A question about cylinder jamming

[NMSlim]

Hello revolver aficionados. I got a Pietta Great Western II Californian a little while back. No sooner than I got it and off it went to EMF for warranty service. They fixed almost everything wrong with the gun, but something still seems to be amiss with it. When I cock the hammer (four clicks) with 45 Colt snap caps, or bullets, in the chambers if I don't have the muzzle pointing down at the ground sometimes the cylinder will jam up and I will have to finesse it to get it to rotate. If I cock the hammer with the gun level it always jams on at least one or two rounds. Unloading the snap caps or shells is always a bear on at least one. I usually have to remove the base pin and take the cylinder out to get the last shell out of the chamber. No shells stick in the chamber. So, right now the solution is to cock the hammer with the muzzle pointing at the ground, then raise it up and shoot. Kind of a pain.

Is there any solution to this or is this typical for these clones?

Thanks.

 

[Risky buisness]

For sale by owner.....

 

[gwpercle]

Not typical for any SA made by any Manufacturer .
I only have two SA's a Ruger Blackhawk and a Ruger Wrangler ... and both can be cocked with the muzzel pointed in any direction ... just did straight up, straight down and out sideways ... with both and no hang ups or binding anywhere .
Something isn't right but I'm not enough of a gunsmith to know what that is ...
Maybe some other members can advise ... but the gun isn't working correctly !
Gary

 

[Slamfire]

That is weird.

I think the back of the frame is not parallel with the front, and that cartridge heads are binding against the frame. Or the base pin holes were not machined parallel, thus canting the cylinder. With the same problem of cartridge heads binding.

Cylinder hand timing can mess up cylinder rotation. If the cylinder hand is not angled correctly, or the ratchets are cut wrong, I can see the occasional sticky rotation occurring.

The manufacturer should fix this, or send you a new one without timing issues.

 

[45 Dragoon]

It's probably the "battery shelf" which is at about 1 o'clock looking at the recoil shield. It "closes down" the headspace as the round enters battery. It can be a little sharp and "grab" the rim rather than allow it to "slide" into battery. Just "break" the edge and you'll be fine.

Mike

 

[Pat Riot]

Does it do this with ammunition?

 

[film495]

look for burs or dings on the edge of the recoil shield. run your finger around and see if you feel anything rough, smooth it off with a small file and stone if you find anything. load one case and see if you can figure out where in the rotation it is binding.

 

[Riomouse911]

Without handling the gun, I can only hazard a couple guesses.

My first guess is that it may be the cylinder is back a thousandth or two too far, and the cartridge rims are dragging/hanging up on the recoil shield area like @45 Dragoon mentioned. I have a S&W DA revolver that had this problem.


The second is proud cases due to a cylinder-chamber issue.
You can load one chamber with a snap cap and try to cycle it all the way around. If it works, move to the next one. If it hangs up, this may be the offender and it can be looked at for the cause. (Check the others anyway, there may be more than one.)

If the chambers are somehow not allowing the cartridges to fully seat, it will cause the same issue of case heads dragging on the recoil shield at the rear of the cylinder window. For me, rimfires with dirty chambers cause this issue the most.

Again, just a coupla guesses. Good luck finding the solution.

Stay safe.

 

[OS/N]

Might have a hand spring issue. If it's the type with a set screw behind it make sure the scew isn't turned in too far or the spring could be too long. The hand has to be able to move when the cly rotates but at the same time keep pressure on the hand so it engages the cly gears reliably at any angle.

Take the cyl out and use your finger on the hand to see if the hand moves back into the frame but still has spring loading on it when its half cocked. If the hand wont go back it's locking it up - if its moving freely without resistence you may have a broken or missing hand spring. Some have a small coil spring inside the frame and some have a long flat spring geared by the hammer but purpose and issues are the same.

If it's the type with a coil spring use caution - if you remove the hand the spring and plunger will pop out and get lost. The spring and plunger should be taken out before removing the hand and put back after the hand is installed. If it doesn't have a plunger installed the spring can turn and bind up behind the hand. The set screw behind the spring should be flush with the frame and not screwed down tight. The set screw is in the frame under the grip frame to the left of the hammer pinon.

 

[NMSlim]

Does it do this with ammunition?

Yes, it does. I had asked EMF to look at that problem and they said they fixed it. When I first got the gun it was happening quite a bit w/o ammo in the chambers. It worked itself out to the point I am at now.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Almost sounds like an endshake issue combined with not enough head space. When it's pointed down hill the cylinder is free to turn. When the barrel is up the cylinder moves back and closes the gap at the recoil shield. Mike is most likely right about the shelf he mentioned. I am surprised this left the factory doing this kind of thing.

 

[NMSlim]

Almost sounds like an endshake issue combined with not enough head space. When it's pointed down hill the cylinder is free to turn. When the barrel is up the cylinder moves back and closes the gap at the recoil shield. Mike is most likely right about the shelf he mentioned. I am surprised this left the factory doing this kind of thing.

I need to narrow it down to which chamber it is, as suggested, and then look at the gun and using the advice I have received so far on this thread. It seems to only happen on one or two chambers. If still perplexed I'll take it to a gunsmith here in town and go from there. Aside from that the gun is accurate and the trigger is so sweet.

 

[NMSlim]

Might have a hand spring issue. If it's the type with a set screw behind it make sure the scew isn't turned in too far or the spring could be too long. The hand has to be able to move when the cly rotates but at the same time keep pressure on the hand so it engages the cly gears reliably at any angle.

Take the cyl out and use your finger on the hand to see if the hand moves back into the frame but still has spring loading on it when its half cocked. If the hand wont go back it's locking it up - if its moving freely without resistence you may have a broken or missing hand spring. Some have a small coil spring inside the frame and some have a long flat spring geared by the hammer but purpose and issues are the same.

If it's the type with a coil spring use caution - if you remove the hand the spring and plunger will pop out and get lost. The spring and plunger should be taken out before removing the hand and put back after the hand is installed. If it doesn't have a plunger installed the spring can turn and bind up behind the hand. The set screw behind the spring should be flush with the frame and not screwed down tight. The set screw is in the frame under the grip frame to the left of the hammer pinon.

At half cock the hand has resistance when I push it in and then it pops back upon release. At full cock it protrudes out beyond the rear of the frame (the recoil shield) and there is resistance when I press it back in. Taking my finger off of it allows it to pop back out. This Pietta's hand spring just sits in a hole on the frame, just to the lower left of the hammer, and is accessed by removing the grips screws and taking off the grip. It pops right out if not careful! There is no set screw to keep it in place. I have narrowed it down to two problematic chambers, ones that bind/lock up when cocking the gun. Point it down and they will "unbind."

 

[NMSlim]

Update: took the gun to a local gunsmith. He looked at it and said the firing pin bushing had been replaced, but not well, and was what was snagging the snap caps and bullets because there was a small burr on it and it wasn’t flush with the recoil plate (back of frame?).The firing pin hole in the bushing was also a little deformed. The hand as well was messed up as far as having a chunk taken out of it. He worked his magic and took care of the gun ASAP.

 

[Reinz]

Great!

Now ya got a shooter.

 

[Riomouse911]

Update: took the gun to a local gunsmith. He looked at it and said the firing pin bushing had been replaced, but not well, and was what was snagging the snap caps and bullets because there was a small burr on it and it wasn’t flush with the recoil plate (back of frame?).The firing pin hole in the bushing was also a little deformed. The hand as well was messed up as far as having a chunk taken out of it. He worked his magic and took care of the gun ASAP.

Good deal!

Glad it was an easy fix. Now that you got it fixed, let us know how it shoots when you get it back in action on the range.

Stay safe.

 

[35 Whelen]

Might have a hand spring issue. If it's the type with a set screw behind it make sure the scew isn't turned in too far or the spring could be too long. The hand has to be able to move when the cly rotates but at the same time keep pressure on the hand so it engages the cly gears reliably at any angle.

Take the cyl out and use your finger on the hand to see if the hand moves back into the frame but still has spring loading on it when its half cocked. If the hand wont go back it's locking it up - if its moving freely without resistence you may have a broken or missing hand spring. Some have a small coil spring inside the frame and some have a long flat spring geared by the hammer but purpose and issues are the same.

If it's the type with a coil spring use caution - if you remove the hand the spring and plunger will pop out and get lost. The spring and plunger should be taken out before removing the hand and put back after the hand is installed. If it doesn't have a plunger installed the spring can turn and bind up behind the hand. The set screw behind the spring should be flush with the frame and not screwed down tight. The set screw is in the frame under the grip frame to the left of the hammer pinon.

^^^^I would start right here ^^^^

35W