A gun shop episode that left a bad taste in my mouth...

[stchman]

This thread is way off now.

It was never a question of whether the store owner allows FTF transactions in his store, but that if the store owner was warranted to berate a paying customer?

1. I agree that the store owner is well within his/her rights to tell a customer to leave. Furthermore he/she can tell a customer to never come back again.

2. It is in very poor customer service to yell at someone whether they were right or wrong.

3. The store owner could have politely said to take the transaction off the property.

 

[poker88]

Because apologies are much more effective when the situation has calmed down, and peoples emotions have subsided.

You are missing the part of the question about "why should he bother". There are other gun shops that he can go to and, it sounds like, get better prices. The shop owner had the right to ask him to leave before buying that woman's gun but the shop owner did not have the right to yell and scream at him.

 

[ny32182]

AFTER the individual and the shop had come to the conclusion that they could not reach a satisfactory deal on the rifle, I don't see anything wrong with making an offer on it, much less simply asking to see it.

IF the shop owner for some unknown reason (maybe there is a legal restriction, or simple personal preference) doesn't want FTF deals in the store, he could easily have politely reminded you to step outside.

I'll put it this way... there are about 5 gun shops within easy driving distance of me. 95% of my FFL business goes through one of them. I have a first-name basis greeting with whoever is at the counter when I go in there. I've spent who knows how many thousands of dollars in there over the last ten years. If anyone at that shop ever did anything like that to me, I'd be exiting the store for the last time immediately.

 

[Gouranga]

Alright. Yes the OP did absolutely commit a mistake. he should not have attempted engage in that transaction in the store. However that gun store owner, way in the wrong here. The guy did wait till the shop owner turned the sale down, did not get involved in the sale in any way, so he had that for him. He simply should have followed her out maybe given her his number and told her to call him on the gun and ended it there so there was no transaction on his property.

I am sorry, my LOWEST gun purchase at a store has been $500 and up to near $2,000. If I am going to your store to drop some money, you had best be better than that or I will leave your store and never return. i will see to it my friend never return, I will post negative on your store online for the rest of my life. It is called customer service. Give you customer the benefit of the doubt. Here he had a KNOWN customer who has bought items in the past.

Personally, I do not give a rats backside who other folks have done to him. I am the customer, you give them the benefit of the doubt. he could have easily, calmly and firmly stated, "Please, do NOT do that in my store." Provided you listened to him, then no harm no foul, he has not lost a customer, and he has a teachable moment.

He chose to work in a field where the general public are day to day thing. The general public suck, part of life though. Part of the job is to man up and treat customers fairly, they have no obligation to do that with you and a lot of them won't. I worked at McD's for 4 years and I got more nimrods at my register than I could put in an email. I was never rude (despite getting a couple death threats for cheeseburgers having catchup on them and a filet-o-fish with tartar on it), and I made 4.25 an hour.

There are 2 stores I frequent in my area. This is because the owners are good folk, and treat me with courtesy. When I was a noob, they were VERY patient with a multitude of stupid questions and I mean stupid questions. I commited some fouls (like dry firing a firearm) and they firmly straightened me up on the mistakes quickly. I have spent thousands of dollars with them as a result, and through recommendations probably been responsible for at least $100k in sales (in the last 2 years) from friends and family going there on my recommendation.

IMO, there is simply no cause for pi** poor customer service like that, none. I would never return to that store. I would make sure as many folks as possible knew why.

 

[SundownRider]

Well, this thread proves that if you treat a customer right, he will tell three friends about the experience. If you treat him badly, he will tell thirty about it.

 

[rbernie]

He was out of bounds.
He had already refused to buy the gun. You weren't making an offer on it, merely asking to see it.

This.

Yes, it's rude to try to outbid the house - but it's equally rude for the house to get pissy when they pass on a deal and somebody else shows interest. More to the point, it's flatly unacceptable for anyone to yell across the counter, in either direction.

There is zero excuse for that, and anyone raising their voice across the counter owes the other an apology regardless of any preciptating factors.

 

[Gouranga]

Well, this thread proves that if you treat a customer right, he will tell three friends about the experience. If you treat him badly, he will tell thirty about it.

Actually, because I am such a stickler and a prick about bad customer service, I do the exact opposite for good customer service. I have posted the address and phone number of the stores I frequent online on many boards (where it does not violate the the rules of the board to do so). Granted not a common trait nowadays but if you are gonna go into a field like this you have to accept these types of things will happen and deal with it in a professional manner.

