Army tragedies lead to weapons training reform

[stevekl]

This never happened in the Civil War. There were never any accidental explosions or horse stampedes or broken axles.

During the First World War transport ships never sunk due to storms or a captain's incompetence.

During the Second World War there were never any problems with communication between different countries.

During Korea there were never any problems with the military and any foreign governments.

During Vietnam there were never any problems between the American people and our fighting forces.

If there are any problems today, it is George W. Bush's fault. Period.

Clearly. Also, the president personally ordered the mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Gharaib.

You can read about this, and more, in my new book, "Liberal logic for fun and profit".

 

[mongo]

Shermacman, that is one large load of horse-hockey.

 

[Burt Blade]

Mongo, turn on your sarcasm detector!

 

[SMLE]

The idea of the blanks actually gives me the willies. At close range, they will still kill or severly injure/maim.

 

[mongo]

BB, I sure hope that's sarcasm... I'm too tired right now to tell.

 

[shermacman]

Get some sleep, Mongo!

 

[c_yeager]

I hate to say it, but is flat out just going to happen from time to time. No matter how much training you give them, if you put a whole pack of armed 18 year olds into a foreign country where people are shooting at them accidents/negligence ARE going to happen. better training will help to minimilize this, but simply isnt completely avoidable. Its tragic, but this is just one of the MANY ways to die in a war.

 

[Langenator]

Yes, NDs/ADs will happen. I was once issued an M9 that was so worn that the safety slipped off every time I removed it from the holster. I was extremely careful with that gun, but I shudder to think what could happen if it's issued to someone who isn't.

That being said, all reasonable efforts should be made to minimize such accidents. 'Reasonable' meaning they don't impair combat effectiveness.

 

[BluesBear]

Those rules were eased about six months ago, and now Army recruits keep their weapons 24 hours a day in a program called "weapons immersion.

Sounds like they need to return to the good ol' "This is MY Rifle. There are many like it but this one is MINE" philosophy.

 

[TheDutchman]

I frequent a range near Fort Hood where the 1st Cav and 4th ID are station. The Soldiers come to the range to shoot more often then not, pistols. They are horrible shots and lucking they do not kill someone with there lack of gun safety. To me the Army's has a total lack of pistol training and need to train troopers better. BTW the where bright spots like the two West Point officers who where on the pistol team.

 

[p35]

I know a guy who did a hitch in the Singapore army. He said that they had an old helmet hanging in the corner of the barracks and would shoot blanks at it out of boredom. Even at 15-20 feet, the blanks made some pretty impressive dents in the helmet!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I know a guy who did a hitch in the Singapore army. He said that they had an old helmet hanging in the corner of the barracks and would shoot blanks at it out of boredom. Even at 15-20 feet, the blanks made some pretty impressive dents in the helmet!

Having spent a year with the Singapore Army developing training for them, I'm amazed they weren't WEARING the helmet when they did that.

 

[p35]

No question that he was a draftee with no real motivation to be in the Army- did what he had to do and moved on. No doubt that attitude was reflected in their approach to a lot of things.

 

[BluesBear]

Draftee?

Did something happen while I was in "The Home" that I missed?

 

[Cosmoline]

Well this is just the latest episode in the slow and painful transition the DOD is having to make from Cold War thinking to War on Terror thinking. A few decades ago small arms were considered antiquated and largely irrelevant by nearly everyone except those silly Marines. They were considered a security problem more than a tool of the trade, and they were treated as such. The only ones who might actually need to fight with such archaic weapons were some special forces types, but that's about it. Of course, the military has been given a rude wakeup call. Small arms fire in close quarters battle is still killing a lot of soldiers and wounding many more.

 

[medmo]

Where the heck are the NCO's? I would bet the farm that this wasn't the first time that this soldier or another in his fire team, squad or platoon treated his weapon with negligence and unsafely. This is sloppy, inexcusable and undisciplined behavior. I'm sure there is already policy and training that deals with this kind of negligence in the Army. It is the NCO's responsibility that this kind of stuff isn't going on. My only experience with this kind of occurrence is where a young Lcpl. dropped an M60 with a partial belt still loaded. It did fire. He paid for this mistake missing sleep while digging a standard sized grave in sand. After grave digging he taught a familiarization M60 class to each squad. It was my responsibility as an NCO to make sure that he paid enough to remember, learn and improve.