hit or miss
Member
You guys really crack me up.
I totally agree though.
Scott
I totally agree though.Scott
A special request for the revolver forum about the S&W locking mechanism
- Thread starter Correia
- Start date
- Status
I am a new guy, so bear with me. I joined to learn about current production revolvers, after being away from them for some time. I learned alot! I thank y'all for the speedy refresher. I've wanted to know all sides of every issue, concerning revolvers. I was trying to get enough info, to make a good decision on what to buy.
I see where your coming from, about not crapping in a fella's thread about a new S&W revolver he purchased. That's an unkind thing to do.
But let me get this strait. Only those that like such guns, will talk about S&W's new revolvers? New guys like me, will only get one side of the issue? We just pretend that S&W still makes desireable, and reliable revolvers? And we don't say Ruger is stronger? I think the revolver section is going to get less interesting, and useful, if that's the case. My .02
I see where your coming from, about not crapping in a fella's thread about a new S&W revolver he purchased. That's an unkind thing to do.
But let me get this strait. Only those that like such guns, will talk about S&W's new revolvers? New guys like me, will only get one side of the issue? We just pretend that S&W still makes desireable, and reliable revolvers? And we don't say Ruger is stronger? I think the revolver section is going to get less interesting, and useful, if that's the case. My .02
johnny blaze
Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2006
- Messages
- 381
The subject of the lock comes up way too often. We really need some concrete information about the functioning or malfunctioning of the lock. Some real information that can be verified.
I just bought my first lock S&W, and I was just looking at the lock.
You really gotta ask yourself, Will this fire 5 shots or six shots before the lock malfunctions, I goota know.
And to address the above mentioned post about S&W and Ruger. I live on a farm, but I am not going to use my revover to drive nails in a fence, so why do I need a Ruger?
I just bought my first lock S&W, and I was just looking at the lock.
You really gotta ask yourself, Will this fire 5 shots or six shots before the lock malfunctions, I goota know.
And to address the above mentioned post about S&W and Ruger. I live on a farm, but I am not going to use my revover to drive nails in a fence, so why do I need a Ruger?
Nightcrawler
Member
If someone starts a thread, or asks IN a thread, "what do you think of the S&W internal lock?", or "what potential problems could there be with internal locks on firearms?" then no one is going to mind if you then post your thoughts and opinions on this matter.
However, I started a thread comparing two similar models of Taurus and S&W revolver, since I'm probably going to buy one or the other this year. We didn't even make it to the end of the first page before someone made a "find one without THE LOCK" comment. I even stated that the lock is a non-issue for me (obviously if I'm contemplating a Taurus), but that didn't stop the "find one with NO LOCK" comments.
(As an aside, I've noticed that if you type THE LOCK in ALL CAPS, you're more successfully expressing your righteous indignation over the matter.)
Come on, guys. It's just getting out of hand. If we have a new poster on here asking about a new S&W revolver, going on a tirade about "THE LOCK" may or may not convince him to not buy the gun. I think some people think that if they do this enough, then S&W will stop putting the locks on the guns. If you're trying to get a campaign going, this is about the least efficient way to do it.
I, too, wish S&W, Taurus, and (now) Ruger wouldn't put locks on their guns. They serve no function. However, there's something special about the S&W locks that just brings out the Captain Hyperbole in people. (I recall a couple posters making comments about how S&W is urinating on the Constitution, or some such, because of these things.)
Seriously. If you want to actually make a difference, get a petition started. Start collecting (even if its online!) signatures. Lobby Smith & Wesson to do a run of guns without locks in them.
However, I started a thread comparing two similar models of Taurus and S&W revolver, since I'm probably going to buy one or the other this year. We didn't even make it to the end of the first page before someone made a "find one without THE LOCK" comment. I even stated that the lock is a non-issue for me (obviously if I'm contemplating a Taurus), but that didn't stop the "find one with NO LOCK" comments.
(As an aside, I've noticed that if you type THE LOCK in ALL CAPS, you're more successfully expressing your righteous indignation over the matter.)
Come on, guys. It's just getting out of hand. If we have a new poster on here asking about a new S&W revolver, going on a tirade about "THE LOCK" may or may not convince him to not buy the gun. I think some people think that if they do this enough, then S&W will stop putting the locks on the guns. If you're trying to get a campaign going, this is about the least efficient way to do it.
I, too, wish S&W, Taurus, and (now) Ruger wouldn't put locks on their guns. They serve no function. However, there's something special about the S&W locks that just brings out the Captain Hyperbole in people. (I recall a couple posters making comments about how S&W is urinating on the Constitution, or some such, because of these things.)
