A step forward in Army recruit training

[No_Brakes23]

Getting your weapon within days of getting to Basic, and then cleaning & handling it everyday?

An excellent idea.

That's what I did at MCRD in '96. 3 months straight, cleaning and handling it daily. 2 months of rifle manual, 1 week of snapping in, 1 week of range time, (500-600 rounds fired, at 200/300/500 meters) and a couple weeks of running around Pendleton with the rifle and all our gear.

Oh, and then after bootcamp another 20 odd days of MCT, (Which is a VERY abbreviated version of the School of Infantry for all us POGues. Dissassembly, cleaning, reassembly, etc of M249, M240G, M2, Mk19, M203) So 4 months of handling the rifle, 500+ live rounds and 200+ blanks, and lots & lots of cleaning.

Yeah that helps a little with familiarity.

 

[DRZinn]

Sounds like pretty much the same thing we Marines have been doing since I-don't-know-when. But carrying them in Condition 1 is a huge improvement.

 

[roo_ster]

Wow, actual good news coming out of Army training.

The emphasis on equine manure to the detriment of actual training really chapped my 4th point of contact, when I went through Basic/AIT. Thank G-d that, at my unit, we had a whole lot of training dollars to burn up at the range(s).

 

[Langenator]

most of the m-16s i've seen are fn, the only colts i've seen were really old - many of them were converted lowers that used to be a1s as far as i could see.

I've got FNs, Colts, even a couple of Berettas in my arms room. What's really fun is the ones that come out of depot maintenance and when you open them up the bolt group is made by a different manufacturer than the receiver. Got a lot of those.

 

[cxm]

Disheartening

It is disheartening that the Army can find plenty of time in basic for Diversity training, EEO, sensitivity et. al. but can't find more time for marksmanship.

Now, I guess I have become an "old guy." i recall when Marines received extra pay for good marksmanship. The Army recognized good marksmanship and valued it. Qualificatin did not involve just 40 rounds and 23 hits.

Maybe the Army is starting to get it with respect to marksmanship... I hope so... it would sure be nice if they could move some of the "feel good" training to a later time and give recruits better marksmanship training.

FWIW

Chuck

 

[Trebor]

I attended the Small Arms Firing School at Camp Perry last year and then shot in the M-16 EIC match a few days later. The Army Maksmanship Unit supplied the M-16A2's we used in SAFS and for the match.

Man, were those some old rifles. My rifle for SAFS was built by GM Hydromatic Division. Another rifle I saw was marked COLT AR-15 and was also overstamped with "A2" over an old "A1" stamp. I can only wonder how many times that weapon was rebuilt.

All the rifles were rebuilt to A2 standard and looked like they may have been some of the first ones rebuilt 20 years ago. The "new" uppers were worn to the point that they really matched the lowers.

I took a quick look at about 10 or 15 rifles on the line. I didn't see a single FN built rifle. The majority were Colts.

Edit for typos.

 

[M109A6 Paladin]

Trebor: I doubt the M16 was ever "re-built".

Maybe a lot of parts were changed out on it, but it was never rebuilt.

 

[Langenator]

CXM-

EO, Prevention of Sexual Harassment (POSH) is only budgeted for 4 hours in Basic Training,. In reality in only takes 2, tops. Add to that a couple more hours of "Acceptable Behavior" (yes, we have to teach these kids that) and you're up to 4 hours total, 8 on the budget.

Pre-Marksmanship Instruction (PMI) gets between 20-30 hours, before we even go to the range, plus a few iterations of shooting light in a simulator before they get real bullets.

Once we get to the range, privates have 8 days of putting rounds downrange. This will increase to 9 when we actually get the CCOs, PAQ-4Bs, and NVGs to conduct that training.

 

[cxm]

Training Time

Interesting information...

Still, another eight hours of marksmanship training would be time better spent than on the fuzzy feel good stuff. I talk to young comany commanders who complain their training schedule is choked with mandetory "social feel good" stuff at the expense of actual soldier skill training... including marksmanship.

I'm not sure what "pre-marksmanship" training is... so can't comment on that, but 30 hours is a lot of time for it.

Unfortunately, have to show my age here, but when I did marksmanship training range week was just that... and we taught the student how to shoot the M14 rifle (told ya I was old) which while a much better weapon than any M16 around was not as easily mastered. It took a total of five days to teach basic marksmanship and qualify the student. There was some additional time for quick kill etc. in addition. I don't recall very many troops who failed to qualify in my company... though the NCOs may have taken care of those problems without my being aware of them.

The Marines used to (mabye still do for all I know) offer extra pay for soldiers who were good marksmen... it was a g ood idea then... and I expect it would be now as well.

Good marksmanship is most important...

FWIW

Chuck


Langunator wrote:

EO, Prevention of Sexual Harassment (POSH) is only budgeted for 4 hours in Basic Training,. In reality in only takes 2, tops. Add to that a couple more hours of "Acceptable Behavior" (yes, we have to teach these kids that) and you're up to 4 hours total, 8 on the budget.

Pre-Marksmanship Instruction (PMI) gets between 20-30 hours, before we even go to the range, plus a few iterations of shooting light in a simulator before they get real bullets.

Once we get to the range, privates have 8 days of putting rounds downrange. This will increase to 9 when we actually get the CCOs, PAQ-4Bs, and NVGs to conduct that training.