I mean, no matter what day he was having, just tell him not to engage in ANY sales on his property. If he listens hey great if he ignores you then it is time to get a bit more vocal about it. But to go off on someone...sorry but running any retail business it is not acceptable. He'd better have the best selection and prices in town if he is gonna treat people like that, cause his customer service won't keep folks coming at all.

 

[saturno_v]

Thank you guys for actually make me think about one aspect of the episode I did not consider so far....I just asked to see the rifle....and I could not even get to what kind of rifle it was before the guy started coming at me (it was some sort of bolt action rimfire or 22 Hornet I think)

Probably I should not even have apologized.....and for what?? just to look at a firearm??

 

[Gouranga]

Really, I would drop it, don't let it eat ya up and never go to that store again. If you want, make sure you pass the word about how they treat people. We shall see how well he stays in business treating customers like crud in an economy like this one.

 

[SSN Vet]

I don't know about you, but when I go public and tell stories about my experiences, I find that I usually give myself the benefit of the doubt every time and paint my words, actions and motives in a postitive way. No body here has heard the other side of the story. Yet many are quick to pass judgement.

How does the store owner KNOW that the OP was trying to buy the gun?

Perhaps because he's not stupid... apparently he makes his living selling and trading firearms (do you?) and most likely sees this kind of thing every day (do you?).

There's such a thing as "proving it beyond a shadow of a doubt in Judge Judy's court" and then "knowing with a high degree of certainty based on experience and probabilities).

Come on people, we live in a free society (at least for a little while longer we do). If the OP didn't like the store owners manners... don't go back.

And likewise... if he doesn't like your manners in his store... he's entitled to tell you to take a hike.

Why are so many "libertarians" so quick to call in the nanny police (BBB... oh please) to stuff their opinion down some one elses neck, on their private property.

I don't consider it polite or acceptable behavior to yell at people.

But I've seen so many "customers" try to rip off the company I work for in every way immaginable (and they often get away with it).

IMHO, the customer is not always right, and often deserves to be told to please go away and don't come back.

 

[Bubbles]

FFL was way out of line on this one as he'd passed on buying the gun. He could have just politely told the lady and OP to conduct business outside.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

often deserves to be told to please go away and don't come back.

THAT can be easily done without screaming and arm waving. There IS NO excuse for that no matter how many sides there are to it.

 

[Werewolf]

stchman....

Do you think the ATF needs a reason or justification to pull this mans license and trash his livelyhood?

Uhhhh.... Yeah!
This is a nation of laws. The ATF is NOT exempt from them just because they're the ATF and gun guys like us want to believe they act as they are.

They'll do whatever they want to do, and it will cost him $20K (not to mention the fact that his shop just got closed down) to lawyer up and begin his protest.

NO! They won't. They'll do what they want only as long as what they want to do is within the law. The law may be total BS but it's still the law. Don't like it then elect officials who'll change it.

Too many of us want to believe that the ATF is run by and has agents that are all like those described in a number of popular gun books. It isn't. The ATF has done some bad things but those are the exception and not the rule that certain authors want us to believe (because that's what sells books). I'm no fan of the ATF or of their mission but the guys in it aren't the boogeymen many here want to believe they are.

I'm not saying the guy was right to blow his stack and yell.... maybe his dog just died, how do I, or you , or anybody else know.

None of which is relevant to the shop owner's behavior as described by the OP. The guy unecessarily blew a gasket and probably lost a customer and if there is a GOD lost more than just one.

My point is that I don't think any store owner is under any kind of moral obligation to provide a convenient, heated, airconditioned, dry and secure place for people to walk in off the street and conduct their private party deals.

Agreed...

The OP wasn't out in the parking lot... he was in the store!

and the OP didn't offer to do business in the store all he asked was to see the gun.

Us gun guys need all the licensed FFL's and gun shops the market can bear. What we don't need are a'holes that behave like the one in the OP's post.

Go try to pull that one at Cabellas or Dicks or whereever..... You might not get yelled at, but you will be asked to leave.

Which is all the maniac in the OP's post had to do. Politely ask him to leave without all the yelling.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

personal transactions can't legally occur on an FFL's premises

is the answer

 

[Sniper X]

Sundown said: Well, this thread proves that if you treat a customer right, he will tell three friends about the experience. If you treat him badly, he will tell thirty about it.

In this case over thirty thousand!

