yeah......looking into that, the Sgt. that lead the whole thing was one of those "im holier then thou" and "i know everything about firearms and you know s*it" types.......total jerk, the evidence tech actually told him to tone it down and "accedents happen to all of us" ......anywho the Sgt decided to formally charge me even though the evidence tech and 2 other officers said it would be foolish to charge me unless i was "playing" with the gun or drugs or alcohol were involved........some cops are just full of themselves.......wasnt it a DEA agent who just recently shot himself in the foot infront of 30 6th graders? wonder if he will be charged with reckless conduct..........hmm
Accidental Discharge Experience
- Thread starter ThrottleJockey
- Start date
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Shung
Member
yeah, the Infamous "only professional nuff to" ....
shootistpd27
Member
The definition of reckless is without reguard to life or property. Your weapon misfired. I hope that you get a conservative judge, if not you may lose your license. Gather all of your training certificates, weapons qualifications, and also get the reciept for your recent purchase of the weapon along with a written explanation of the possibility of malfunction if the weapon were tampered with from Taurus. Im sure they wont mind sending you this literature considering it still renders them free from liability. If you can you need to get with the gun shop you bought the weapon from and investigate who sold the weapon to them. Hopefully you can find out who worked on the gun and ask them to testify to that account. If you didnt know that the gun had been tampered with prior to your purchase then technically you were sold a defective weapon. Make sure you have all of this information with you at court. If you have a cop buddy, have him run your name on ncic so that you will have a printout in court to show the judge that you are an upstanding citizen who happened upon a defective weapon. Im not an attorney but I hope that you can get out of this. There is no difference between you being sold a defective firearm and being sold an S.U.V. having the wrong sized tires on it causing it to careen out of control into on coming traffic. Good luck. From now on please find the safest direction to rack a round in case it does go off. Im sure that you are probably going to leave your pipe empty or go to revolvers from now on. In that case I want to buy your automatics.
ZO6Vettever
Member
I believe that will be your only AD ever. I always carry with 1 chambered, I think "always" is the key to safety. I had an AD about 35 years ago with a 22 semi auto rifle. Bang bang etc then click I thought it was empty but it was a light strike. A buddy said empty? Let me have it. No, I didn't shoot him but I foolishly pointed it to the sky and pulled the trigger, bang. I learned a lot that instant. Don't beat yourself up too much, no harm no foul.
whitefeather
Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2006
- Messages
- 124
I know it's beating a dead horse to say that "all guns are loaded", but if you take that mindset to heart EVERY time you handle a gun, you won't have another AD.
In case you haven't taken the time to become familiar with the various features of your XD, there are two key items to be aware of:
1) LOADED CHAMBER INDICATOR (there's one in the pipe!)
2) PROTRUDING STRIKER (indicates that the gun is "cocked")
You don't even have to look at an XD to know it's condition, you just have to feel it.
Regardless, any safety features on ANY gun can be defeated by carelessness.
In case you haven't taken the time to become familiar with the various features of your XD, there are two key items to be aware of:
1) LOADED CHAMBER INDICATOR (there's one in the pipe!)
2) PROTRUDING STRIKER (indicates that the gun is "cocked")
You don't even have to look at an XD to know it's condition, you just have to feel it.
Regardless, any safety features on ANY gun can be defeated by carelessness.
DogOnIt
Member
Oh geez...this is so embarrassing, here I am closing-in on 60 and thought accidental discharges were something quite normal. :banghead: 
ThrottleJockey
member
"1) LOADED CHAMBER INDICATOR (there's one in the pipe!)"
Not on mine.
Not on mine.
earlthegoat2
Member
Isnt it called negligent discharge....
I have not personally experienced a negligent discharge, but I have experienced an accidental discharge--difference being the AD was from a malfunction which touched off a round when the trigger was released after firing the previous round. Even though I did nothing wrong, it was still not a good feeling. I have however been witness to a ND when a shooting buddy racked his slide before dropping the mag then pulling the trigger while the muzzle was pointed at the berm downrange. It shook him up quite a bit and he packed up for the day. No one was injured/killed since he had the firearm pointed in a safe direction. The saying goes that the two loudest noises when shooting are a bang when you expect a click, and a click when you expect a bang.
It sounds like the experience will make you more cautious, but instead of relying on the fact that you will NEVER keep one in the chamber, I believe the safer assumption is that the firearm is loaded until proven otherwise. Remember that the only reliable safety is you (if you follow all firearm safety rules) not anything mechanical. Man-made safeties fail, and all firearms are assumed loaded.
In regards to being able to chamber a round "in a second" when needed, this assumes that you have the use of two hands (rather than only one due to injury or the second hand being occupied in fending off a knife attack for instance) and that you are cool enough under stress to perform correctly. I like to keep my odds as high as possible so I carry with one in the chamber.
