Quantcast

A Red guy went Blue

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by SHOOT1SAM, Jul 6, 2018.

  1. joed

    joed Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,418
    Location:
    Ohio
    All that matters is the OP is happy. I realize that owners will defend their choice to the death but in the end all that matters is what you're happy with.

    I've owned Dillon presses for a long time and have had problems from time to time. Never big issues, just minor. I considered the Hornady and if I had the opportunity wouldn't turn one down.
     
    refuse2bafool likes this.
  2. GW Staar

    GW Staar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,847
    I'm amazed!.....This thread actually has posts from Dillon owners who admit their presses don't always work perfectly.:D

    Kidding aside, there are many reasons for picking a progressive press......even green ones. I love my four green presses....2 progressives and 2 single stage. Would I recommend a green progressive to a novice right now.....probably not. And that's not because they are bad. It's just that I can't until I can get as good with my new Pro Chucker as I am with my Pro 2000 and can help a novice with it. (the green cast iron tank, the Pro 2000 is not for sale any more so I can't recommend that any longer either) But I see a lot of potential in the new one.....and RCBS is responding to their early adopters gripes.....a bit slowly for some....at least for us, computer degenerates, not known for much patience.

    Dillon 550's have been with us for a lot of years....most all the gotchas are either fixed or easily worked around. Personally, I want more than 4 stations. The 5 station 650 is more complicated, but it too has been around the block for years..... both have been improved by Dillon and tweaked by the smurf hoard (customers:p) to the point that good help is easy to come by.

    Hornady is almost there.....thanks to Nature Boy and others who are just fantastic fanatic (in a very good way). It's been around a long time too, and has been improved and improved. Remember, it's had time to be improved, Hornady customers, who love that LnL feature have been a patient group. Hornady has an advantage they share with Dillon (unlike RCBS) .... they don't have a parent conglomerate breathing down their necks....freedom to progress on their own terms.

    Lee is limited by their chosen market....they have to stay inexpensive. Patience is a virtue for their customers and a mechanical aptitude is a big plus. Lots of people load lots of ammo with Lee, and for the most part they can make it better than commercial.....so if money is limited....patience is present.....why the heck not?

    One last point.....features: # of stations, manual or auto-advance (full stroke or half stroke), case feeders, bullet feeders, tool heads or LnL bushings, powder measures, even motor drives. All those things are as individual as we are. Research is necessary to make expectations happen. No press is perfect, and the imperfect press that fits you best may not be the imperfect press that fits your best friend.

    I think we ought to be more tolerant of each others choices.......

    As for the new RCBS's? They are new.....that means you need to be brave, patient, and constructive if you buy one.....there are some new features not found in other progressives, like seven stations, new powder measure options, "M" die/bullet feeder combos that are really neat, and there's an extremely good customer oriented company behind them. If that doesn't intrigue you, buy one of the others.....and remember "New" means not much customer experience yet.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018 at 4:30 PM
  3. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    10,692
    I think everyone should try them all, then have an opnion based on actual use.
     
    GW Staar and kmw1954 like this.
  4. MikeInOr

    MikeInOr Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    286
    I started with an RCBS 4x4 progressive back in the 80's. It was pretty rough going but with perseverance and tuning I was able to get a hundred rounds a week from it. I gave up reloading... sold the RCBS 4x4 for $50 and included a letter of apology.

    In the 90's I had a buddy whose reloading career was cut short by a bad accident (twin girls) who talked me into his Dillon 650. He could barely tie his own shoes and he was able to produce ammo on the Dillon so I gave it a shot... I have been using it ever since.

    The number 1 issue I experience with my 650 is stupid .40s&w cases getting stuck in a .45acp case and jamming the press and breaking the primer punch pin. Number 2 problem with my Dillon 650 is the case feed arm likes to be a little sticky when it is really cold in the shop. If it is warm out this problem disappears. I need to get some low friction tape and fix the case feed slide one of these days. I have never had any problems with the primer feed on the 650. Setting up the case feeder to feed .30 carbine brass took some trial and error and patients but I eventually got it to work reliably with no further troubles.

