For you guys that might have put a reflex red dot on after shooting your with irons, did you see much improvement in your groups? I have A kimber 1911 10MM with target sights at 25yds I'm getting 3.5" avg group freehand, my eyes aren't great anymore just wondering if I put a fastfire II on it if I would see improvement. I do intend to hunt some with it.
Accuracy? Target irons vs Reflex Red dot
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While the red dot will certainly be easier to see than ironsights, people don't usually get them for the sake of groupings. What red dots really help with is target aquisition - how fast can you put the sight on target.
That's not to say they're innacurate, though, just the reason people generally get them isn't accuracy.
That's not to say they're innacurate, though, just the reason people generally get them isn't accuracy.
silicosys4
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Hard to go for moa groups when your dot is 2-3 inches across at 50 yards.
berettaprofessor
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MOA? At 50 yards with a handgun? Are you suggesting you can do it with iron sights? Cmon, at least provide a rebuttal that has some grounding in reality. Handgun shooters that come anywhere near one or even two inch groups (that's around 4-8 MOA) at 25 yards are considered great or extraordinary by most. Heck most handguns in a Ransom rest can't do it. One inch groups at 50 yards with a handgun, scoped or not, would be.....pretty darned extraoridinary. The Olympics Men's 50 meter pistol competition has a center ring of 1.97 inches (approx 2 MOA) in diameter. This year, the Gold Medalist scored only 50% of his 10 final shots in that 2 inch ring.
To answer the OP's question, yes, a Red-dot with an MOA reticle will help tighten your groups.
Edited note: actually someone later points out, correctly, that a 1.97 inch ring is 3.44 MOA.
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My Les Baer will put 10 shots in 1.5" at 50 yards from a rest. Most Baer's will shoot at least 3" for 10 shots at 50 yards from a machine rest. And I have seen people do the same thing offhand (clean target in a bullseye match).
Most bullseye shooters use either a 2MOA or 4MOA reticle. It doesn't really matter that much which because you are trying to center the dot in the black on the target, NOT aim at your last bullet hole. Heck, I can't even see my bullet holes at 50 yards without the spotting scope.
@Skribs: Yeah I don't have a dot for EVERY gun I own, the 5906 is for HD so it doesn't get a dot.
Most bullseye shooters use either a 2MOA or 4MOA reticle. It doesn't really matter that much which because you are trying to center the dot in the black on the target, NOT aim at your last bullet hole. Heck, I can't even see my bullet holes at 50 yards without the spotting scope.
@Skribs: Yeah I don't have a dot for EVERY gun I own, the 5906 is for HD so it doesn't get a dot.
Saw a holo sight on a buckmark. Puts a nice red circle on the screen. Very accurate and you don't have to look for the dot on the target! Was a nice LOW mount also, not that big scope looking thingy. Don't know the brand but looking for one myself.
wally
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Once you get to where you can't see the front sight clearly, the red dots are a godsend!
If you are thinking "if I can't focus on the front sight, how do I focus on the dot?" the trick is you focus on the target and look through the dot to aim.
It also helps that the apparent distance of the dot is well beyond where the front sight would be.
Everyone that tries my Burris Fast Fire on my 1911 says.. "that's cheatn" I say. "I know" 
Same probelm, old eyes, can see the target just fine, the front sight is blurry. YES, the dot get's kinda big out there a ways.. if you are not shooting fast action, get the smallest MOA dot you can. If you put a deer's heart on a target at 50 yards, chances are the dot will cover all of it.. Center around the whole thing and squeeze That's what you want to hit right?
Same probelm, old eyes, can see the target just fine, the front sight is blurry. YES, the dot get's kinda big out there a ways.. if you are not shooting fast action, get the smallest MOA dot you can. If you put a deer's heart on a target at 50 yards, chances are the dot will cover all of it.. Center around the whole thing and squeeze
That's what you want to hit right?browningguy
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Back in the 70's I shot bullseye with regular sights, and I wouldn't even consider it now. Red dots are a godsend for us old farts.
ColtPythonElite
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I have two identical pistols. I shoot the irons better than the reflex.
barnbwt
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How small of iron sights are ya'll using
?Dots are definitely more accurate for folks with a shorter depth of field of vision. I'd love to get a little RMR or something for my TRR8 (just so I have something to put on the rails when they're attached
), but I can't convince myself to shell out 450$+ for such a tiny little doodad. What exactly makes them so expensive anyway? Aren't they just an LED and a mirror?Maybe he means one of those bipoded S&W revolver "handguns" with the 12" barrel
TCB
berettaprofessor
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Or a Ruger Charger? Yeah, that would help your groups a little.
45_auto
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berettaprofessor said:
1.97" at 50 meters is 3.44 MOA.
berettaprofessor
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You're correct 45 auto...I brainfarted that the pistol competition was at 50 meters instead of 100 meters.
But you've made my point stronger than ever; an Olympic gold medalist only put 50% of his shots this year into a 3.44 MOA area....a far cry from the claim that somebody can shoot MOA at 50 yards with a pistol...which was not, I would point out, actually claimed, it was just stated that a red dot would interfere with aiming that well.
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