It sounds like the experience will make you more cautious, but instead of relying on the fact that you will NEVER keep one in the chamber, I believe the safer assumption is that the firearm is loaded until proven otherwise. Remember that the only reliable safety is you (if you follow all firearm safety rules) not anything mechanical. Man-made safeties fail, and all firearms are assumed loaded.
In regards to being able to chamber a round "in a second" when needed, this assumes that you have the use of two hands (rather than only one due to injury or the second hand being occupied in fending off a knife attack for instance) and that you are cool enough under stress to perform correctly. I like to keep my odds as high as possible so I carry with one in the chamber.
PRE 64 JOE
Member
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2007
- Messages
- 86
I SHOT MY TIGER: Thought my gold cup was clear, removed magazine and blew a chunk of carpet and cement at my 3 foot porcelain tiger nocking one of his front fangs or teeth out but was repairable, i'm just happy he wasn't real but he did look upset.
winston smith
Member
I know the gun is trying to kill me, its no accident.
Hammers hit my fingers. Knives cut me. Fire burns me. I just help it to happen.
The universe is hostile. Or maybe I'm just a klutz. In my life, I have done a lot of really dumb things. Like buying stock. Or trusting my Boss. I have owned all of the worst cars ever made (outside of France).
Guns are the most dangerious things I have.
I keep pointing them in a safe direction, I keep my finger away from the trigger.
I bought only pistols with firing pin blocks. I treat the holster as an intergral safety device.
My guns want to shoot something, and they will. I am still afraid of them! So I keep them ready, willing, and able to do so.
And I remember that everytime I go near them. I don't play with them. Mr. Gun is not my friend, it is my weapon. I carry them as a final resort to stop the bad guy.
The rest of the time I keep them in a safe with thick steel walls they can't shoot through.
Hopefully, they will only shoot the bad guys. That, I will help them with.
Hammers hit my fingers. Knives cut me. Fire burns me. I just help it to happen.
The universe is hostile. Or maybe I'm just a klutz. In my life, I have done a lot of really dumb things. Like buying stock. Or trusting my Boss. I have owned all of the worst cars ever made (outside of France).
Guns are the most dangerious things I have.
I keep pointing them in a safe direction, I keep my finger away from the trigger.
I bought only pistols with firing pin blocks. I treat the holster as an intergral safety device.
My guns want to shoot something, and they will. I am still afraid of them! So I keep them ready, willing, and able to do so.
And I remember that everytime I go near them. I don't play with them. Mr. Gun is not my friend, it is my weapon. I carry them as a final resort to stop the bad guy.
The rest of the time I keep them in a safe with thick steel walls they can't shoot through.
Hopefully, they will only shoot the bad guys. That, I will help them with.
whitefeather
Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2006
- Messages
- 124
No Loaded Chamber Indicator On Your XD?
Throttlejockey:
Are you sure there's no Loaded Chamber Indicator on your XD? Every one I've owned or seen has one. It is listed as a feature on Springfield's website and every gun mag review I've read mentions it.
I had an XD .45 and it had one. My sub compact XD9 has one.
I've heard of them "sticking"; maybe that's what's happened to yours, but I'll bet it's there unless you have some kind of aftermarket barrel.
Throttlejockey:
Are you sure there's no Loaded Chamber Indicator on your XD? Every one I've owned or seen has one. It is listed as a feature on Springfield's website and every gun mag review I've read mentions it.
I had an XD .45 and it had one. My sub compact XD9 has one.
I've heard of them "sticking"; maybe that's what's happened to yours, but I'll bet it's there unless you have some kind of aftermarket barrel.
ThrottleJockey
member
oh, ok there it is. Not in the same spot, it's there, it's just not like any of my other guns.
My experience
I know this thread is old, but this topic never becomes unimportant..... my ND was with a new gun as well.... except I bought 4 guns this day, none of them were second nature with me... Prior to this day I had been routinely dry firing my GP100 revolver as I was trying to help the trigger improve.... Revolvers are easy, you can see if there is ammo in the gun, you can shake it and hear the rounds... no brainer.... But the night that I bought the pistols a buddy of mine came by that was not familiar with semi-auto pistols.... he had the magazine in his hand and upon my instruction slipped a .40 hollowpoint in the magazine of my Taurus PT100
... we then picked up the next gun, and the next, until show and tell was over.... I went to bed that night reading the manuals and stacked the gun cases on the night table.... the next morning I woke up and was going through the pistols checking the double action trigger, then the single action.... then I came upon the Taurus and not even having had my coffee thinking it had never ever been loaded, I picked it up racked it pointed it at a picture across the room, pulled the trigger, expected click, got BOOOOOOM!
