A legal argument for depriving felons of gun rights

[joop]

Very familiar but one big difference, we have the right to own guns.

newsflash: we have the right to liberty.

Convicted felons gave up their rights when they committed and were convicted of a felony.

They should only have to pay to society what they were sentenced. If they were not sentenced to life they should be let out at the end of the sentence.

I guess you were talking felons who are in for life. I agree that those felons should stay in there and not be let out for good behavior (as they are wont to do).

 

[lions]

newsflash: we have the right to liberty.

And now my quote...

Convicted felons gave up their rights when they committed and were convicted of a felony.

I guess you were talking felons who are in for life.

You are correct. ****I am not talking about ALL felons, just murderers and other violent criminals.**** If you kill someone and get out of your sentence early because you were a "good boy" I don't think you should be getting all your rights back. If people are racking up multiple felonies the punishment obviously isn't strong enough to make them reconsider their actions. I understand that people make mistakes, it happens. I do believe there should be a distinction between violent felons and felons that did something that shouldn't be a felony in the first place.

 

[Drgong]

I think that what i think of felons (people who commit crimes like Murder, Rape, Child molestors, and home invasion) should not be able to have handguns (nore be able to vote)

But there are also many other crimes that are felonies that I would not mind having (after they have served their time, including probation) to have full rights, including gun rights, restored.

 

[MinnMooney]

Non-violent felons should get all their rights restored upon release...

Here- Here !! I've always wondered why an imbezzler should have his rights removed and never returned, even after serving his time... including parole, if any. Where is the reasoning in that? One part of imprisonment is rehabilation and the other is punishment for the crime. Once the "punishment" is completed, shouldn't all of the offenders rights be restored? Why do we say that "He's served his time. He is now a free man." Shouldn't we be saying, "He's done his time. Now he is out of prison but certainly not 'free' to do what you and I can do like vote and own a gun." ??

 

[Gator]

Violent Felons should be kept behind bars. Non-violent felons should get all their rights restored upon release...

Absolutely! We shouldn't be releasing violent people back into society. And all non-violent felons should have their full rights restored after they have served their sentence.

 

[drgrenthum]

In todays litigious society one should not assume that a violent felon is a bad person and that you could not one day be convicted of such. Especially when in these days there is no such thing as an accident. I present to you 2nd degree manslaughter (a wanton act)

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.
A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of
manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten
years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:
(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and
consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or
(2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently
believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or
(3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or
device; or
(4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have
vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run
uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined;


These are serious offenses but none of them are someone intentionally doing harm to another person. I wouldnt suspend someones right indefinitely because the dog got out and killed someone. Obviously there are going to be reprocussions but a life long sentence doesnt fit the crime.

Any negligiant discharge that killed someone else would also fit into this category. Plenty of people on this site have had ND's . Again i understand there being a punishment but to say someone can no longer own to protect there family for life seems harsh. I could go on and on with situations were life long punishment is not justified and who decides what warrants an unreasonable risk, just owning a gun around kids could be considered by the bradys an unreasonable risk..

If what the writer says is true about a good deal of violent felons commiting another violent crime within three years. It would make sense to include a stipulation in the sentence saying they cant have guns for 3-5 years, but once time is served leave them be.

 

[Frank Ettin]

I'm sorry, but I still can't get worked up over a felon (violent or not) losing some rights. He's broken the social contract and knew, or should have known, the possible consequences. He took the risk and lost.

 

[Gator]

Ah...I got news for you "fiddletown". It is almost a certainty that you (and the rest of us) have committed (completely innocently and unwittingly) felonies at some time, we just haven't been caught. So don't think you are so innocent...at least in the eyes of the law.

 

[akodo]

wait, these are basic innalienable rights, correct?

Then why don't we let felons have guns, free speech, freedom of assembly, and all the rest WHILE they are serving their sentance?

Hey, we believe all these things to be basic human rights, correct? So what gives us the right to put anyone in jail?

What it boils down to is that in certain cases, we revoke the basic rights of individuals who have proven themselves to be a danger to society after being convicted in a court of law. We are allowed to revoke all their rights if necessary.

We can revoke a person's right to keep and bear arms perminantly by sentencing them to 'life, no possibility of parol'

So if that is allowable, why not '10 years in jail, then we let you out, but you still cannot vote, own a gun, or hang around schoolchildren'

 

[KiltedClaymore]

So if that is allowable, why not '10 years in jail, then we let you out, but you still cannot vote, own a gun, or hang around schoolchildren'

because if you did something to earn you life, you aint coming back to society. if you screwed up, got caught, and straitened out in jail, your rights should be restored as soon as you walk out those prison gates.

 

[akodo]

Ah...I got news for you "fiddletown". It is almost a certainty that you (and the rest of us) have committed (completely innocently and unwittingly) felonies at some time, we just haven't been caught. So don't think you are so innocent. The trick is to not draw the interest of the authorities, because if you do they will almost always be able to find something to use to take away our rights.

I got news for you. No, I bet most of us have NOT committed felonies, caught or uncaught.

 

[KiltedClaymore]

evidently akodo had a boring, un-rebelious, un-adventurous teen-hood. we have a saint among us!

 

[akodo]

because if you did something to earn you life, you aint coming back to society. if you screwed up, got caught, and straitened out in jail, your rights should be restored as soon as you walk out those prison gates.

why? Are prisons some sort of magical nether place? If it is a human right, why does it matter what lattitude and longitude a person is at?

The only reason we are allowed to deny someone their rights is because they are CONVICTED. It has got absolutely nothing to do with prison, and everythign to do with them being CONVICTED. Once the human is convicted, we are authorized to restrict his rights. It need not be tied to any specific location. Heck, we could give someone zero jail time but a life of probation.

