A reminder of why gun rights are good *PICS inside-some graphic*

[DirtyBrad]

Donating them is a great idea. Imagine what it would be like to go into a museum and see something you donated and to watch other people appreciating it.

What scares me more than the portion of humanity dedicated to hate and violence is the portion of otherwise pretty regular people that goes along with it because it's the system. Seems like there always a lot more sheep than wolves.

 

[Keith Wheeler]

What scares me more than the portion of humanity dedicated to hate and violence is the portion of otherwise pretty regular people that goes along with it because it's the system

There is pretty much no difference between the feeble-minded who would give away their ability to self defense to the state than those who put on jack-boots and "just follow orders".

Both refuse to be responsbile for their own actions. Their lack of mental and moral strength is disgusting.

Strength of mind, body, and action is what makes us human.

Hazak V'ametz.

 

[TimboKhan]

If I could, I wish I could go back and put a MP40 in the hands of every person who was taken away to the concentration camps.

A firearm is useless without the will to fight back.

The holocaust was horrible, but I have always wondered why there wasn't more resistance to begin with? The same holds true in China, where the Japanese slaughtered at least a million and possibly more than 10 million people (sources are widely varied, but the higher figures are typically the more accurate ones). I have a book that has a picture that shows three soldiers holding back a crowd of something like 2500 people. Everytime I look at that picture, I just wonder. Hell, we need not look any further than 9/11 for examples of people that should have and/or did resist.

Don't get me wrong, all of the things mentioned above were horrible, horrible events, and I am not trying to criticize them or minimize what happened. That would be insensitive and insane. What I am saying is that firearms ownership probably wouldn't have changed the course of history in any of these three examples. I would like to think that it would have saved all of them (and would certainly acknowledge that it would have saved some of them), but I just don't think the will to fight was there to begin with. Why do you think Isreal is so hardcore now? The holocaust remains freshly remembered in that government, and as a country, I think they will fight right down to the last man, woman and child to keep that from happening again.

 

[Keith Wheeler]

A firearm is useless without the will to fight back.

The holocaust was horrible, but I have always wondered why there wasn't more resistance to begin with?

Please read Jewish Resistance in Nazi Occupied Eastern Europe by Reuben Ainsztein. It will answer your questions.

Do not believe the hollywood crap about the Jews just rolling over and not having the will to fight.

I have a book that has a picture that shows three soldiers holding back a crowd of something like 2500 people.

This is what I mean. Just three soldiers? Who took the pictures? Did there happen to be a halftrack carrying some guys with MG34s behind that, hmmm? The first image in this post shows one American soldier with a half dozen Germans. I guess that means the Germans didn't have the will to fight? Still images only tell a tiny fraction of the story, and that gets even worse when politically charged captions are added.

The reason there wasn't more resistance is very simple. Ainsztein concludes that there wasn't more resistance because they lacked the arms to do so. Yes, there were many other factors, but lack of arms was a major one.

 

[Ivy Mike]

Thanks for the kind words folks, and I'll speak to my father about donating them as he actually owns them. In truth, there are about 200 pictures taken in various parts of Europe both during and after the fighting ended. As far as getting them duplicated, would that be something a good print shop or photographer could do?

oh, and Technosavant, my great uncle took those, not my uncle. I ain't that old.

antsi, I'm not sure what kind of vehicle that is. All I know is that my great uncle wrote that it was a tiger on the back of the picture. If anyone could identify it, I'd be grateful. The back of the picture says "New recoiless weapon sure is a honey. Burt got another Tiger."

A few of the pictures have captions.
The one with the American captain says "Capt. Smith hamming it up"
The one with the little boy says "Omar, company shoe-shine boy and mascot. No parents."
One of the pictures of bodies simply says "dachau concentration camp" and another says "bodies."

 

[SoCalShooter]

I will definetly remember. Seen similiar pictures before, I doubt 1 million Jews if they had been armed would not have defended themselves as long as they had the will to fight.

ON another note and just a quick one. Atheism is good, it balances the world out just like christianity, Islam etc. You dont need religion to do good things and be a good person, religion allows people to do evil and make it conciousable.

 

[History Prof]

As far as getting them duplicated, would that be something a good print shop or photographer could do?

Yes, to both. But every archive I've ever done research in also will also have the equipment (those that have a photo archivist, that is). If/when you donate it, the *will* make their own dups, which involves photographing the photograph to obtain a negative, then using the negative to make prints for researchers. If you describe the collection before donating it, they may agree to give you free copies of the dups just to get their hands on it. If not, they might be willing to dup it for you at cost, which would be cheaper than a photographer, and cheaper than they would charge researchers for copies.