Well that shakes you up.... I can tell you... so I live on the 5th floor.. I had visions that the bullet had gone through 2 apartments and out the front window smashing it..... after running downstairs and looking up..(with my heart pounding and my ears ringing
).. I didn't see any windows out.. then I came back to my space... I took down the picture I had shot that was covering the breaker box.... there was a big ole .40 caliber hole in the metal on the side of the box.... I took off the metal and looked in the bottom of the breaker box and there was the round... it had deflected off the side off the metal box, hit the back and fell harmlessly to the bottom..... zero damage except a hole in the metal... the electricity was missed... Today I'm glad it happened..... So what do I do differently? First I don't dryfire.... I go to the range... and I keep ALL OF MY GUNS loaded racked and safety on... and in my safe, except my bedside gun it stays in a holster beside my bed.... (no kids) racked and safety on.... So I treat them with the utmost respect, because they are loaded and ready to go..... no question...... haven't had an accident since.....
I know this thread is old, but this topic never becomes unimportant..... my ND was with a new gun as well.... except I bought 4 guns this day
, none of them were second nature with me... Prior to this day I had been routinely dry firing my GP100 revolver as I was trying to help the trigger improve.... Revolvers are easy, you can see if there is ammo in the gun, you can shake it and hear the rounds... no brainer.... But the night that I bought the pistols a buddy of mine came by that was not familiar with semi-auto pistols.... he had the magazine in his hand and upon my instruction slipped a .40 hollowpoint in the magazine of my Taurus PT100... we then picked up the next gun, and the next, until show and tell was over.... I went to bed that night reading the manuals and stacked the gun cases on the night table.... the next morning I woke up and was going through the pistols checking the double action trigger, then the single action.... then I came upon the Taurus and not even having had my coffee thinking it had never ever been loaded, I picked it up racked it pointed it at a picture across the room, pulled the trigger, expected click, got BOOOOOOM! Well that shakes you up.... I can tell you... so I live on the 5th floor.. I had visions that the bullet had gone through 2 apartments and out the front window smashing it..... after running downstairs and looking up..(with my heart pounding and my ears ringing).. I didn't see any windows out.. then I came back to my space... I took down the picture I had shot that was covering the breaker box.... there was a big ole .40 caliber hole in the metal on the side of the box.... I took off the metal and looked in the bottom of the breaker box and there was the round... it had deflected off the side off the metal box, hit the back and fell harmlessly to the bottom..... zero damage except a hole in the metal... the electricity was missed... Today I'm glad it happened..... So what do I do differently? First I don't dryfire.... I go to the range... and I keep ALL OF MY GUNS loaded racked and safety on... and in my safe, except my bedside gun it stays in a holster beside my bed.... (no kids) racked and safety on.... So I treat them with the utmost respect, because they are loaded and ready to go..... no question...... haven't had an accident since.....dmazur
Member
The "Four Rules" pretty much cover gun operation, and Rule 1 is that all guns are loaded. (Even if you know they are unloaded, and that's the hard part to follow in practice.)
What isn't discussed very often is how to deal with guns for routine things like cleaning and inspections. (And yes, the inevitable "showing guns to friends".) How do the Four Rules cover this? Sometimes not very well.
I believe there should be more mention of "gun store protocol", which is the routine opening of the action to verify the gun's status, every time it is picked up. If you hand it to someone else, it is handed across with action open. (For DA revolvers, with cylinder open; for bolt-actions, with bolt open, etc.) Insist on the same when it is handed back.
When you are verifying and opening the action, follow Rule 2. Now that you have proven, for this single instance, that the gun is in fact unloaded, Rule 1 doesn't apply. Until you set it down. Then you've reset the conditions and you have to verify if you pick it up again. (This is where a lot of purists insist that Rule 1 can never be broken...)
This is what is done in the more professional gun stores that I've visited. The salesmen routinely point the muzzle at themselves when they hand it across the counter, action locked back. If you release the slide during your inspection, it is considered impolite to aim at anything except the wall or perhaps the ceiling lights. (Rule 2 again) If you receive permission to dry fire, you can then put your finger on the trigger and test trigger pull (Rule 3).
While a lot of potential purchasers simply hand the gun back, I mirror the protocol and hand it back with the action open. (Yep, muzzle pointed at myself.)
In the end, all that matters is that we never assume guns are safe, and never handle them without diligence. The exact rules can be argued endlessly. In fact, some manufacturer's manuals list 20 or more rules for safe gun handling, no doubt carefully written by their attorneys. Do they really think anyone can remember 20 rules?
I'm glad you have a routine that works for you.
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