    On the 4th of July I loaded up 800 rounds of 9mm in about 2.5 hours... loading the primer tubes being the most tedious part. I have never owned a Hornady press but like the dies of theirs that I own.

    I am thrilled with my 650 and do not understand why someone would talk someone else into a 550 over a 650. A buddy at work had a 550 and sold it to our boss to buy a 650 after he used my 650 for a bit.
     
  5. kmw1954

    kmw1954 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2018
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    SE Wisconsin
    How about finances. Some people just are not in the financial position to afford top of the line equipment, example of which is why you got yours used for I'm sure was a good price. While others just don't need the volume capable with a large progressive press and others just don't have the physical space. It really is just that simple.
     
  6. joed

    joed Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,418
    Location:
    Ohio
    I started out with a 550 and liked it. Two years later I started getting squibs, three times in three outings. Sold that 550 in one week and ordered a 650. I now tell everyone contemplating the purchase of a Progressive to get one that will accept a powder check die. It's not about "IF" you get a squib or double charge, but "WHEN", regardless of press color.
     
    GW Staar likes this.
  7. GW Staar

    GW Staar Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,847
    That's the ideal for sure! Agree 100% But face it, jmorris, you are one of the lucky few that can. I did get to try a Dillon 650 for a bit at a friend's before I decided against it and ordered the Pro 2000 years ago. Why did I choose something else? Cost of caliber changes was a big one (I don't have jmorris's generous hobby fund!).....speed and ease of caliber change (nothing is faster), primer tubes vs. APS strips was another.....option to have a 550-like manual advance but with 5 stations (to learn on) and the ability to ugrade to a 650-like auto-advance for $120 was third. (upgrading the 550 means selling it and buying the 650) Near unbreakable cast iron casting was still another.

    Hind sight? I would've chosen the 650, but not because I liked it better, I didn't. But only because RCBS started designing an aluminum P2K replacement instead of improving what they had. Could have started by adding a case feeder. Cost would have been minimal. IMO it was stupid to make a great versatile press an orphan.:fire:

    Shoulda learned from Dillon on that one.....Dillon makes both.....550 and 650 and then added a real cast iron press the 1050. But they didn't orphan anything.....for that kudos to Dillon. And their customer service is on par with RCBS's, excepting that in Europe.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018 at 5:24 PM
  8. Mr.Revolverguy

    Mr.Revolverguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,339
    What I did to make my LnL error free.




    I will not trade it.
     
  9. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    10,692
    There are lots of folks that call everything except Dillon’s “junk”, so you just have to be there to gather them up as they become available. As for the Dillon’s, as long as you buy them right or just hold on to them long enough they just gain value, with their warranty.

    After Obama’s re-election and sandy hook I sold a 650 for over $1,800 on ebay and bought a 1050 the next week, that’s now worth more than it was as new.

    Buy “right” and it costs very little or nothing to try them all out. I used to buy and sell LNL’s just to get the free bullets and sell the machine. One of the few guys running a belt fed 308 with JSP’s...

    In any case, most people that reload or shoot for that matter could afford any press that exists. If they knew what their wives spent on clothes, shoes and purses, that rarely get used, they would likely buy the best of them too...

    I remember being broke too and having to go in 50/50 on a press with my Brother over 30 years ago but we still got the best we could afford (the Dillon SD) and it’s still a good press. No one except Dillon still sells a design from back then much less gives parts away for free to keep them running. That’s the reason for the following.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018 at 11:22 PM
  10. DRAINSMITH