 

[akodo]

evidently akodo had a boring, un-rebelious, un-adventurous teen-hood. we have a saint among us!

so you say adventure = law-breaking?

can't you have an adventure within the law?

I don't know why you are so proud of committing felonies anyways. That should be something you are ashamed of, caught or not. It seems to me you are attempting to poke fun at me because I have never committed a felony. That's just wrong

 

[KiltedClaymore]

ok, what about ejudicated(spelling?) juviniles? they have thier rights taken away even though they were not CONVICTED. they cant hunt, drive a car, vote, or be NEAR guns until the age of 20-something (i think 25). chew on that for a sec.

 

[KiltedClaymore]

can't you have an adventure within the law

yes, you can. im just saying that most folks did something against the law in their youth, and for lack of a better word (other than "being stupid") i used adventure!

and i've never been arrested for a felony, thank you very much. also, i dont belive in "shame" so to speak. i think it's something to not advertise, but to hide your face and run in "shame" just rubs me wrong. if you did it and someone ever asks "did you ever get arrested" look them in the eye and say "yes" while standing tall, proud that you NEVER let it happen again.

 

[halfbreed808]

There's a gray area here. Some of these felons have committed their crimes and will never make the same mistake again, while the majority will continually go in and out of prison. If a person has a felony record for a single charge that was not violent in nature and has been an upstanding member of society for XX number of years then maybe they should have their right to owning a firearm restored. Granted the stipulations would have to be stringent in order to recieve the return of this right.
I believe everyone makes mistakes some dumber than others but if we learn from our bad choices and take corrective action they can be great life lessons. Unfortunately most felons never learn their lesson and keep repeating the process that got them locked up in the first place. These idiots should never be allowed this right. Yet there are the very few who'll wise up and live productive lives in society. For these select few, maybe just maybe, they should be allowed to enjoy all the rights we all enjoy.

 

[akodo]

yes, you can. im just saying that most folks did something against the law in their youth

that's different than a felony

 

[KiltedClaymore]

no, it's not. you would be suprised at what is a felony. pot (for all you gun toting hippies) is a felony in Arizona. that right there could put alot of good and responsable folks in felony range. all because of youthfull curiosity and rebellion. i could go on, but im going to bed.

 

[Mr.1973]

Pretty soon the law will state: If your credit score is below 600, you shall not possess firearms.

Felonies are not the only thing that disqualifies a United States citizen from possessing firearms. Some misdemeanors also federally disqualify you just the same.

The anti's may not take the 2nd amendment away like they want too, but they pass laws every year that makes the scope of "law abiding citizen" all the more narrow.

Like I said.. gun control is not about guns, it is about control.

 

[KiltedClaymore]

dear Mr1973,

thank you, FINALY someone comes to my rescue from the philistine!!!

 

[SomeDude]

Suppose it's a guy with a Class 3 FFL and he forgets to dot an "i" and the ATF nails him for violation of the NFA? He takes a plea deal to avoid bankrupting his family and is now a convicted felon. Never can own a gun again or even handle one.

 

[Gator]

evidently akodo had a boring, un-rebelious, un-adventurous teen-hood. we have a saint among us!

Nah, he's no saint, he's as guilty as the rest of us.
I wasn't talking about youthful indiscretions. I was referring to the thousands of laws that exist that hardly anyone knows about. These laws can be used to deprive the most honest person of his rights. Think if the more obscure provisions of the Internal Revenue Code or the Lacey Act as examples, its hard NOT to be a potential felon these days.

I'm not prepared to say that some 65 year old tourist who brought a fish skeleton mounted on a plaque back as a souvenir of her trip to Honduras should be deprived of the right to keep a pistol at the side of her bed as protection. If that's "breaking the social contract", we need a new contract.

 

[TwitchALot]

What it boils down to is that in certain cases, we revoke the basic rights of individuals who have proven themselves to be a danger to society after being convicted in a court of law. We are allowed to revoke all their rights if necessary.

We can revoke a person's right to keep and bear arms perminantly by sentencing them to 'life, no possibility of parol'

So if that is allowable, why not '10 years in jail, then we let you out, but you still cannot vote, own a gun, or hang around schoolchildren'

...

The only reason we are allowed to deny someone their rights is because they are CONVICTED. It has got absolutely nothing to do with prison, and everythign to do with them being CONVICTED. Once the human is convicted, we are authorized to restrict his rights. It need not be tied to any specific location. Heck, we could give someone zero jail time but a life of probation

It really is simple, as I said. If you don't think they should be able to vote, own a gun, or hang around schoolchildren after their prison time, make it PART OF THE SENTENCE. The restriction of rights has to be done through the due process of law. But it's not.

If a person is convicted, they are sentenced, in a court of law, to a punishment. And they should only receive the punishment they are sentenced to in a court of law- no more, no less.

 

[Dustinthewind]

Quote:
evidently akodo had a boring, un-rebelious, un-adventurous teen-hood. we have a saint among us!
so you say adventure = law-breaking?

can't you have an adventure within the law?


I don't know why you are so proud of committing felonies anyways. That should be something you are ashamed of, caught or not. It seems to me you are attempting to poke fun at me because I have never committed a felony. That's just wrong

Between Black and White there lie numerous shades of Grey. As Gator said, most of us have unknowingly committed a felony at some point in our lives. Felonies can result from such mundane things as transporting a firearm to the range. Maybe your late for work, alarm clock didn't go off, and you break three traffic laws in your haste to get there, if your late again you lose your job, you have just committed a felony in many jurisdictions. Things that happen between men and women behind closed doors can be felonious.
I am not sticking up for child molesters, rapists or ax murderers. These people should have a speedy trial followed by a speedy hanging. However there are a number of people who have one way or another ran afoul of the law that should have their rights restored.