DA revolver management to any reasonably competent adult in one day, but have been working on semi-auto manipulation for a couple of months now and still have not reached a level of thorough competence.

 

[bdickens]

Through the door, "Oh, hey man that's rough, out of gas. I'll be happy to call you a tow truck, or AAA."

Strange how when you do that, these people suddenly don't need help any more....

 

[sgt127]

I think I originally posted this about 20 years ago. Not much has changed.


I started out shooting revolvers, years ago. Revolvers are quite reliable. Autos came along and designs improved, bullet shapes improved. The reliabilty of the auto came up to what I felt was the level of a good well maintained revolver. And I carried an auto.


Some random observations I have discovered. Revolvers will occasionally malfunction. So will autos. Lets remove parts breakage from the equation for a bit. I can accept the fact that a high quality auto is just as likely, or unlikey, to break a part that stops the gun from functioning, as an equal quality revolver. I have actually broken more parts in auto's than revolvers, but, I can attribute that to sheer luck. Slide stops have broken, firing pins have broken, but, statistically, I would argue that neither one is likley to just "break" when you need it.


On the few occasions that I have had a revolver stop working, it was a cumalitive effect of shooting. It started to get dirty, crap under the extractor star, the barrel cylinder gap got lead and powder residue, the chambers got sticky from lots of .38's and then having to force a .357 in the chamber. In other words, most of the problems came on slowly. I knew, eventually, the gun was going to stop working. The trigger pull got heavier, it was harder to close the cylinder, something along those lines.


But, for no apparent reason, a clean well lubed auto, would sometimes just not feed, fire or eject a round. Bullet nose caught on the feedramp, empty failed to get out of the way of the next round, some other failure that seemed to occur randomly, and without warning.


Now, standing on the the line, at the range, neither gun failed very often. Nice firm grip, dry hands, locked wrists, all is well in the world of handgunning.


I have a folder of videos from dash and body cams of Officers auto’s jamming. Sometimes, well maintained autos, crap out in the middle of a gunfight. Whats the difference? Weak one handed grip, rolling around on the ground, upside down, shoved against the bad guy, sweaty blood covered hands, whatever. The auto needs a solid platform to work off of. Something it can't get in a real world, up close gunfight.


At a distance, involved in a shootout, the auto's rarely seem to jam, much as I would expect. But, if its a fight, that leads to a gunfight, the auto may turn into a single shot.


A particular episode that comes to mind is the Officer that was fighting a real, no kidding boxer, that was about to beat the Officer to death. He finally drew his pistol and got off one shot, in the BG's midsection, with little effect, The gun jammed after one round and the BG grabbed the gun and beat the Officer with the gun, tossed it and the Officer picked it back up later in the fight. (Interesting video if you ever get a chance to see it)


On duty, I had to carry a Glock 35. And, I'm not sure I am ready to give up the general reliabilty, mag capacity and ease of shooting of a good auto for the vast majority of shooting situations. But, as a back up, I carry a 642. And, it seems alot of others are big fans of the little revolvers as back up guns.


But, Off duty, I find myself carrying a 3" S&W M65 more and more. I envision an off duty encounter being a very fast fight that turns into a gunfight. Bad guy rushing you with a knife, BG jumping you, knocking you down and attacking you, two guys pinning you into a corner and the fight is on. Capacity becomes secondary to utter reliability for me at that point. I can still get good hits with a revovler out to 25 yards or so, if I have to, but, its not really something I see happening. Truth be known, the odds of needing a gun at all are pretty remote, but, we all plan for the unexpected.


Have you taken your favorite defense auto out to the range, held it with your left hand, bent your wrist and elbow and tried getting off as many shots as you could? Upside down? Cover your hands in soapy water and empty a magazine? Shove it into the target and see if it gets pushed out of battery? Does it jam after the first shot? I have, and, the reliabilty of a previously Utterly reliable auto went down hill.


One thing I have observed. Lightweight polymer autos are much less forgiving of a bad grip, hence the phrase limp wristing is synonymous with Glocks.

That wasn’t really an issue when cops first started with autos. Full metal Smiths. Sigs. Colts.

Heavy guns are not as dependent on a solid grip as lightweight polymer ones.

Full disclosure, I now carry a P239 in .357 SIG most of the time. Or, a Ruger SP101.

 

[JTQ]

I need to get a dog; one that's a bit defensive. Something like a Doberman or a Pitbull mix, maybe.

What are your thoughts?

If you're not a dog person - chances of a "protective" breed biting somebody you don't want them to bite, is probably greater than a dog stopping an intruder.

"Family dog kills two children and mauls mother" https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...lized-after-tennessee-dog-mauling/8219201001/

I like dogs, I've owned a few, and probably have more books on dogs than many libraries. If you're a dog person and good at training them, they can be a wonderful addition to your family. If you think that just having one, and a big powerful one, will make your life easier, and you're not a dog person, it may not work out for you.

 

[bdickens]

The OP really is not about Revolvers vs Semiautomatics but about stupid tactical blunders.

 

[JTQ]

He went to rack the slide to chamber one realized he couldn't, as his other wrist was broken from being shot. The article didn't say how our man got the slide racked.

Full disclosure: although the 6 rounds took down the perp and made him drop his gun, our man wished for more ammo.

It would probably be pretty tough to reload a revolver with a broken wrist.

 

[CDW4ME]

I'm glad you posted this in general discussion, as I tend to stay out of the revolver (antique) forum.

In the example you gave:
Don't open the door. (If I open the door, my German Shepherd is at my side and I'm carrying a holstered Glock (I carry at home even though its unnecessary)
If one carries a semi they should be comfortable & competent with loaded chamber; if they are not a revolver may be (probably is) better (said by someone who doesn't carry revolvers)

I do not carry a revolver. I think them capacity deficient (nothing will change that) and I'm not into minimums (like only 5-6 rounds).
Here are examples where 5-6 rounds would be insufficient and it doesn't matter to me who is pulling the trigger, some people take multiple rounds to incapacitate:
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/do-examples-incidents-matter-to-you.902897/

Is there anywhere that I think I'd be better off with a revolver in my hand to defend myself than a Glock 17/19/22? Nope.
I carry what I think advantageous, a semi with 15+ rounds. (said by somebody who has been carrying 30+ years and never needed a single bullet)
Capacity is like time, better to have extra and not need it, than to have less and run out.

To clarify:
I'm not bashing revolvers. If one is uncomfortable or incompetent with loaded chamber or a semi, then a revolver is likely the better choice. (But not for me)

 

[JTQ]

As a revolver fan and hand-loader; I note with mild disappointment that the Autoloader subforum is about 3X as popular as the revolver sub.

That's pretty good considering semi-auto pistols are probably 10x more popular than revolvers. I haven't really paid attention to the market, but can you count all the revolver makers (that can commonly be purchased in the USA) on one hand? S&W, Ruger, Taurus, Colt, Freedom Arms ...