    DRAINSMITH Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2014
    Messages:
    293
    Location:
    s/w iowa
    It's funny how we all run into the same problem and sometimes we come up with the same fix and sometimes we fix the problem completely differently. If you go to "What clever little things have you invented or discovered that you can share" post on this form you will see that I posted the exact same problems that I fixed about a year before your videos. The first one is the lid on top of the bullet feeder. Now first off Did I come up with the idea of covering the bullet feeder to cut down the noise? NO. I was over helping a guy fix his primer feed and after we got it adjusted we did a run of 100 just to make sure it was working perfectly. As we were doing the run we continued to talk. Having trouble hearing each other he put a pizza box on top that he had cut two tabs in it. It cut the noise level down to where we could hear each other. I went home and measures the hopper and sat down at the kitchen table and cut a piece of cardboard and a 1" thick piece of styrofoam and another piece of cardboard about 10" around. When I was gluing it together my wife saw it and it reminded her that her pot lid handle was loose. She ran and got it for me to fix. Now it does not matter if I am in the middle of something or not her problems comes first. As I was tightening the handle down I noticed that it looked like it would fit. So I took it to the reloading room and tried it. Perfect. Now I don't have the balls to steal my wife's lid so I went down to the Salvation Army and found one. It cost me $3.00.

    Now the problem with the pivot body I didn't come up with the fix either. I saw a video where someone drilled the pivot body and the press and used a piece of threaded stock to fix his. Now, once again I didn't have the balls to drill into my press so I went a different route. Now after talking to Hornady on six different fixes you all should know that they came up with their own fix for this problem it is part number 399691 called cam block clamp. It is much better than any of the fixes that I have seen for this problem.
     
  11. Mr.Revolverguy

    Mr.Revolverguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,339
    Drainsmith you and I actually spoke about these fixes a year ago. I did not claim to be the original thought leader for these fixes if you listen to the video I actually gave THR props for guiding me down the road. I actually did drill my press but that didn't fix anything so I then came up with the bar stock fix. What's sad is I called Hornday about this part # and who ever I spoke to had no idea what I was talking about. So my bar stock trick is going strong.
     
  12. DRAINSMITH

    DRAINSMITH Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2014
    Messages:
    293
    Location:
    s/w iowa
    Wait I never claimed that you took credit for the idea. I just pointed out we all seem to run into the same problem. Sometimes we come up with the same fix but sometime you ca skin a cat a different way.

    As far as that part # go to the Hornady site and bring up the PDF on the Ammo-plant instruction manual and then go to the instruction on the case feeder and you will find what I am talking about. Next time you talk to the let them know it's the bracket that stabilizes the pivot block.
     
  13. Mr.Revolverguy

    Mr.Revolverguy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2007
    Messages:
    1,339
    I don't know drainsmith I still think mine is more rigid lol lol lol

    thanks for pointing me to the instructions it clearly displays the part and the installation.
     
  14. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    25
  15. thomas15

    thomas15 Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,179
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I have to agree with you and do in-fact make a similar point whenever the topic of "getting started in handloading" comes up. While I'm sure there are exceptions I would doubt that there are very many shooters that consume the amounts of ammo that a typical handgun competitor goes through per month and be satisfied with anything less than a good solid progressive press. As I have said, an all complete $200.00 press kit will make ammo just like a $200.00 firearm sends a bullet downrange. Doesn't mean that you will find many serious competitors using that firearm.

    I also think that there are some here and on the other forums who see bragging about their inexpensive firearms and reloading gear as a virtue. Funny I don't see that conversation at sanctioned matches.
     
  16. kmw1954

    kmw1954 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2018
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    SE Wisconsin
    That is sort of the same feeling I get when I constantly see bragging about expensive presses and expensive firearms and how those people seem to look down on anyone using one of those dreaded cheap presses or cheap firearms.
     
  17. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    10,692
    Yep, there are as many positions as there are people.
     
  18. rfwobbly

    rfwobbly Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2008
    Messages:
    4,065
    Location:
    Cornelia, GA
    A Red guy went Blue

    Whew! For a minute there I thought you wanted Hillary back ! :rofl:
     
  19. thomas15

    thomas15 Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,179
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Has it been your experience at sanctioned matches, in particular sanctioned action pistol matches that most of the competitors view using inexpensive firearms and reloading tackle as a virtue?
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018 at 10:05 AM
  20. jmorris

    jmorris Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    10,692
    I have won lots of matches with custom built SVI’s and STI’s but also won more than a few with Glocks that were very close to stock. The price difference from high to low is in the thousands of dollars.

