A shotgun for my needs

[bdjansen]

Hi,

I'm thinking about buying a shotgun. I'm interested in shooting clays. Trap, skeet, I don't know much about either.

My friend and I are also thinking about duck/snow geese hunting in the winter.

Thirdly, I don't have much money to spend so I think that limits me to a pump shotgun.

I'm not interested in a Mossberg vs Remington debate, that's been done to death. But I am more interested in what version of an 870/500 I would want.

-What barrel length?

-Advantages of wood vs synthetic?

-What is the "Rem Choke" in regards to the 870?

-I shoot long guns left handed, is this going to make a real difference in my choice? I don't see why I would need a left handed 870.

-What does "Wingmaster" mean as far as the 870?

 

[1KPerDay]

The mossberg safety (top of the receiver) is much preferable for lefties. The wingmaster is the "top of the line" 870.

Probably synthetic, 26 or 28-inch would be most versatile, with interchangeable chokes (that's what 'rem-choke' means).

Lots of varying opinions to follow.

 

[mswestfall]

I'm not a synthetic kinda guy. Bbl length is more important to the swing weight/balance point than it is to how the gun patterns. Clays' shooters tend to shoot longer bbls; longer than 28" (especially Trap shooters).

Either of the guns mentioned are a fine choice including the Wingmaster.

Would you consider a used gun? A Winchester Model 12 or an Ithaca can be purchased in the same price range as a new Wingmaster. But you will get a fixed choke; not interchangeable chokes.

I would also recommend that you look for a gun with a rib; preferably vented.

Just my 2¢.....

 

[RNB65]

The 870 Express (wood stock) or the 870 Express Synthetic (sym stock) in 28" are both excellent low cost, general purpose shotguns.

Synthetic stock is cheaper. That's about the only advantage I can think of. Butt ugly.

Wood stock is easier to modify if you need to have a gunsmith adjust it to fit you better. I like synthetic rifle stocks, but I much prefer wood on shotguns.

The 870 Wingmaster is Da Bomb, but it's going to cost you an extra $300 over the Express models.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_870/
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[bdjansen]

Would you consider a used gun? A Winchester Model 12 or an Ithaca can be purchased in the same price range as a new Wingmaster. But you will get a fixed choke; not interchangeable chokes.

I have no problem with used guns. It's just harder to find used ones around here. Plus you have to know how to check it out and what different models are worth. And I don't know that stuff. But I'll look when I'm at the shop.

Could somebody explain the "choke" thing to me? What does it do?

I would also recommend that you look for a gun with a rib; preferably vented.

What is a "rib" and what is "vented"?

 

[Virginian]

Being a righty and having shot a lefty, I would look for a used Model 870 left hand with a 3" chamber and a 28" barrel with Rem Chokes. A 3" chamber will handle all 2-3/3" and 3" shells, but a 2-3/4" chamber will not accomodate 3" magnum loads (i.e. - ducks and/or geese).
If shell casings bouncing in your face don't bother you, get the same thing in a right hand. The Express versions are much less polished of finish than the Wingmasters, but from my experience either will work long after you don't.
Choke controls the expansion of the shot cloud (to an extent) after it leaves the muzzle. Tighter choke (full) holds the pattern tighter making it more effective at a longer range. It also makes it harder to hit with at a shorter range. You decide what you are trying to do.
A rib is a raised piece of metal that runs along the top of the barrel and aids in sighting according to most people. Vented means it is not solid but has air spaces underneath - saves weight and dissipates heat.

 

[Dksimon]

I agree that the 3" chamber and a 26" or 28" barrel.
For snow geese a 12 gauge would be good but I much prefer a 10 guage.

I have an 870 and I love it. I have never really shot any shotguns other than various 870's so I couldnt tell you which is better.

 

[chas08]

Remington 870 super magnum or a Mossberg 835. Both sell for under $400 (around here) both shoot 2 3/4" - 3 1/2 " ammo. The big 3.5's are an advantage on geese when shooting large steel shot. Both are reliable "workhorse" guns for their price. I own a super-mag, It's been great.

 

[Capstick1]

The "Wingmaster" is simply a more expensive better finished version of the Remington 870. You really can't go wrong with either the "Express" or the "Wingmaster" version of the 870. It's one of the best pump guns out there. I can shoot good with either a pump or a semi. I spend most of the time shooting skeet and trap at the local shotgun range. I'll go through about 300 rds of ammunition in a day. The semis are alot easier on my shoulder than an over/under or a pump and don't leave black and blue marks like the latter ones do. The semis are also good if you're shooting skeet and you need to get that second shot off fast on doubles. The reason alot of people choose over/unders is because they don't have as many moving parts and don't break down as much as the other types of shotguns do. This is kind of trivial but if you're one of these guys that have the time and money to go through 6 to 10 thousand rounds a year or more I can see why Over/Unders would be so popular for this type of sport shooting. I don't really worry about it too much. If something breaks on one of my semis I'll simply replace the broken part in question and keep shooting the gun.

 

[Virginian]

Sorry, I was not basing my recommendations on using steel shot. I hate it. With tungsten matrix or Hevi-shot, a 3" 12 is all you need. If you want to shoot steel, I do think you need a 3-1/2" 12 or a 10 gauge. And some Tylenol with the 3-1/2" 12, and a gun bearer with the 10. I have owned both. I would rather pay more for FAR SUPERIOR shotgun shells.
"If God had intended people to shoot over and unders, their eyes would be one on top of the other."

