about to commit AK apostacy

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ccsniper

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I am about to commit the most horrendous sin against AK's, I have decided to buy an AR 15:what:!!!!!

Now, I have owned several types of AK's over the years and even a Romanian PSL, and I have to say, I HATE THE AK PLATFORM!!! The gun is good but I can't stand the ergos. Just my opinion, YMMV. But now I am in the market for an AR15 and have less than 800 for a beginner rifle.

I will be using it for plinking, maybe an occasional hunting trip, and most likely home defense. Suggestions? Delton, Olympic, and DPMS have grabbed my attention, especially Delton cause of the kits.
 
may want to look at doublestar. they are on buds gun shop for less than $700 majority of the time. i've heard of people building off of their lowers alot.
 
I should say, it must be a flat top and take 5.56. I want it accurate as well (under 2 MOA). At the moment I am really leaning towards the Delton kit.
 
If you aren't afraid of assembly, you can put together a high end AR for just a smidge more.

Spikes stripped lower $89 (aero and others can be found for this price)
LPK $60-$70
BCM M4 stock + Receiver Ext. Spring, buffer, ~$65
Lower total: ~ $220
BCM 16" mid length upper $435 (One of the best uppers out there) http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Upper-Receiver-Groups-with-Standard-Barrels-s/126.htm
Mid length handguards: $19.95
BCG (BCM-top quality) $139
rear sight- Magpul $55
Total: about $868.00 plus the dealer/FFL fee you pay anyway.

That would be a top quality build you could bet your life on for just a skosh more $ than those entry level options.

The difference is in the barrel steel and testing, the bolt, bolt carrier materials, assembly and testing standards and the quality control of components and assembly of the upper receiver.

I got most of the prices from Bravo Company (BCM) which doesn't have the best prices on a lot of things. Shop around for some items and you can do better, but multiple shipping costs also add up. I recently got an LMT BCG (also very high quality) for $102.
 
Take a look at the DPMS Oracle. It's a flat top, under $800, chambered for 5.56 and shoots well. The nice thing about it is that it's a flat top without a front site. I hate a flat top upper with a front sight post. Makes about as much sense as dehydrated water tablets.

However the gas block does have a rail to mount the front sight of your choice. I recommend flip downs so they dont cowitness with your optic of choice.
 
My AR was a Del-Ton lower with DPMS LPK and a 16" Del-ton middy upper. I was happy with it, paid $650 total and sold it recently for $865. FWIW they have a decent product. DPMS also has good stuff for the price.
 
Spend the money to get a good one, BCM is a great value.

I agree about the AK though, hate the ergonomics of it.
 
I 2nd the vote for a Spikes Tactical. I researched them before ( and since) recently buying one, and they seem to be widely acknowledged as among the upper tier of AR's, and right now, are very economical.
I got a complete upper from AIMsurplus for $479 delivered, and from Brownells,a complete Spikes lower for $249,and a Daniel Defense fixed A1 sight for $65.
This is by all accounts a very nice AR, and it came in just over $800. ARFCOM has a couple good threads about them running right now.
AIM seems to be out, but may be getting more ( they just sold out when I called and pre-ordered mine).
As for the AK's, I'm still a huge AK fan, and would probably grab an AK over anything else in an emergency. The biggest problem with AK ergonomics is the stock. I have a Hungarian SA85 with a ban-era thumbhole stock
( gorgeous steamed elm) that I absolutely love. It shoulders like a dream, and it's probably my #1 go-to gun.
I also have a converted Saiga with a synthetic one-piece stock from Choate that makes the rifle extremely ergonomic and comfortable to shoot well.
This is an excellent option for any of you guys wanting to fix the stock issues with AK's.
 
ccsniper said:
I am about to commit the most horrendous sin against AK's, I have decided to buy an AR 15:what:!!!!!

Now, I have owned several types of AK's over the years and even a Romanian PSL, and I have to say, I HATE THE AK PLATFORM!!! The gun is good but I can't stand the ergos. Just my opinion, YMMV. But now I am in the market for an AR15 and have less than 800 for a beginner rifle.

I will be using it for plinking, maybe an occasional hunting trip, and most likely home defense. Suggestions? Delton, Olympic, and DPMS have grabbed my attention, especially Delton cause of the kits.
Click to expand...

Delton is good as a home-defense and plinker model if you get a Chrome-lined HBAR gun, DPMS and Olympic, though, are pretty bad. Over the years both of them have earned a reputation of very poor quality control (and customer service).

Well since 800 is your limit, I recommend a Spike's Tactical M4-LE.

http://www.spikestactical.com/z/ind...ducts_id=387&zenid=a2fg2e6tp4ptl6pu0e5vc8l8h2

Call them and ask for flip-up sights instead of the Carry Handle. They may look cool to some, but it's WAY better to have good flip-up sights (MBUS or Troy) and a reasonably good optic (I use the Primary Arms M3 multi-reticle red dot) on a defensive carbine.
 