    If a gun “runs” and has someone to run it, the gap is narrowed same as a press that runs. The thing that kills winning or loading is stoppages, as soon as your “speed” is zero, your score or average is hurt the most.
     
  21. kmw1954

    kmw1954 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2018
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    SE Wisconsin
    Not sure how competition shooting was added to the equation but OK. While I was more referring to forum talk in general such as was seen here that even a Dillon 550 wasn't good enough and at the very minimum a 650 is needed. Or as jmorris pointed out that he sold a Dillon 650 for $1800.00... That's fine also, there are many like him that have the need for that type of press while most of us need nowhere near that. As far as guns, I don't see a lot of it here on this forum which is one of the things I like but a couple others I visit there are some real gun snobs present. And they are not shy about it.
     
  22. DRAINSMITH

    DRAINSMITH Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2014
    Messages:
    293
    Location:
    s/w iowa
    I think many of you have lost the joy of shooting. Now, don't get me wrong, I would like to stack 10 bullets on top of each other like some of you. But I can't now or have I been able to do it in my past, and I don't see it happening in my future.

    We shoot at 11"X 18" steel targets. We have 15 of them at various distances. We try and hit each target three times each. 5 with a shotgun, 5 with pistols, and 5 with a rifle. All we want to do is hear the "clang" of the target being hit. We don't care if we hit it dead center or on the very edge. All we want is the "clang"
     
  23. higgite

    higgite Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    971
    No disrespect, but if you can't do it, you don't know the joy of doing it.
     
    DRAINSMITH likes this.
  24. thomas15

    thomas15 Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,179
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    ^^^ I agree with this. I know when thomas15 agrees with someone it makes for an awkward online social situation (so I apologize in advance higgite) but at least in my experience the better I shoot, the more I enjoy shooting. In order to make significant improvement in marksmanship skills it is necessary to put in time and effort and that requires a lot of ammo. By a lot of ammo I refer to many 100s or 1000s of rounds/month. At this point in my life I'm shooting about 1500+ rounds/month which requires the use of a good, solid progressive reloading press, plain and simple.

    On another note, it wasn't my intention to derail this thread into a discussion about competition rather I used an example to make a point. What I really want to say would be interpreted by some as being insensitive or the result of me being a snob. I'm actually in person, neither. I will be the first to claim that there is more than one way to skin a cat, that there are other ways of doing things that are just as good as the way I do things, that I made mistakes when I started handloading (and continue to make them) and that I'm not the ultimate standard by which all things are to be judged. I personally do not endorse any products nor do I express an opinion on something I have no first hand experience with. I do, for sure point out the shortcomings of some specific things that many posters recommend newcomers buy simply because it is safe for posters to make that recommendation.
     
  25. kmw1954

    kmw1954 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2018
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    SE Wisconsin
    thomas15, me being a short time member here from following many of your posts I find you to be fair minded and level headed in your comments. There are many different ways to look at this sport and just as many different ways to enjoy it. Same as any other recreational activity. Part of the point I was trying to get across is that if we polled everyone in the reloading forums everywhere I would bet that less than 50% of all people that reload actually Need a press as capable as a Dillon 650 or larger. Please notice the Need as there is a difference between Need and Want. Just as I really do not need a progressive to keep up with my needs though I have one because I wanted one.

    As time goes on, if you watch you will find I do not comment on any rifle reloading topics because I do not load rifles nor do I own any therefore I feel I have no business commenting on things I know nothing about. Same goes for reloading tools. If I don't use them I do not offer an opinion with the exception of presses as I feel I have used enough different presses that general impressions can be made. Though when I do offer impressions I also include the reasoning behind my impression

    In a previous post I made a comment that I hand load for 2 reasons. 1. because I enjoy it, 2. because it is a means to and end, the more I reload the more I can shoot! And actually the shooting is what it is all about.
     
    thomas15 likes this.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice