A rant on: hit this poll threads

[DeepSouth]

I just want to voice a rant about all the hit this poll threads that are such common place. I believe the we are doing a disservice to ourselves and as well as website owners by bombarding polls to "win."

If a news site, or any other site for that matter, puts up a weekly/daily poll and gets say 1500-2000 hits then puts up a 2A related poll and gets 6000-8000 hits their not to stupid to figure out what happened. Tons of people (with an agenda for a specific outcome) not normally affiliated with said website and outside of their normal audience voted in the poll. Therefore they'll just throw out the poll and as a result they don't know how their audience actually feels about the issue. This is a problem not only to them but to us.

Most of the polls people seem to reference are on left leaning news websites, and while I personally don't think many "leftists" (for lack of a better word) are pro 2A that doesn't seem to be the majority opinion around here. So, for the sake of argument I'll assume I'm wrong. What that would then mean is that when a left leaning news outlet puts up a poll up to gauge where their audience is on the issue, they can't.... Because of us having to "win" their (non-scientific) poll. We cause them to not be able to get a honest evaluation, that IMO isn't good for anyone. ESPECIALLY if I'm wrong and their are lots of left leaning 2A supporters.

Further more, I believe for us to properly engage the average sceptic we need to know the beliefs and opinions of them. This is made much more difficult because we can't see real results in the polls. What specifically brought this to my attn was a poll that asked something along the lines of "should children be able to learn to shoot" the first time I saw the poll NO was leading the next day YES was leading tremendously. Now if most people, or even a lot of people, believe kids shouldn't be able to learn to shoot then we need to know it so we can try to educate them. I just wish I knew the real results, not the results we trump up for our cause.

If these polls had any credibility to them I might understand, but they are non-scientific and if anyone ever tried to reference one of them they'd be laughed out of the room. The only thing they can show is the opinion of their specific audience, and that matters to them and should matter to us.


Okay, rant over. I feel better now.
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I blame all typos on iPhones auto-correct

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I think you are taking the legitimacy and accuracy of those internet polls too seriously. To me, it is just a source of entertainment. The real poll is when gun issues come to a public vote; you notice the Democrat legislators here in Colorado never put any of the restrictions they passed on the ballot because they knew they would not pass. The problem is that people will vote for anti-Second Amendment politicians because they believe that other issues that get pulled to the top during the campaign cycle are more important to them than the core Constitutional issues. But, by all means, feel free to rant as it is your God given right!

 

[Tirod]

What I read into "hit this poll" is an attempt to get even with the pollster, and by association, the media source putting it out. It's as if the originator of the post is desperately trying to force others to see their world view. And they are trying to get a mob together to force it on others.

Well, even with purchased politicians and secret agenda voting, the anti's don't get away with much.

There's also the fantasy that a voting in a poll actually makes any difference. It's just opinion gathering, and if you took a poll about the legitimacy of them, you'd basically get lot of folks saying they are worthless. And yet, somebody does waste the time and money to conduct them - it's a very poor form of market research.

I consider the "hit this poll" thread to be as useless as the "Court/politicians are keeping a Patriot from exercising Constitutional Rights!" posts. Given some thought and bit of surfing, the horrible indignities of officials running amok are discovered to be simply people doing the job we hired them to do, and the so-called Patriot has a lot of baggage and is far from being the innocent victim portrayed. Pretty much the same as some "innocent" children who beat people and are subsequently shot. It's extremist politics, and distorts the truth for an agenda either way.

How is that High Road?

 

[JRH6856]

Most online polls aren't there to gauge any kind of opinion, they are there to attract eyeballs to the page and generate ad revenue.

 

[1894]

I have to disagree. Several years ago I held your opinion. Maybe I'm bitter or cynical now, but you fight fire with fire. The other side is more than willing to use non scientific data (if there is such a thing) for their cause. They may post 100 polls and only use the one we miss - and broadcast it as God's Truth because The People Have Spoken.

At some point we'll have to enter into a discussion about integrity. Honestly, I'm not sure where I stand in that discussion on this issue. Mainly because I want to win it too badly. Maybe you guys can school me here.

 

[hso]

Deep South,

If the polls were unbiased I might agree in a small way, but most of them are obviously written with an bias from ignorance or Anti intent. Since the people who see the poll running develop an opinion based on who is "winning" in the opinion expressed it helps us to show those viewers that there is no preponderance or Anti sentiment.

