A tipping point?

[HOOfan_1]

I don't think we're at any risk of restrictions being put in place at this time.

Yeah, they seemed to back away from the more gun laws rhetoric a bit when it was revealed to be an act of terrorism by radicalized militants.

Especially considering the Charlies Hebdo and other Paris attacks were carried out with weapons which were illegal in France....and illegal in the US as well.

 

[psyopspec]

---

 

[2ifbyC]

I see this latest attempt by Obama and his minions to institute more gun laws as a way to conflate the real issue: Islamic terrorism. Since Obama is unwilling to recognize the real threat and has no plan, he continues to use ever gun crisis as a platform to preach for more gun control. However, the vast majority of Americans are not buying it. Instead they are buying more guns to which Obama’s chief propagandist, Earnest (oxymoron) called “tragic”.

The liberals are trying to incite their base for the next election. They are incapable of understanding that gun control is not in the top tier of American’s concerns. The Republications are handling this effectively; voting down any new gun control proposal and ignoring the Democrats foolish cries.

Reaction by the liberals to the SB violence is far from a “tipping point”. The perpetrators were Islamic terrorists and not on the “no fly” list, the weapons were purchased legally in a state with the toughest gun control laws; those laws did not stop them from violating the “gun free zone” or magazine limit. In spite of those facts, they are demanding more gun control laws. It’s the nature of the beast or to quote the current Geico commercials, “it’s what they do”.

 

[Ignition Override]

HOOfan1:

The Wall Street Journal stated last week that the AKs used in the Paris mass murders were semi-deactivated guns bought legally in Slovakian shops.

The barrels had probably been replaced, or the perforations sealed and re-worked.

The point will be whether terrorists (in Europe or US/Canada) might still have easy access to AKs which don't need a new barrel, in case Slovakia will require AKs to have barrels fully-deactivated, not just perforated in several places.

 

[joem1945]

I don't see much of a chance of confiscation happening. While some people may turn them in, others will hide them and some will fight. The news media would have a field day with stories of shoot outs and people injured or killed.

 

[tactikel]

Tipping point in the direction of gun ownership. People are apprehensive, upset, and angry. The day after the Paris attack I decided to get my concealed carry license. The day after the San Bernadino attack my Wife said she wanted to get her CCL, and I was to teach her how to operate my AR!

 

[jarhead]

I don't think there is much chance of any genuine anti-gun legislation being passed... Like so many other things, both sides have polarized to their far corners and there isn't any middle ground. Virtually all successful legislation is a series of compromise (some recent exceptions should serve to prove and reinforce this rule)... Neither side is going to compromise - so it will remain an impasse.

 

[Ignition Override]

The other question might concern the US public's new perception and expectations, regarding prices for sport utility rifles following more reports on tonight's news about Pres. Obama's desire (or intention) to use the ATF to bypass Congress.

Tomorrow's visit to the gun show might reveal some price increases, but with the large quantities of AR type rifles it might not be noticeable, unless sellers as a group somehow decide to bring far fewer rifles to the show(s).

 

[Somewhere in NM]

Given the current Congress, and attempt to use the ATF instead of legislation may harm that agency's budget.

 

[22-rimfire]

That has proven to be a hollow threat by Congress so far.

 

[barnbwt]

"Given the current Congress, and attempt to use the ATF instead of legislation may harm that agency's budget."

Very good point; whatever comes from the desk of O, it will come to us by way of the Bureau. I say we slash their funding again, just as soon as my tax-stamp applications clear

I'd much rather see legislation defunding that agency, barring them from field-work apart from licensee inspections (use the FBI to set up your stings/investigations; makes it harder to illegally conspire like F&F without people finding out), stripping agents of their enforcement authority (again, FBI can arrest/prosecute people), and most importantly, sending every last dollar raised from tax stamps or licenses to the Bureau's budget column, which will instantly transform the NFA process into a model of bureaucratic efficiency.

TCB

 

[DonP]

Well, it's just another grass roots anecdotal example, but Thursday I had to drop some papers off at my father's lawyers office in a Chicago suburb. I had my NRA Instructor ball cap on when I did it, don't even think about what I have on much.