 

[Satch]

A reminder

My brother was in the European War front and seen some of the Kill Camps and one day we got a package from him with some things he'd picked up from German prisoners,etc.Along with that was what looked like a bar of soap that was light brown in color.When he got home he told my mom what it was.Yes it was soap,----made from human fat rendered from the poor devils burned up in the camp ovens.That and shoes,clothes,glasses, and many other things taken from prisoners the SS sold to the German people and made Millions off the war. My mom buried the soap someplace on our farm and would never tell us were.

 

[JohnL2]

Protect our right to keep and bear arms. Advocate responsible firearms ownership.
Everyone has a dark side, but let your better side rule the gun. Then you are on the road to be a better person.
And we can all keep evil at bay.

 

[HowardC]

WWII IN PICTURES

When I was a kid, in the middle '50's, my older brother brought home a set of 4 books, entitled WORLD WAR II IN PICTURES, or something close to that. I can remember pouring through them over and over again, seeing the horrors of the war and the plight of the GI's, and of the civilians involved. There were many pictures of the liberation of the concentration camps, etc.
The books covered the Pacific theatre as well, so I got an idea of the Japanese campaigns. It was intriguing for a 10-12 yr old, not really comprehending the gravity of the pictures, and actions. But, as I got older, it remained cemented in my mind, and gave me a drive to search out further history events.
It's hard to believe there are people who adamantly refute the whole period.
Not much else to say....
-HowardC

 

[Rich K]

Clean, thanks for posting these. A visual reminder of why "Never Again" is so important. When my uncle Ralph, who served in Europe during the war, was asked about the camps, all he said was "I can still smell them." This was in 1987.

 

[Blackfork]

Just like us.

IMPO, just like us today, the Jews in Germany couldn't believe what their own government was doing. They didn't WANT to believe it. They clung to the belief that it might happen to OTHER Jews...but THEY would follow rules and co-operate and nothing would surely happen to THEM. They would be good German citizens, hardworking and law abiding. They would even turn in the refugees, the radicals, the zealots and show the government how loyal they were.
Sound like any gun owners today? The shotgunners and hunters think THEY will never be swat-teamed, since they don't have a pistol or a black rifle or an AK. Most gun owners think if they just follow the laws and stay out of the governments view then nothing will happen to THEM. Just co-operate. The only people that the gov will come down on are the troublemakers, the rabble rousers, the militia nuts, the full-auto folks, the gun show people, the guys who try and make 90% finished lower receivers...THOSE people.
Who frankly, are asking for trouble, of course.
The time to resist for the Jews was when they were healthy and in their own homes, not 50lbs underweight, sick, starving and herded into the gas chambers. Resistance would have been even better when they were healthy, in their own homes and organized and ARMED.
But they didn't. So they died.
But it will never happen to us....we vote Republican!

 

[Nitrogen]

One of the biggest reasons I keep guns.

 

[LaVere]

I tweaked some of the pictures if you want to look

http://www.pbase.com/lavere/temp

 

[Sistema1927]

And to believe that there are those who still deny the Holocaust.

It is to Eisenhower's credit that he documented these atrocities, and ordered average Germans to witness this horror, due to the fact that he knew that there would be those who would refuse to believe that this could happen.

 

[WolfMansDad]

Clean97GTI, thanks for the post. My great uncle was also at Dachau. He was a corporal in the American army, and he told us about fighting the SS building-to-building. He said that he arrived after half of the camp had been taken, and was told to go into the other half of the camp and round up the remaining guards, who refused to surrender.

I was just a kid when he told us all this, so my details are sketchy.

 

[DirtyBrad]

Everyone has a dark side, but let your better side rule the gun. Then you are on the road to be a better person.
And we can all keep evil at bay.

Very well said, John.

 

[counterman6]

Let's give thanks...

Let's give thanks this holiday that we're able to enjoy what we have, where we have it. I keep thinking of the thread posted the other day about a .22 short shell found in London and the chaos that ensued. I went to lunch today and blew off some steam with my pistol while some guys shot trap and some others freely talked about the "state of the nation". The Nazi government would have killed us all in front of our families. Give thanks, give thanks, free people.

 

[PirateJoe]

Originally Posted by Blackfork:
But it will never happen to us....we vote Republican!

i don't want to turn this into a political discussion, but c'mon.

 

[sfhogman]

Working in a VA hospital, I have given more than a little thought this season to our veterans....and active duty personnel.

If there are any veterans in your family celebration tonight, please thank them for their service. If you know any active duty personnel that you can reach, please thank them for their service. If you're near a VA hospital or nursing home, and you feel like dropping by, please thank them too.