Seriously. If you want to actually make a difference, get a petition started. Start collecting (even if its online!) signatures. Lobby Smith & Wesson to do a run of guns without locks in them.
Last edited:
Shoe Fitting Test
Go hard core.
If the moron lock zombies are loose,lock the thread.
If anybody wants to lock a thread,mention locks.
If anybody uses the word lock,lock the thread.
Please enter plus-1 to join the anti-lock thread moron club.
After joining you may use the phrase,LOCK-1,to indicate what a
savvy gun guy you are.
Friends don't let friends plus-1.
Go hard core.
If the moron lock zombies are loose,lock the thread.
If anybody wants to lock a thread,mention locks.
If anybody uses the word lock,lock the thread.
Please enter plus-1 to join the anti-lock thread moron club.
After joining you may use the phrase,LOCK-1,to indicate what a
savvy gun guy you are.
Friends don't let friends plus-1.
ugaarguy
Member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
- Messages
- 13,828
You know Gaucho, there's nothing in the THR rules barring discussion of legitimate concerns with a gun's features, lock included. The forum rules do however prohibit personal attacks. True, using the generalized comment "moron lock zombies" doesn't directly attack anyone. However, it's certainly a rude generalization of folks who have legitimate problems (extra points of potential failure, ruining the lines of classic american revolvers, lack of new revolvers available without the lock) with operational or asthetic aspects of the lock, or S&W's business practices with said item.
Husker1911
Member
Please tell me you're kidding.
My Kalimba is out of tune
Plus-1
Take it easy long time member and well meaning poster.
Explaining humor means its not funny.If you seriously are upset or
offended,I apologise for damaging your feelings.
Personally the only aspect of the lock conversation that interests me is
how to instruction on how disable the smith lock.
Thanks to the infinite # of threads on said subject,mission accomplished.
Please toss me off as a dismissible and inexperienced moron.
Internet and all that.
Plus-1
Take it easy long time member and well meaning poster.
Explaining humor means its not funny.If you seriously are upset or
offended,I apologise for damaging your feelings.
Personally the only aspect of the lock conversation that interests me is
how to instruction on how disable the smith lock.
Thanks to the infinite # of threads on said subject,mission accomplished.
Please toss me off as a dismissible and inexperienced moron.
Internet and all that.
454c
Member
Maybe I'm reading the wrong threads but, I see just as many opinions on plastic, stainless, or mim and nobody get's their undies bunched about that. For some reason, the lack of lock support seems to hurt some folks feelers more.
Using Nightcrawlers thread as an example again, AFTER Nightcrawler mentioned his lack of concern about the lock,there was one post that a poster gave his opinion of the lock after answering the OP question. ONE. One post and people started crying. COME ON !!!!!!
And those of you throwing the Luddite term around, you will have a spot reserved at the front of the line to spend your money on the first smart gun that hits the market. Doesn't matter how reliable it is, it will be new so you have to buy it and accept it. Wouldn't want to be called a Luddite now would we ?
Using Nightcrawlers thread as an example again, AFTER Nightcrawler mentioned his lack of concern about the lock,there was one post that a poster gave his opinion of the lock after answering the OP question. ONE. One post and people started crying. COME ON !!!!!!
And those of you throwing the Luddite term around, you will have a spot reserved at the front of the line to spend your money on the first smart gun that hits the market. Doesn't matter how reliable it is, it will be new so you have to buy it and accept it. Wouldn't want to be called a Luddite now would we ?
Nightcrawler
Member
It's not my thread. It's EVERY thread. Every time somebody asks about a new S&W, the "won't buy a gun with THE LOCK" comments start.
Frankly, it's frustrating. I'm trying to get some info on a Taurus revolver and it begins to turn into a debate about S&W's stupid internal lock. You can talk about a new Kimber gun coming out without a bunch of guys going "I won't buy a gun with MIM!".
(Of course, it helps that every 1911 manufacturer, from Colt to Kimber to STI, uses MIM parts.)
I see. Since I didn't ask anyone's opinion on the lock, and since the topic in discussion was a Taurus revolver (and Tauri have had locks for fifteen years now I think), why would someone then tell me their opinion? It wasn't germaine to the discussion in the least. I don't like it when street preachers come up and tell me I'm going to hell, either. It's becuase "THE LOCK" is SUCH and emotional issue for folks that they just can't let it be.