I got a complete upper from AIMsurplus for $479 delivered,
Click to expand...

That is the price of the Delton kit,

I also have a converted Saiga with a synthetic one-piece stock from Choate that makes the rifle extremely ergonomic and comfortable to shoot well.
Click to expand...

wasn't the buttstock, I actually like that. It was the safety, mag release that I couldn't stand.

I am pretty sold on the Delton kit, coming in around 600 total for something I can say I did myself sounds pretty good to me. And most people seem to like their Deltons
 
ccsniper said:
That is the price of the Delton kit,
Click to expand...

There's just no comparison between the quality of the Delton upper and the Spikes upper.

The barrel on the Spikes is MP tested
The bolt is shot-peened and MP tested
The bolt is an M16 bolt, built to withstand fully automatic fire
The Upper comes with an ST-T2 heavy buffer
The barrels on a Spikes are made with 4150 CMV steel
Spikes is about to start HP "proof-testing" their bolts and barrels.
The Spikes barrel has a 1/7 twist rate
and who could possibly forget, teh Spikes barrel is CHROME-LINED!

Let's compare that to the Del-ton kit

The barrel is not MP tested
The bolt is not MP tested
The bolt is not shot-peened
The bolt is an AR-15 bolt, not rated to withstand automatic fire
The kit does not have a heavy buffer
The barrel is made with 4140 CM steel
The barrel has a 1/9 twist rate
The barrel is not, of course, chrome lined

There is NO comparison between the Del-ton and spikes uppers.
 
To anyone buying a DelTon, Steer clear unless you can get an m16 bolt carrier and a Chrome-lined barrel.
 
The only reason the differences matter is the OP said "...and most likely home defense."

It may not seem like much on the surface, but the differences are major for a rifle you may bet your, and your family's, lives on. First; the barrel material. This itself is minor, but the company that uses the milspec steel will go onto doing other things that are important. Such as HP (high pressure) and MP (magnetic particle) testing. This means that they fire a high pressure proof load, then inspect it for microscopic cracks.

Then, same for the bolt. It is made from higher quality steel. Then shot peened for extra strength. Then, HP and MP tested for cracks. Of course with the higher quality companies the gas key is properly staked as well.

Does that mean the higher quality rifles will last longer than the $600 econo version? Probably...but maybe not. In any case, when the golblin is kicking in the door at 'O-Dark 30...I think those extra measures are worth the added insurance that I won't sheer a bolt lug on shot #2...esp. for maybe $200 difference max...but probably less in reality. That's just me though, YMMV.

AKs are a totally different story. Even a cheapo AK (say a Romanian) is still a piston rifle with loose tolerances. It will be reliable, just maybe not as refined and pretty (Heck, I bet my life on a beat up 'ol AK in Iraq as a contractor), AR's are a different story. Small things, corners cut, can matter a lot when it comes to reliable functioning.
 
I'm guilty too. I just picked up a S&W 15-22. I could swear I heard screams coming from my safe that first night. The 15-22's stock seemed loose he next day too.
 
Well, I have shot an AK and liked it because it's a reliable gun, but you shouldn't have ANY problem getting sub 2 MOA with an AR. Days of 2 MOA are in your past :)
 
The 15-22's stock seemed loose he next day too.
Click to expand...

I think you should put it in another safe, The AK's might not be so gentle next time. I mean how could you even think of putting a good ole apple pie loving american rifle in with a bunch of commie guns!!!
 
I have a number of both, and iI still prefer the AK's over my AR's for the most part. The only exception would be my one Armalite, which is set up as a ''precision" type rifle.

I suppose the ergonomics issue is a personal thing, and I think a lot of it is just lack of experience with them (AK's) to know. I've never found them to be a problem, and I find the AK's to shoulder and shoot more naturally for me, and all of them have had nicer triggers than most all but the match type AR's. 99.9% of any handling issues usually go away with familiarization and a little practice.

AR wise (and AK's too for that matter), from past experience, I'd stay away from home built or parts gun, unless you know exactly who built it, their level of expertise, and you have shot the gun enough to know what it is. Just because it "looks" like an AR doesnt mean its going to perform like a good one. Personally, I'd stick with one of the bigger named companies with a good history, and Colt and Armalite are my favorites.

My favorites are the mid length guns, with the double flat top and a full, A1 stock. Something like this....

Armalite M15A4(C), an Aimpoint M2 with GG&G cantilever mount, and BUIS.
ry%3D400.jpg
 
As an AK and AR owner I think you are being too hard on yourself! However, I can tell you that after lugging the AK around you WILL appreciate the weight difference.
 
Good IDEA

You are doing the right think leaving the world of "pray and spray" and entering the world of being able to hit what you shoot at with the first round. I really like my Bushmaster and Colts are very good.
 
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