The Paralegal that runs the office "Vanessa" nice, middle aged lady took the papers and pointed to the hat and asked, "What are you an instructor for?". I told her Basic Pistol and I've been approved by the Illinois State Police to teach Concealed Carry.

She asked if I taught women! I told her about 40% of my classes have been women with a lot of couples too. She said her Bunco Club (of all things), was talking for the last two weeks about the violence in Chicago and the Cali Terror attack and about buying their own guns and learning to shoot them, just in case.

I gave her a card and told her we can organize the classes around their schedule. Then her boss the lawyer came out. He'd been listening, and offered to let them have the classes in their conference room, after hours if he could come too with his wife. His junior partner and his wife are a maybe.

Just one anecdote, but IMNSHO people that are willing to spend time and hundreds of $ in this crappy economy for a firearm and training are a lot more dedicated and serious than someone that just wants to rant emotionally and won't ever reach for their own checkbook.

 

[BSA1]

Abraham Lincoln said "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer" when criticized for some of his cabinet appointments.

With the recent report of the Republican establishment leaders meeting last week discussing strategy to keep Trump for getting the parties nomination for President if he wins the majority of delegates we must be very vigilant of the Republicans in Congress.

Cruz is also being viewed as a serious threat to Republicans.

If the Republican Party chooses to refuse the nomination to Trump or Cruz we can expect a "moderate" candidate that will likely support some type of gun control.

2016 is a dangerous time for gun owners.

 

[harrygunner]

The California attack is the equivalent of "We've been mugged" in the sense of "A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged". Most have figured out, this won't be the last attack. Those with any sense are probably rethinking their position on self-protection.

This country is definitely not uniform when it comes to self-protection. Having left California, I'm in a place where, without exaggeration, I'll always pass a gun shop on any random local drive. One trip, I counted eight. There's regular commercials for guns on TV, including Glock ads about concealed carry. Even here, there's been a jump in applications for concealed carry permits since the attack.

I suspect there would be serious consequences for anyone coming for our guns. The NYT does not represent the country.

 

[joem1945]

BSA1: This might be what the GOP has in mind. It looks to me as if both parties want to keep the "Good Old Boy" politics running in DC. A lot of smoke and mirror's designed to placate the public of both parties while not making actions to improve the country. These politicians will do most anything to stay in power. They don't want anybody to rock their boat and cushie do nothing job.

 

[MachIVshooter]

The NYT does not represent the country.

Don't tell them that!

I have a lot of family in NYC, and if there's one thing I've noticed, it's that people who live there have a very distorted, deluded view of the nation. I edited a silhouette map to reflect what the USA seems to look like to an inhabitant of NYC:

 

[barnbwt]

Might just be coincidence, but that's pretty much how all the Europeans I met in Spain perceived the US geography. They knew where more national parks were than I did, though

TCB

 

[harrygunner]

Haha. Driving across a bridge or through a tunnel into the City does feel like entering a different world.

I'm familiar with the NYC wine party discussions where all the world's problems are "solved". They simply never include pesky human nature in their derivations. Then they applaud each other over their brilliance.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Well, it's just another grass roots anecdotal example, but Thursday I had to drop some papers off at my father's lawyers office in a Chicago suburb. I had my NRA Instructor ball cap on when I did it, don't even think about what I have on much.

The Paralegal that runs the office "Vanessa" nice, middle aged lady took the papers and pointed to the hat and asked, "What are you an instructor for?". I told her Basic Pistol and I've been approved by the Illinois State Police to teach Concealed Carry.

She asked if I taught women! I told her about 40% of my classes have been women with a lot of couples too. She said her Bunco Club (of all things), was talking for the last two weeks about the violence in Chicago and the Cali Terror attack and about buying their own guns and learning to shoot them, just in case.

I gave her a card and told her we can organize the classes around their schedule. Then her boss the lawyer came out. He'd been listening, and offered to let them have the classes in their conference room, after hours if he could come too with his wife. His junior partner and his wife are a maybe.