But that's not the problem. I asked about a 640 and someone said he preferred the older ones. Fine, right? The problem is that after the gnashing of teeth about "THE LOCK" starts, the threads almost invariably go downhill, turning into the same old "AR-15s suck or don't they" slash "9mm vs. .45" argument that never gets anywhere. I don't think any one poster MEANS for that to happen, but it just kinda does.
Imagine if there was a group of AR-15 haters here. (Quite a stretch, I know... ). But imagine if in nearly every single thread regarding AR-15s, they felt the need to chime in with "I'll NEVER buy an AR-15" and the subsequent "+1"s.
Can you not see how that would get old really quick?
Frankly, it's frustrating. I'm trying to get some info on a Taurus revolver and it begins to turn into a debate about S&W's stupid internal lock. You can talk about a new Kimber gun coming out without a bunch of guys going "I won't buy a gun with MIM!".
(Of course, it helps that every 1911 manufacturer, from Colt to Kimber to STI, uses MIM parts.)
I see. Since I didn't ask anyone's opinion on the lock, and since the topic in discussion was a Taurus revolver (and Tauri have had locks for fifteen years now I think), why would someone then tell me their opinion? It wasn't germaine to the discussion in the least. I don't like it when street preachers come up and tell me I'm going to hell, either. It's becuase "THE LOCK" is SUCH and emotional issue for folks that they just can't let it be.
But that's not the problem. I asked about a 640 and someone said he preferred the older ones. Fine, right? The problem is that after the gnashing of teeth about "THE LOCK" starts, the threads almost invariably go downhill, turning into the same old "AR-15s suck or don't they" slash "9mm vs. .45" argument that never gets anywhere. I don't think any one poster MEANS for that to happen, but it just kinda does.
Imagine if there was a group of AR-15 haters here. (Quite a stretch, I know...
). But imagine if in nearly every single thread regarding AR-15s, they felt the need to chime in with "I'll NEVER buy an AR-15" and the subsequent "+1"s.Can you not see how that would get old really quick?
Diamondback
Member
.......did I mention I still hate S&W because of the position they took during the Clinton years ? We might as well make this fun !
- Regards
Nightcrawler
Member
Diamondback, why you got to be like that? Why are you trying to start something?
Oh hell, it's all in good fun, right?
BOYCOTT RUGER! BILL RUGER WAS A COMMIE WHO DIDN'T WANT TO SELL HICAPS TO SERFS! HE PEED ON THE CONSTITUTION!
Wow. Hey, this is fun! Who's next? Which gun company should we pick for our next Two Minutes Hate?
Oh hell, it's all in good fun, right?
BOYCOTT RUGER! BILL RUGER WAS A COMMIE WHO DIDN'T WANT TO SELL HICAPS TO SERFS! HE PEED ON THE CONSTITUTION!
Wow. Hey, this is fun! Who's next? Which gun company should we pick for our next Two Minutes Hate?
Diamondback
Member
That's the spirit ! After we trash a few more gun manufacturers lets start in on Jim Zumbo !
- Best regards to everyone !
Nightcrawler
Member
Someone asked how to disable the lock.
You remove this piece. (Thank you to Gunblast.com for the image and info.) You can replace it later if you want, the piece just pops right out. It does leave a gap by the hammer, though. I just used Blue Loc-Tite to hold mine in place.
Now, there are those that have said that altering the gun will more or less cause you to get convicted of manslaughter when otherwise you would've been acquitted. I live in a place that's less crazy about stuff like that, so it's not a concern for me, personally. (And I don't know about the police disassembling my revolver while it's in the evidence locker to see if I've loc-tited the locking plate or not.)
Each person is going to have to make is own call on this, though. Some jurisdictions are very unfriendly to armed self-defense cases. But the same idea has been suggested for using custom guns, hand-loaded ammo, guns that are too powerful, etc. Some have even suggested that the only guns one should carry should be similar or identical to the ones the local police use. I can give no legal advice one way or the other. From a purely technical standpoint, however, that's all there is to removing the S&W internal lock.
You remove this piece. (Thank you to Gunblast.com for the image and info.) You can replace it later if you want, the piece just pops right out. It does leave a gap by the hammer, though. I just used Blue Loc-Tite to hold mine in place.
Now, there are those that have said that altering the gun will more or less cause you to get convicted of manslaughter when otherwise you would've been acquitted. I live in a place that's less crazy about stuff like that, so it's not a concern for me, personally. (And I don't know about the police disassembling my revolver while it's in the evidence locker to see if I've loc-tited the locking plate or not.)
