A soldiers thoughts on the M9

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Considering that captured M1 Carbines were anecdotally popular with the Wehrmacht, I'm sure the same was true for M1911A1 pistols. Even without spare ammo, if seven rounds were the only thing between you and the Almighty, it was worth carrying.
 
The Beretta M9

I carried a Beretta 92F for quite a while as a civilian cop, and as a combat arms instructor in the ANG from 1991 until 2000 (when I retired).

I've had two Beretta pistols. I bought the first in April of 1986. I had somewhere around 35,000 rounds through it when the FRAME cracked on Valentine's Day, 1997. I sent it back to the factory and they replaced it with a brand new gun with night sights at no charge, and included a nifty Beretta lock blade knife . . .

The only other problem was that I broke a locking block about the 18,000 round mark. That's a user-replaceable part (cost $75 in 1992)

The new Beretta I shot a LOT the first few years I owned it. Now, not as much, although I still shoot enough to keep my hand in. In 2000 I bought one of the Beretta factory-made .22 conversion units (which they called a "practice kit"). I shoot that fairly frequently. My practice kit is reasonably accurate and is not ammo sensitive.

We never shot any of our M9s in the Guard enough to break any slides. Most of the guns assigned to the Combat Arms unit (the ones that most people shot when they came for pistol qual) got AT MOST 1200 rounds a year. Weapons assigned to somebody, like the Law Enforcement Section of the Security Police, and the side arms of the civilian Security Police Officers on Base got shot twice a year (usually in April or May and then again in September or October or November) and they totaled about 250 rounds a year.

Lots of guns and other mechanical devices have had functioning problems when combined with the fine, talcum powder like dust of the Middle East. And lots of the problems with M9s used in Iraq have been traced to poor quality after market magazines that the US government bought from a company called "Checkmate". Using OEM Beretta or Mec-Gar magazines, you probably won't have a problem. I have heard that if you take a Checkmate magazine body and replace the spring with a +10% spring from Wolff gun springs, they work somewhat better. (Supposedly the new Checkmate magazines have a smooth finish rather than a rough phosphate finish that works better in adverse environments)

For an "average user, if you replaced your recoil spring and locking block at whatever interval Beretta recommends, and if you replaced the mag springs in any magazines you routinely kept loaded for service use every two or three years, the gun should be perfectly reliable.

The biggest problem with the Beretta M9 from a shooting standpoint is the circumference of the grip and the reach from the trigger to the backstrap. Shooters with small hands have all sorts of problems with the M9 because it's just too big for their hands.

I have big hands and long fingers and a Beretta M9 or Sig 226 works fine FOR ME, but those guns are just too big in the grip for some people.

That's one of the major reasons that GIs bitch. The gun is too big for their hand and so they don't shoot it very well, but they don't have enough experience with handguns to understand exactly why they have trouble, and they repeat a lot of half-assed latrine rumors they heard from some other goof in their squad, without understanding the real issue . . .

The Beretta is also mechanically complex. Look at the schematic diagram sometime and see how many little gears and pins and springs and stuff are involved in the safety/decocker assembly.

So a lot of the complaints you may hear about the M9 probably come from the inexperienced and uneducated, but there are some legitimate problems. The grip is too big and the gun is more complex than it need to be.

On the other hand, having a safety you can use to sterilize the gun during routine loading and unloading at issue and turn-in in the armory is very handy when your users are a bunch of 18 and 19 year olds . . . and anybody gets fried and inattentive when they're working 12 or 16 hour shifts pulling perimeter security or doing convoy escorts or whatever in Iraq or Afghanistan.
 
Between the end of WWII and the switch, we didn't buy new 1911s, we just kept refurbing the ones we had.

I doubt that. To replace ALL of the spings, the trigger, the barrel, slide stop, action bar, sear, hammer, hammer strut.. takes 10 minutes. I literally just swapped out my sear, sear spring, and hammer (almost a complete tear down) last week while converting my 96D centurion to SA/DA. There is no screwing with the toggle, etc. I appreciate the 1911 design, but a full refurb of one will take longer than swapping out the parts on the M9. Even if there is no fitting required.
 