Just one anecdote, but IMNSHO people that are willing to spend time and hundreds of $ in this crappy economy for a firearm and training are a lot more dedicated and serious than someone that just wants to rant emotionally and won't ever reach for their own checkbook.

I never open the subject of guns (trying to keep a low profile out here in Blue country), but lately other people from whom I would never have expected to hear such things either say they're thinking about getting a gun or already have one. At that point I of course "confess".

 

[Warp]

The gun grabbers went all in after Sandy Hook. There has never been a stronger emotional kickoff to try and get asinine legislation or executive action through than at that time.

They failed miserably.

You guys give them way too much credit and make it sound as if there is actually substance to their bullcrap agenda.

Please stop giving them all this credit.

 

[jarhead]

I was reading a Washington Post article yesterday where it lamented that researchers were "mystified" about the fact that violent crime has gone down, while gun ownership has increased.

What struck me is these same folks are never "mystified" if a report can in any way tend to support an anti-gun agenda... People were still being attacked in the last mass shooting and our government was already on the news demanding stricter gun control, long before anyone knew any facts.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Haha. Driving across a bridge or through a tunnel into the City does feel like entering a different world.

I'm familiar with the NYC wine party discussions where all the world's problems are "solved". They simply never include pesky human nature in their derivations. Then they applaud each other over their brilliance.

Bingo.

 

[yokel]

People are getting more extreme and bold in their views and opinions. More and more people, politicians, and celebrities are saying more extreme things. Calling for total bans, forced buyback, repeal of the second amendment ect, ect.

They had to unravel at some point and let that shrewdly calculated facade collapse.

There is a small satisfaction in knowing how chagrined they must be now, having that deceptive veil removed.

And others start to see you for who you really are.

 

[barnbwt]

"People are getting more extreme and bold in their views and opinions. More and more people, politicians, and celebrities are saying more extreme things. Calling for total bans, forced buyback, repeal of the second amendment ect, ect."

It's called a 'time of revolution.' I don't mean that in the scary way, necessarily, but there are numerous instances in history where the popular discussion became markedly more political or philosophical in response to failing social systems. The late 1600s-1730s was a similar time, where all sorts of new ideals and concepts of governance were being felt out by the 'cool kids' of their era, ultimately culminating in popular revolts in many places (most notably the US) and fundamental restructuring of most western governments. The difference for us, this time, is that we have systems and traditions that greatly favor peaceful change over violent or forced adjustment for the most part, so in all likelihood whatever unrest we see in our nation will eventually self-correct for a time.

Right now we are witnessing a radical realignment of our dominant political factions, with a couple issues besides firearms & beyond the scope of this forum as the catalyst. Gun control was a shallow, but slippery slope at the federal level that could reliably win small victories for whoever was peddling it for between fifty and eighty straight years. It helped act as a 'front man' for all sorts of social-good enforcement and restriction programs all the while. That reliability as a winning issue appears to have come to a close. If anything, gun control has become a liability, a luxury only afforded attention by those with a lock on power, which these days is no single super-dominant party. I think it will take the Democrats some getting used to, not having this plank in their platform to span all the disparate urban-interest groups they've wrangled together, and the prospect frightens a great many of them. If they can lose gun control, they can lose other crucial uniting issues, in their minds. And that is why they are so desperate to salvage something resembling a win at this point; they need gun control to be viable again.

TCB

 

[Ignition Override]

Nothing new at last weekend's gun show in Germantown/Memphis TN. At 1300 no line to get in, and all aisles fairly clear.
No throngs checking AR-15s or similar rifles. Parking lot was normal, and included shared spaces for a flea market.

Crowds at the gun shop two miles away? Nope. While waiting on the background check for my second East German Makarov, I saw Nobody even looking at the normal dozen + AR and similar sporting rifles.
That gun rack was full. All other customers seemed to be checking handguns.

barnbwt: MSNBC is always on in many airport gift shops.
Their segment about 4:45 Central today displayed several bar graphs about gun violence. The top graph seemed to be the largest, but I couldn't see what the info source was. Anything to distract the citizens from thinking about our President's resistance to taking strong action against terrorism.