Each person is going to have to make is own call on this, though. Some jurisdictions are very unfriendly to armed self-defense cases. But the same idea has been suggested for using custom guns, hand-loaded ammo, guns that are too powerful, etc. Some have even suggested that the only guns one should carry should be similar or identical to the ones the local police use. I can give no legal advice one way or the other. From a purely technical standpoint, however, that's all there is to removing the S&W internal lock.
ugaarguy
Member
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2006
- Messages
- 13,828
Since you bring it up, I have a question. Ok, so we've established that S&W is going to Hades for the lock, right? What about Taurus? Does the good of their paid NRA membership included with every new gun sold cancel out the evil of their internal locks? Or does the counteracting good of NRA memberships and evil of integral locks just send them to purgatory, or some other form of limbo? I'm just curious.Wow. Hey, this is fun! Who's next? Which gun company should we pick for our next Two Minutes Hate?
454c
Member
Yes, I realize things get old at times but, like meeting the person on the street, after the first few words we can usually tell if we want to hear/read what they have to say and skip it.
Darn, I missed the Two Minute Hate by a few minutes !
Darn, I missed the Two Minute Hate by a few minutes !
Diamondback
Member
......it's probably "a wash" as you suggest. But....now that I think of it....Taurus are made in Brazil, which has strong, evil, Socialist tendancies .....but then Brazil also has beaches full of lovely women in thongs. So I guess we're back in limbo again ???.....or would be hell......for the impure thoughts I'm having ????
- Regards
azredhawk44
Member
No, Taurus isn't going to hell for their lock. It doesn't interfere with the trigger mechanism under recoil. The S&W lock is designed to move in the same direction as the gun under recoil... it shares a pivot plane. The Taurus lock moves perpendicularly to the direction of recoil and CANNOT engage while firing.
It can also be removed by a hammer swap.
It also doesn't put holes in the sideplate of the revolver.
Stainz
Member
I miss wheel locks. There was just something comforting about the smell of a hank of smoldering rope hanging off your handgun.
I still haven't forgiven that ad-man at S&W who, after bending over to the Russians, remade the good .44 American cartridge by removing it's bullet's step, decided to still call it a .44 - actually a .44 RUSSIAN. What was he thinking? The .44 American bullet was .44... that RUSSIAN was only .429... sure, the one diameter bullet was easier to make (Aha! They bowed to a manufacturing simplification back then!). Of course, the lie continued - 1907 brought the same thing, only longer - the .44 S&W Special - 1955 brought the same thing, again longer, - the .44 Magnum. The lie continued... it was/is only .429. Who could trust such a company? It started in 1871...
Of course, I love S&W's - my all-time favorite revolvers. And, what an assortment of neat innovations over the years. I particularly like the little 'L' on the left side... it helps me, in my more confused moments, to remember how to grab the thing for proper use. Maybe Crimson Trace can make a grip that will illuminate that L for low light conditions? Hmmmm
Well, time to go... my AM meds await. And please, this talk of Zombies has me scared... especially after seeing Billary on the tube...
Stainz
I still haven't forgiven that ad-man at S&W who, after bending over to the Russians, remade the good .44 American cartridge by removing it's bullet's step, decided to still call it a .44 - actually a .44 RUSSIAN. What was he thinking? The .44 American bullet was .44... that RUSSIAN was only .429... sure, the one diameter bullet was easier to make (Aha! They bowed to a manufacturing simplification back then!). Of course, the lie continued - 1907 brought the same thing, only longer - the .44 S&W Special - 1955 brought the same thing, again longer, - the .44 Magnum. The lie continued... it was/is only .429. Who could trust such a company? It started in 1871...
Of course, I love S&W's - my all-time favorite revolvers. And, what an assortment of neat innovations over the years. I particularly like the little 'L' on the left side... it helps me, in my more confused moments, to remember how to grab the thing for proper use. Maybe Crimson Trace can make a grip that will illuminate that L for low light conditions? Hmmmm
Well, time to go... my AM meds await. And please, this talk of Zombies has me scared... especially after seeing Billary on the tube...
Stainz
I wonder about that as far as locks go. I mean, I can see the argument - even though I don't agree with it - if a safety has been disabled or a trigger is set to a really light pull. But a lock wouldn't come into play in a self defense case.
Where it probably would come into play is if someone, say a child, got hold of your gun & had an accident. Again, I don't agree with it but it isn't hard to imagine that logic.
GunNut
Member
I'll try......
But i'm still not buying a S&W w/lock as of yet.
But i'm still not buying a S&W w/lock as of yet.
+1 GunNut
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