I literally just swapped out my sear, sear spring, and hammer (almost a complete tear down) last week while converting my 96D centurion to SA/DA.

Just out of curiosity, how do you safely decock the pistol? Or did you replace the slide as well?
 
devon, the same way you safely decock a 1911. Put a thumb on the hammer spur, pull the trigger, let it start going forward. Once it's about 1/2 way down, release the trigger (which allows the FP block to fall back into place), and gently let the hammer down. Its the same way I decock any SAO gun or DA/SA gun that doesent have a decocker. That, or I clear it, and then dry fire. There is NOTHING unsafe about putting the hammer down in a controlled manner. If i'm rushing, I'm not going to be decocking either. The only difference between this, and any other beretta 96 now is that there isn't a thumb safety.

Next time you're up in Nova, we'll see if we can hit the range. I'll let you try it out.

Yes, I know not all 1911's have a firing pin block. I'm talking series 80 here.
 
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I like the M9 but I like the Glock 17 better. Used both in the Army. Glock was just more simple which in my mind makes a better "combat" weapon. M9 has an external safety that many "new" soldier or shooters need. My humble opinion. ;)
 
I carried one in Iraq and never had any trouble with it. I have relatively small hands for a guy my size (6 foot 225 pounds) so it was slightly too big for me. I was able to shoot just fine and never had trouble qualifying. Never jammed or had any other issues from it. Recoil was very light as well.
 
Also, if you don't like the slide mounted safety, check out the Taurus PT99. Its a beretta 92, that was built on beretta's machines, in beretta's factory (after taurus bought it all), from beretta's designs. The biggest thing they did was move the safety down to the frame and off the slide. They also modified the mag release, so they wont take beretta mags, but if you want to, the mag release can be modified to use beretta mags I think.
 
9mm made a perfect wast of a great design, however Berreta made up for it when they introduced the same pistol in .40
 
Also, if you don't like the slide mounted safety, check out the Taurus PT99. Its a beretta 92, that was built on beretta's machines, in beretta's factory (after taurus bought it all), from beretta's designs.

It really doesn't matter in the long run - but they may have used Beretta equipment 20-30 years ago (they bought it at the end of the 1970s). But, I can guarantee they aren't using Beretta equipment any longer.

Like i said - it doesn't really matter, but I always see Taurus fan state this. Its no longer true.
 
There is NOTHING unsafe about putting the hammer down in a controlled manner. If i'm rushing, I'm not going to be decocking either.

I understand where you're coming from, and it's not my job to try to tell you how to operate your firearms. And while I have plenty of experience doing the "Hollywood" decock with my 92FS, I will never attempt it with a live round in the chamber. To me, the critical difference between your setup and a 1911 is that if you have to reholster a 1911 after a few rounds, you can reactivate the safety. Your setup gives you the choice of reholstering in single action mode, or performing a manual decock.

I respect the fact that you can do this safely, and have probably done it a hundred times without a ND. However, that's not right for me, and I wouldn't feel comfortable standing in front of you while you did it, especially after a defensive shooting incident.
 
FWIW, the orignal Beretta 92 had the frame mounted safety. Taurus just kept that design active even after Beretta made the change to the slide mounted safety, probably to satisfy government entities comparing it to the S&W's in contract purchases, etc.
 
Dev - I don't carry that one. And, it's not the same as a 1911 in so much as I have visible confirmation that the FP safety is in fact in play before I lower that hammer. It's not hollywood, its been the only way to decock a SAO revolver or handgun since the beginning. You cant decock a 1911 with the safety on either. No different than carrying a glock really.

Decockers are a relatively new invention.

Shipwreck, you also can't verify that they aren't using the beretta equipment. Either way, its the design spec that matters most out of that equation. To unequivically state that it isn't beretta's equipment is as dubious a claim as saying it is.
 
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