A New Trend In Policing ???

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David

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Maybe I'm a bit old fashioned, but it is hard for me to see military-type police patrol (as opposed to specific SWAT-type operations such as barricaded subjects and serving high-risk warrants, etc.) the streets of the United States!

To me, it looks like a "third-world" country where the military is the police!

:uhoh: :what: :scrutiny:

Here is a photo, for example, of NYPD patrolling Times Square during New Year's Eve (by the way, what type of firearms and other equipment are these guys carrying):
 

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Relax Dave, I would have expected high security in NY on New Years Eve after 9/11 (and the bombers that tried to sneak across the Canadian border to do a little "surpise on the 1st New Year after 9/11). That is not regular patrol. Today is 1-3-04, and you'll not find those guys walking the streets anywhere in NY on "routine patrol".
 
David, if I were in new york this time of year, I'd be wearing a balaclava too!!!

I think they should put the right handed guy on the left and the lefthanded guy on the right :p
 
Shunk, do you know what type of "tactical" gloves these guys are wearing?
 
Looks like they both have M4's, with Surefire Vertical Grip Foreends, and possibly Aimpoint's. Also on single point slings.

Sorry, I will have to disagree with you. I see nothing wrong with what was done, because of the threat level. Everyday patrol? Yeah, I would agree. However, they were geared up for a SWAT Style operation. If terrorists were going to hit, it would make sense. Hit New York's Time Square. Thousands of potential deaths. News cameras/media all over the place. Wonderful target to make a point.
 
Lot of it's for show, too. People see stuff like this and they feel safer; it's a way of making a very public police presence (did I spell that wrong? It looks wrong).

I tell you though, I ever get pulled over buy a cop, and he comes up to my car door dressed in urban camo BDUs, a kevlar helmet and/or balaclava, and sporting an MP5 or an M4, I'm going to have to start to wonder...
 
I tell you though, I ever get pulled over buy a cop, and he comes up to my car door dressed in urban camo BDUs, a kevlar helmet and/or balaclava, and sporting an MP5 or an M4, I'm going to have to start to wonder...

Wonder what, if some department had low enough standards to let me pass their psych? :D
 
Minneapolis airport had cops with M4 carbines. Most Mpls. suburbs issue MP5s or UMP45s to their cops...AFAIK, without adequate training.
 
Lot of it's for show, too. People see stuff like this and they feel safer; it's a way of making a very public police presence (did I spell that wrong? It looks wrong).

I tell you though, I ever get pulled over buy a cop, and he comes up to my car door dressed in urban camo BDUs, a kevlar helmet and/or balaclava, and sporting an MP5 or an M4, I'm going to have to start to wonder...
Well, I too am from the old school. I was taught during all those college years as a CJ major that American policing is all about community service and community policing. NOT about SWAT teams and JBTs. Cops should be dressed appropriately sp that they project a professional and friendly image to the people they are sworn to protect. This image bothers me. And for all you out there that think they need all this "gear" to be safe, protected, etc., it can be done wearing old-fashioned policing clothes (save the helmets maybe). I think most of these guys just get a kick out of being billy bad-a$$ and they are allowed to do it. Just my opinion of course.

GT
 
Relax Dave, I would have expected high security i


Dave doesn't need to relax. More of America needs to get VERY upset at this.



"Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Benjamin Franklin


Too few Americans believe that.


Heil Ashcroft.


:barf:
 
Like it or not, our police are becoming militarized.
They used to be called "Peace Officers".
Now, they are called "Law Enforcement".

A further blurring of civilian and military.
 
Like it or not, our police are becoming militarized.
They used to be called "Peace Officers".
Now, they are called "Law Enforcement".


I agree. I think it that it is in response to society changes though. Times Square is not Mayberry. Projecting an image of invulnerability is important in deterrence.
 
Although I do NOT like the image of American LEO's wearing BDU's with 60 pounds of tactical gear when on normal street patrol. Both of the guys in that photo are not normal patrol officer's. They are ESU (Emergency Services Unit) this is NYPD's SWAT/Technical Rescue/everything odd unit. I think that if the local constabulatory starts thinking of themshelves as more than civilans (which they are) the next thing will be someone asking you for your papers.
 
If people fin this to make them feel secure, then we need to teach better history! :eek:

Peace Officers do not need face covering. JBTs need anonymity.

Is it not funny that the sheeple will allow the "Law Enforcement" community to walk the streets with M4s, and feel "safe," but fear that their neighbor might have one?

Police State USA :mad:
 
Frankly I think firearms like that should stay in the arms room or squad car until they're needed. Of course, this was a special occasion, New Years and all that.

The helmet bothers me too - while it may be practical, it has a distinctive military connotation. British occupation troops in southern Iraq went from helmets to berets very quickly for precisely that reason.
 
Like it or not, our police are becoming militarized.
They used to be called "Peace Officers".
Now, they are called "Law Enforcement".

A further blurring of civilian and military.
Not everywhere. Please do be careful not to tar all of us with the same brush. I myself don't even own a baklava or facemask, except for a tired old kakhi one that I use for deer hunting when it's cold. Most cops I know (admittedly, not all are disgusted by officers in masks, except for extremely exigient circumstances (20 below, undercover work where the UC officer has to be on-scene during the arrest among other suspects. . . that may be it)

I see no problem with long guns in patrol cars of patrol officers, and that includes ARs or other "black rifles." I don't see a problem with them in the hands of riot/anti-terroist special-duty uses like this. Certainly nothing about these guys' attire suggest "Patrol Officer." :) If it were the norm, I think that I would be pretty disturbed by that.

Consider this, though-- When you put on a uniform and walk amongst the crowd you're target #1. In a higher-risk time and place, wouldn't you want to place yourself at a higher level of readiness to meet the possible threat? The main question, though, should be this one: When the cop comes around the corner, does the citizen on the street view him with fear, or with approval that he's there? If the citizens on that street, on that night, were glad for that officer in that street gear to be there, then there's a certain justification for his manner of presense.
 
New Year's Eve in Times Square of Noo Yark City? No problem. Completely justified though I would quibble with the head socks.

Now if its downtown Lake City, SC May 17, 2004; I gotta problem.

Militarization of the executive branch has been a growing problem. Thanks to 911 it is out there for everyone to see. Whether or not its a problem in the voter's mind is a different issue.
 
If it were the norm, I think that I would be pretty disturbed by that.


Nobody said ALL cops. Nobody said EVERYWHERE.


But it is the trend, and that should bother us.



How far down the road to a police state do you want to go? For myself, I don't even want to be ON the road.
 
Matt G said it as well as I could imagine anyone saying it. Also, about painting with the broad brush;
I think most of these guys just get a kick out of being billy bad-a$$ and they are allowed to do it. Just my opinion of course.
I don't think people realize how much they generalize when refering to a group (it's subconcious), but are very sensitive when it's directed at them/their group (IE: gun owners, etc).
It never hurts to point that out (in a non-confrontive manner like you did). We must all learn to overcome our small differences/biases if we are to succeed in our common goal(s).

All the best
 
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Jan-02-Fri-2004/photos/news.jpg
Tactical Cavalry in Las Vegas on New Years Eve...
Much better.
HazMat crews on the ready. Gunships with response teams overhead. No-fly zone (brought to us by our beloved Federal Dept of Homeland Security/INS) and all.
Drunken rowdys about for some reason.
A splendid time was had by all. Didn't hear about any terror types in NYC or here.
Except maybe the horses... and the Cops who'd probably rather be taking the time off but who, having selected their profession, always seem to work that shift(s).
Nowadays Mayberry probably has their own black clad, M-4 toting baclava wearing SWAT team and they even give Barney more than his one bullet... but this is the 21st century.
I've yet to see our Cops goosestepping down the street tho. Horses to heliocopters, bikes to walking the beat, Patrol cars to SWAT vans, I'd rather have em and not need em... you know the rest.
Thank goodness they're there. They're good people on the whole. (Till they catch you doing something you probably shouldn't oughta be doing) But that's another thread.
 
These are the types I'm more worried about.
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I was going to make the same point, that masked officers were stopping cars during the sniper cases back east. Police officers in a democracy should not hide their faces or identities.
 
Sheesh. Okay. The above picture with the blue truck grates on me heavily. I have several big problems with that shot. (Although, I must give him this; he's not even nearly sweeping the driver with his muzzle.)

But what about patrol in really cold areas? I seem to recall hearing that it was very cold in Times Square on 12/31/03? A face covering while on patrol in outdoor cold might be appropriate, then, so long as it got pulled down when making a personal contact. That pic above looks like it's being worn for other reasons. :scrutiny:
 
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