 

[DeepSouth]

I can't really disagree with any of you guys, but I think I just see the other side of the coin so to speak. It just bugs me that any potential real info is being tainted by us.

I know their silly junk polls that mean nothing, I have no idea why it bothers me. But it does, and I still think I'm right. My wife says that happens to me a lot.

 

[1894]

Deep - It bothers you because the numbers don't match. You can't get from beginning to end without wondering which 2nd grade math teacher sanctioned the results. Not meant to be mean, but get over it.

Many years as a consultant taught me to ask this question: What would you like the results of this study to show?

Lies, Damn lies, and statistics. Your heart's in the right place (Dixie) but the math won't work for you. Ever. It's not now, nor has it ever been about math (truth). It's about perception - and that means emotion.

Also, your wife sounds like a keeper. Congratulations!

Just my $0.02

 

[DeepSouth]

1894

Deep - It bothers you because the numbers don't match. You can't get from beginning to end without wondering which 2nd grade math teacher sanctioned the results. Not meant to be mean, but get over it.

Well, the cold honest truth. We need more of that, it's a breath of fresh air. I frequently tell my 15 year old to "man up" I think you did that to me, and I appreciate it.

Thing is your likely right, if we didn't hit polls they would likely be skewed in the other direction. Partly because HSO is correct in that they normally word them in a biased manner. I just would like to have some idea of the correct info. That's all I want and I just see us making that impossible and that's the part that bugs me. But if I understand your point correctly if we weren't skewing the results they would be, and then I'd be crying about that, therefore I should just man up and move on.

BTW:
My wife is incredible, she tells to man up occasionally to!

 

[1894]

I didn't mean it as severe as it came across. For that, please accept my apologies. I tend to wear my cynicism on my sleeve and my mouth has gotten me into more trouble than it's released me from.

More to the point, numbers on tv or the interwebs are usually biased in one direction or the other. (our side does it too). They lie. We lie. End of story.

The only way to get the data you want is to let the other side collect it. Talk to your friends and neighbors. Vote accordingly.

 

[herrwalther]

Keep an eye out on any "poll" for the "margin of error." Usually it is not labeled and just given a +/- number. There are legitimate polling agencies such as Gallup that are benchmarks for polling. The margin of error on other polls like CNN or Fox is so high because of bias, they are trash. Besides, CNN and the like aren't going to "publish" a poll that doesn't fit their numbers. So our "win" really is a win.

 

[vamo]

Honestly online polls are such a terrible way to gauge the feelings of the public at large that I don't feel we're tainting anything that hasn't already been tainted beyond any usefulness. First just about everyone of these polls are posted on sites that are going to be frequented by a niche audience thats going to have different views than the public at large. Second voluntary response polls are one of the worst ways to get a statistically significant result, they tend to draw in only the people most passionate about the issue.

In conclusion don't worry its not corrupting anything that wasn't corrupt from the beginning.

 

[barnbwt]

How donating a buck to a pro gun charity when voting for every poll. Discourages packing of ballots and helps our side far more than any outcome of the poll could possibly aid the opposition.

TCB

 

[HammsBeer]

Understand this, those poorly worded 2A polls on typically anti-gun news sites are not about gauging "their" reader's opinions.

It's so when a poll skews largely in their favor, they can drudge it up every couple months and say "Look, it's true, 90% of people agree with our (insert anti-gun statement)". If the polls go in our favor, it simply goes away since it didn't fit with their slant on 2A topics.

Lets be real, most news site are not after truth, they want traffic and opinion polls that align and support their typical readership.

 

[Theohazard]

I just would like to have some idea of the correct info. That's all I want and I just see us making that impossible and that's the part that bugs me.

But these "polls" aren't even remotely scientific. Regardless of whether or not we intervene and skew the results our way, these "polls" are just informal online surveys that aren't even remotely an accurate representation of what the general public thinks about the issue.

Keep an eye out on any "poll" for the "margin of error." Usually it is not labeled and just given a +/- number. There are legitimate polling agencies such as Gallup that are benchmarks for polling. The margin of error on other polls like CNN or Fox is so high because of bias, they are trash. Besides, CNN and the like aren't going to "publish" a poll that doesn't fit their numbers. So our "win" really is a win.

I think you might be mixing up real scientific polling with these online "polls" that the OP is talking about. These online polls are not even remotely scientific or accurate; they're just informal surveys.