 

[searcher451]

I understand full well the sensitivity of the matter, especially where the FFL is concerned, but ... Praise in public, criticize in private. Even if you have a legitimate beef, you still criticize in private. The guy should have simply come around the corner, tapped you on the shoulder, motioned you aside and out of the fray, and expressed his feelings on the matter at that time -- in your eye only. It's Management 101.

 

[hometheaterman]

They would lose my business over that. After all, they had refused to purchase it anyway. I find stuff like this ridiculous. If they don't want it, they shouldn't stop you from being able to look at it. If they wanted you to go somewhere else to complete the sale, fine. Yet, you should at least be able to talk to the person there.

 

[oldbear]

Also consider the fact that the proprietor needs to make a PROFIT on the gun, you could stand by the gun counter and offer better deals than the store all day if you wanted too. Consider your actions in the eyes of others occasionally.

The O.P. clearly stated that the owner of the shop refused to make an offer on the item in question. The O.P. did not interrupt and try to make a counter offer. Heck if I had been in the O.P.s' position I very well may have done the same thing, except I would NOT have apologized to the store owner or anyone else. I will also assure you that I would have explained to the offending person why I will never do business with him again.

 

[Diggers]

No excuse for that shop owner.

The one thing I have enjoyed about these hard economic times is the customer service has gotten a lot better. It has brought me back to businesses.

Interestingly this shop owner has not seemed to notice this trend.

I once saw a situation in a coffee shop where the owner refused to sell a guy coffee, to go, because he had bought bagels at a bakery across the street. (The coffee shop sold those too) The guy stood there holding the bagel bag in shock, as did I. The customer left, I didn't go back.

I was amazed at this coffee shop owner’s idiocy and arrogance.

A person can buy what they want were they want, if they happen to come into your store to spend money you thank them.

And people wonder why so many private businesses fail. :banghead:

 

[gc70]

There is zero excuse for that, and anyone raising their voice across the counter owes the other an apology regardless of any preciptating factors.

ANY business owner who yells at a customer will lose my business. People who lack the professionalism to treat their customers with dignity, respect, and restraint will probably demonstrate the same shortcoming in multiple ways, eventually to my detriment. And there is always another business available where professionalism prevails.

 

[Oyeboten]

Gun Store Owner was a poor business practice fellow.


All he had to say, with a genuine good humor, was -


"Ahem - Say you two, if you want to do a Gun Sale in my Store, come right on over here, and, we run it through me so I get little cut, some respect for my Turf, and so we all get to have fun and be included...and everyone's happy..."


Things would evolve then, as they please.

There is no good enough reason for his demeanor as it was, it hurt him and hurt everyone else.

Resentment or impatience or rudeness to others, intemperence, unkindness, are always "bad business".

 

[ThePunisher'sArmory]

Read the OPs original statement. He merely wanted to "see the gun". The gun shop owner was blowing this way out of proportion. If he said straight out "I want to buy that gun." Then yes he hass a very valid reason to be <...irked...>. Gun shop owners need to become less pompous if we want to pass the tradition of shooting down to the youth. I started buying guns and getting into shooting at the age of 25 and almost gave up because shop owners see you as a "punk kid."

 

[LibShooter]

I used to work in a gun shop and this was everyones biggest pet peeve. It is extraordinarily rude and inconsiderate.

I understand that folks who work in retail must suffer fools all day long. However, they must be aware of two things.

1. I don't know every law that governs your business and every rule in effect in your store. If you need to educate me, do so in a polite and courteous manner. Aside from being good business, it's good manners.

2. I don't know (or care) how many of your customers did the same dumb thing or asked the same stupid question just before I entered your store. If you can't treat every single customer with respect, you should probably find a new line of work.

A police officer is not allowed to beat up a speeder because the last seven guys he stopped were mouthy. You don't punish folks for the bad deeds of others.

 

[wishin]

The gun store guy over reacted.

It's well known in the business world that it's easier to retain a regular customer, than to find a new one. Maybe he'll get lucky and replace the OP with a new customer in short order; in any event he's potentially lost a good customer regardless.

I would not return to the store unless an apology was proffered.

 

[Sniper X]

If I had been the shop owner I would have simply pulled the customer aside and politely let him know it is only legal to do what he was trying to do off my premisses and wish him good luck in the purchase. I would have also asked him to come back in after he made a decision and seen how it went so i could sell him some accessories for the newly aquired gun!