Then have another look at these pictures and thank whomever you feel like thanking for the men and women of our military who stand watch for us this evening, and every evening.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[Martin Aston]

Those are historically important photos and they definately belong in the care of a museum. Thanks for sharing them with us.

FWIW, I lost family in the Warsaw Ghetto where the uprising in 1943 kept the SS at bay for nearly a month. Of course, if they'd been better equipped they coulda, woulda, shoulda...but they weren't. Because it wasn't part of the culture to be armed.

Fortunately, for us, we do live in a culture where gun ownership is and always has been a right.

But it's really an unfair application of hindsight to wonder why there wasn't more resistance or whether it wouldn't even made any real differance. Jews have been shoved around and shuffled around for thousands of years and when the Germans started the deportations they generally believed that they were merely being sent to labour camps. ("Hey, guys, I think they want us to build some more pyramids..."). And by the time they got there they were already half dead from starvation to be confronted with gun towers and dogs and large Valkyries with riding crops... All they did was believe in god and try to survive. Any resistance would have been dealt with harshly. Which isn't, of course, to say there wasn't any. Just way too little and way too late...

FWIW, I consider myself a pacifist, generally, when it comes to war because as a species I believe we should be able to do better than that, by now. But I'm a proud gun owner because I won't be vicitimised by my pacifism. I will defend myself and home against any beligerant intrusions against my personal, individual right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. From anyone and especially Republicans...

 

[antsi]

-------quote-------
I'm not sure what kind of vehicle that is. All I know is that my great uncle wrote that it was a tiger on the back of the picture. If anyone could identify it, I'd be grateful.
--------------------

I agree with the others here who have identified it as a Sherman (allied tank) with the turret blown off. At first, I was fooled by the opening in the front of the hull and was thinking that was the mounting for the vehicle's main gun, but I now believe I was mistaken. That is the mounting for the machine gun (secondary armament). The main armament was in the turret, when this tank had a turret. Now that I have been corrected, the hull shape and the suspension of the road wheels is unmistakable - it is the remains of a Sherman.

 

[Gifted]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M4_Sherman
Not a Sherman. Didn't think so when I saw the angle on the glacis plate. Looking at the other pictures, the rounded corners I'm thinking of are later models, but the machine gun mount is in the wrong place. The shape of the glacis plate also doesn't fit the shape of the Tiger I or II. Not to mention the running gear.

Not sure what tank it actually is though, I'm just certain it's not either of the above.

 

[LadySmith]

IMPO, just like us today, the Jews in Germany couldn't believe what their own government was doing. They didn't WANT to believe it. They clung to the belief that it might happen to OTHER Jews...but THEY would follow rules and co-operate and nothing would surely happen to THEM.

Blackfork nails my sentiment exactly.
We jump through unconstitutional and nonsensical hoops for our guns. "It's the law."
We bend over backwards, forwards and sideways to be responsible gun owners. "We're not THEM (gangstas, goblins and such)."
We read about people who were legally armed being hurt and killed by government enforcers and count our blessings that it wasn't us. "It was an unfortunate incident, investigations will begin..."
We're whipped into frenzies of doubt and fear and from there it's only a short step to "A (insert imminent disaster here) is approaching. Due to the size of the evacuation/relocation, we have to move as many people as we can as efficiently as possible. Leave all personal belongings except for your ID. Please, step into the cattle cars."
What the Nazis did was unprecedented. The Jews didn't know what to expect and could not believe something like that would ever happen. We know what happened and still believe that being good little citizens is all that it takes to keep us from harm.
Yes, I did just read "A Nation of Cowards."
Now I'm going to go pig out on turkey and chill out.

 

[velojym]

+1 for Blackfork. The Jews shouldn't have let it go far enough for our help to have been needed in the first place.
And, you'd have to go way back, before WW1 to realize that meddling has caused a bunch of unnecessary war. Hitler was merely one symptom of a much larger overall problem (fiat money was a large factor over there).
The Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto, with a mere handful of stolen weapons, made an impressive last stand. If only they'd done so before they'd been disarmed...
If we travel down the same path, who will rescue us? The UN?

As for religion, I've known plenty of good atheists, agnostics, and other heathen sorts, and plenty of evil True Believers. We're people, and will behave as such regardless of our philosophy, and blind faith in an old book doesn't automagically make a person 'good'. It works the other way, too. My wife is a christian, and I think she's the bee's knees.
But, like party politics, folks quickly put on the blinders when 'their' guy (or gal) is accused of anything untoward.