The polls you're talking about that include a margin of error are scientific polls that attempt to extrapolate the general public's views on a subject with some degree of accuracy. Now, those scientific polls can be manipulated depending on the questions asked or the polling methods, but they're usually far more accurate than these informal nonscientific surveys that this thread is talking about. Often CNN references scientific polls done by reputable polling firms like Gallup, so not all polls discussed on CNN are garbage.

 

[herrwalther]

I think you might be mixing up real scientific polling with these online "polls" that the OP is talking about. These online polls are not even remotely scientific or accurate; they're just informal surveys.

The polls you're talking about that include a margin of error are scientific polls that attempt to extrapolate the general public's views on a subject with some degree of accuracy. Now, those scientific polls can be manipulated depending on the questions asked or the polling methods, but they're usually far more accurate than these informal nonscientific surveys that this thread is talking about. Often CNN references scientific polls done by reputable polling firms like Gallup, so not all polls discussed on CNN are garbage.

That was my point. Services like Gallup do real polling because they use all the standard functions of statistics: margin of error, standard deviation etc. Polls that don't list or don't use these, the informal ones, are trash.

 

[javjacob]

Deepsouth I 100% disagree with you. I don't see how just doing nothing and letting the anti gun people win is going to help us? If there is a poll for people to vote in... vote in it! Unless I have misunderstood you.
Don't give up your first amendment rights by keeping your mouth shut.

 

[Theohazard]

That was my point.

OK. Some people don't understand the difference between a real scientific poll and an unscientific online survey. I misunderstood your post and figured you were one of those people. I apologize.

 

[Yo Mama]

Preach on Brother DeepSouth! I also agree with you 100 percent. Thing is though, you get that feeling you have to make that difference, and you end up participating and voting.

Rights are not up for voting, they are God given, unalienable, and non negotiable.

 

[lxd55]

I would cry for you deep south, but i am too bored.

 

[XD Fan]

Hitting these polls will not give us ammunition for the PR battle. Instead it is about not letting anti media have a propaganda tool with audiences that have no understanding about the nonexistent validity of such online surveys. If we can attack and "win" the survey, the survey results simply go away. If we don't "win" the results are used to show how the "majority" of Americans support whatever antigun issues is addressed.

 

[Twiki357]

I agree that the online polls are worthless other than for the organization to be able to say “There, see, we’re right” if the numbers go in their favor. But, I also consider the so called “Legitimate” pollsters (Like Gallup) results to be just as unrealistic. Just about any results that the polling organization wants can be obtained by the wording of the questions or the limitations of the potential responses or the demographics of those polled.

So, I will be happy to bombard polls to "win" and do ever I can to counteract even the slightest amount of propaganda material for the Antis.

 

[NoVA Shooter]

Voting in these types of 'polls' is not about us proving a point, it's about preventing the antis propaganda machine from using them.

Sure, no one is going to use these polls in a scientific study but I have seen countless time where local politicians or local anti-gun groups use these polls in an attempt influence/manipulate the masses. Many people form opinions based on the spoon-fed drivel they get from disingenuous sources. Let’s not give them the opportunity.

 

[pockets]

I agree DeepSouth, I feel the same.
The ones which make me really groan are threads entitled; 'Fire Mission, Hit This Poll'.

Online polls do nothing but feed the advertisers on the poll page.
Anyone who is going to use these polls as 'proof' of anything, is going to do so whether the 1,000,000-THR-Men/Women-Keystrokes 'hit it' or not.


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[MisterMike]

I have to disagree. Several years ago I held your opinion. Maybe I'm bitter or cynical now, but you fight fire with fire. The other side is more than willing to use non scientific data (if there is such a thing) for their cause. They may post 100 polls and only use the one we miss - and broadcast it as God's Truth because The People Have Spoken.

At some point we'll have to enter into a discussion about integrity. Honestly, I'm not sure where I stand in that discussion on this issue. Mainly because I want to win it too badly. Maybe you guys can school me here.

This is the way I look at it. I think that we all recognize that committed antis and 2A proponents are going to be unmoved by these polls. But, the average Joe or Jane isn't, in my mind, so sophisticated that they discern between these on-line popularity polls and real, scientific polling.

Given the herd mentality that so many of us are prone to, many of those middle-of-the-road types who see a poll that 80% of respondents are "against concealed carry" will be more likely to adopt that viewpoint as theirs. The more mainstream our viewpoint is viewed as, the more mainstream it becomes. There is value to making your opinions heard, even in nonscientific polls. The outcome affects perceptions and beliefs. And, ultimately, elections.