 

[chas08]

I would rather pay more for FAR SUPERIOR shotgun shells.

I agree completely. There is no finer waterfowl load than the new tungsten polymer blends (Wingmaster HD, Hevi-Shot, etc) But they are not economicaly viable for someone on a budget. $3 - $4 a shot can turn into the better part of a $100 dollar bill for a good morning shooting with todays generous limits. Whereas steel in even the largest loads goes down the barrel for a $1 a shot or less. I use both. 3inch Wingmaster HD size BB and 3.5 inch steel size T for geese. Both will kill cleanly at 70 yds. For ducks I like 2 3/4 inch #4 HD or 3 inch #2 or #3 steel, again both will kill cleanly at 40 yds. The important thing is to buy the gun that gives you the most options, whatever it may be. And be sure it fits.

 

[Milkmaster]

For lefties, consider an Ithaca model 37 pump or Browning BPS if you see them. They are both bottom eject models and are reliable. Bottom eject works well for left handers who don't want the spent hulls in their face etc. Bottom eject also works well for those of us right or left handed who bird hunt standing next to a guy to our right. He doesn't recieve a hot spent hull in his collar etc. I don't see many bottom ejector models at the trap range. Some guys not familiar with bottom eject look to make sure the receiver is open etc.

I know Bass Pro still sells the Browning BPS new.

The Ithaca 37 can be found used unless you want to pay a great deal for one of the new ones. They are lightweight and mine used to have substantial recoil. That might get a bit old shooting clays in great numbers.

870's have been around since dirt and are a reliable steel receivered pump. A Wingmaster is a polished up more attractive version with wood stock and forend. It looks nicer and may be a little smother if that is important to you, but the round comes out the same end just the same! REMOCHOKE is just Remington's name for chokes that can be changed as opposed to a fixed bore choke.

Also consider a Winchester 1300 pump. They were discontinued in 2006, but new ones are still out there usually for a bargain price! Parts are plentiful and the fit
is better for some of us.

For a general purpose shotgun with many uses, I choose the 28" ribbed barrel. That combo works for just about anything you want to use it for in hunting. A new gun usually comes with multiple chokes to use for different purposes if you choose to change it.

Synthetic stocks are durable and take abuse well. I am older and fancy nice looking wood with shiny blued barrels. I have an affection for the beauty of that type of shotgun. If that doesn't matter to you, then synthetics are cheaper anyway.

Should you decide to really get into clay shooting, you may decide to deviate from the pump towards a softer recoil gas operated semi-auto. You can buy a hardly used synthetic Remington 1100 for about $400. I saw one just like that at a gun show last week for $350

Beretta and others have nice semi-autos as well, but they are a bit more pricey for a guy just getting started.

Whatever you get, be sure to get help with fitting! A cheap beater shotgun that fits the person shooting it will always out perform an expensive model with poor fit to the person using it.

Don't forget to enjoy all this while your involved. That makes life worth all the trouble!

 

[scythefwd]

chas, I would love to only pay $4 for a round, but I only hunt big game and those sabots ain't cheep. You can get a mossberg 500 with removable chokes, a trophy slug barrel (rifled, integrated scope rail), and several chokes (full, modified cyl, and turkey if I remember right) for less than 300 in the fall usually. Get what you feel comfortable with.. it will play more of role in how much you like the gun than the build quality. If it doesn't fit, you will pay much more for it than just the purchase price.

 

[bdjansen]

Hey guys, thanks for the advice.

I went to the store today and looked at their used guns. They had a lot. I took note of some of the better condition pump guns that were 12 gauge and a long enough barrel.

-Remington Model 10 - $200
-Savage 67 - $165
-Remington Model 31 - $200
-Winchester 1200 - $175
-Browning BPS - $350

Any of these stand out to you guys as a good deal?

I like the fact the Browning ejects downward. If I were shooting a right handed gun lefty would I be getting hit in the face with shells or would they just be passing in front of my face?

They also had quite a few SxS and auto loading guns. I didn't really look at them that much. Should I look into those guns as well?

 

[Dave McCracken]

The Model 10 is an ancient design, and oft finicky.

The Savage has a clouded rep.

The 31 is a classic, but many are just plain tired and not my first choice for a new shotgunner.

If kept clean, the 1200 does the job and the price is reasonable if condition is good.

The BPS is hard to take apart, but an excellent choice. Price again is good if condition is also.

HTH....

 

[sharpshooter01]

I would look hard at a BPS
http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=011B&catalog_=B
I have had 3 Remington 870's with no problems, but if I was to go back to a pump it would have to be a BPS. I had a stalker in 10 and 12ga. and loved them both, with the bottom ejection and with you being a lefty that would work good for you. Also it is alot easier to sell a bottom eject than a left handed shotgun. If you are wanting to do the whole trap/skeet to goose/duck thing I would go ahead and buy a 3 1/2" chambers gun too and have it all covered.

 

[chas08]

Of those you listed, the BPS stands out to me. I've owned a 10 ga. BPS for the better part of 20 years and it has been very dependable. I have had the oportunity to shoot a 12 ga. on one occasion. They are heavy compared to some pumps and a little tricky to disassemble. On the up side, they tend to stay very clean in the harshest conditions because of the closed reciever, bottom ejection design. And the top tang safety is a big plus for a left handed shooter. Around here a new one sells for just under $500 for the 3.5 inch chambered model and about $425 for the 3 inch chambered model. Good luck and best wishes on your purchase, let us know what you finally decide on. And remember "You" are the only one you have to please.