Accused gator poacher says he was protecting daughter

[Harry Tuttle]

Accused gator poacher says he was protecting daughter
an Associated Press report 05/23/05

http://www.abcactionnews.com/stories/2005/05/050523gator.shtml

PENSACOLA - An Escambia High School dean charged with alligator poaching said he shot into the water to protect his daughter.

Michael Vann, 45, has been ordered to appear in court June 10 to face a felony charge. But he said a 4- to 5-foot gator charged his 9-year-old daughter while she was fishing about 400 feet from home, and it sank after he fired.

"It was something primal in a father's mind because it was obviously trying to attack my daughter, so I shot it," Vann said after his arrest Friday. "I didn't feel comfortable about it. I'm not in the NRA or anything."

He said the alligator has been around his unfenced back yard near Bayou Marcus for nearly two weeks. He said he repeatedly tried to call the state wildlife commission for help in recent days but couldn't get through.

Escambia School Superintendent Jim Paul said it is unlikely Vann will be asked to take a leave of absence.

"It doesn't seem like he's putting kids in danger. In fact, it seems like quite the opposite. We'll want him to stick closer to the schools," said Paul.

Alligators are active in spring because of the start of mating season and increased feeding activity after a dormant winter.

 

[30 cal slob]

"I'm not an idiot for shooting into the water and risking a skipping bullet or anything."

 

[TarpleyG]

I doubt "skipping a bullet" is a real problem.

What I would like to know is why in the hell are alligators protected? They are becoming a real nuisance around here. As usual though, the .gov does what it damn well pleases and now this poor schmuck is up on a felony charge. I'd have put a 1 oz. slug in the damn thing's head and pushed it off in the water and not said a thing about it.

Greg

 

[Standing Wolf]

I didn't feel comfortable about it. I'm not in the NRA or anything.

That makes it okay, then.

 

[joab]

What I would like to know is why in the hell are alligators protected? T

Because they resemble the American Crocodile which really is endangered

I didn't feel comfortable about it. I'm not in the NRA or anything

= Don't hate me, I'm not one of those gun nuts

"I'm not an idiot for shooting into the water and risking a skipping bullet or anything.

Would you feel like less of an idiot if you let your daughter become gator scat because you were more worried that your bullet might maybe could possibly skip into something

 

[Azrael256]

Anybody else have a flashback to Jimbo screaming "It's comin' right for us!"

So the article didn't say anything about an eyewitness seeing him actually poach it. I'm guessing it's the aligator's word or his? Maybe he has a long history of reptilicidal behavior? Somebody help me out here. I'm not seeing anything that indicates a crime.

 

[joab]

I'm not seeing anything that indicates a crime.

Alligators are a protected species, you can be charged if you hurt ones feelings without a permit.

They seem to come down hard on suspected offenders as a warning to the rest of us to SSS

 

[ceetee]

Actually, guys, alligators are NOT a protected species. There's a season for 'em, and a bag limit of two per person.

Florida Fish and Wildlife website


Once upon a time, alligators were hunted without limit for their hides. Gators became almost extinct, which led to the total ban on killing them. They have since rebounded to the point that:

In 2004, the Commission received 18,072 nuisance alligator complaints. Nuisance alligator trappers were issued 15,485 permits and tags and removed 7,352 nuisance alligators.

Florida wildlife commission website


The strict laws on hunting gators without a license are still on the books. Probably the only thing keeping them from being hunted to near extinction again.

 

[joab]

1985
alligators Are Reclassified As "threatened Due To Similarity Of Appearance."The Species Is No Longer Threatened, But Because Of Products Made From Endangered Crocodilians, The Alligator Remains On The List.

The alligators are not an endangered species but they are legally protected.They are classified as a threatened species because of their similarity in appearance to the American Crocodile, an endangered species.

Your links tell how to get the aforementioned feelings hurting permits

 

[ceetee]

Joab:

Huh?

 

[joab]

Gators are protected as a threatened species because they look like a species that really is endangered.

To participate in the hunts you must have a relatively uncommon permit or be a licensed trapper

The links you provide are for applications for those permits, the links I provided explain why they are indeed a protected species

 

[Dave P]

"I'd have put a 1 oz. slug in the damn thing's head and pushed it off in the water and not said a thing about it." --- Save the tail first -- mm mm Good!



I am surprised to hear this is a felony - for just shooting at the damn thing!? I have a dog and kids that love the woods and water, and I won't hesitate to shoot first.

Dave

 

[Highland Ranger]

What I would like to know is why in the hell are alligators protected?

For the same reason you get better care from a Vet than a Pediatrician.

For the same reason we didn't have a bear season in NJ last year.

For the same reason some nut at the NJ state fair was educating us about how "cute" and "cuddly" the black bear is . . . .

The environmentalist wacko left values animal life over human life.

I don't want to see anything extinct but when bears are crashing in your family room door . . . . well they need to go.

Ditto for alligators.

I'm the top of the food chain and I am comfortable with that position.

Suggest the guilty left take a stroll in the Northern woods with a steak tied around their neck and honey smeared across their chest or just carry an open box of dougnuts.

Then they'll see first hand how cute and cuddly black bears are . . . .

 

[grampster]

My question is how did he just happen to have a firearm handy so that he could shoot the critter that "charged" his daughter. (After all, he's not a member of the NRA. )

I think the truth of the matter, just my opinion, is that the 'gator was hanging around, he couldn't contact wildlife officials, got frustrated with the bureaucracy that was ignoring him, and took matters into his own hands.

So, how did the "authorities" find out he shot the 'gator?

 

[Wayne D]

"I didn't feel comfortable about it. I'm not in the NRA or anything."

:banghead:

 

[pax]

Oh, Fud.

pax

 

[ceetee]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, alligators are no more protected than any other game animal that requires a license, and a season. Maybe I'm using a more wide open definition of the word "protected" than what's actually legal...

I do know that if you call the State Wildlife folks, they will send out a trapper. Eventually. And I've heard directly from the Fish and Game officers that if you shoot a gator, you'd better be able to show tooth marks...

If that's "protected", then so be it.







As always, YMMV.

 

[VARifleman]

Why the hell are ya'll under the impression that the alligator looks like a crocadille? :banghead: It's not hard to tell the difference. Looks like some stupid civil servents are trying to protect *us* from *our* stupidity. They need to look at themselves and go back to biology if they can't tell the difference.

Alligator:


Crocadile:

 

[joab]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, alligators are no more protected than any other game animal that requires a license, and a season. Maybe I'm using a more wide open definition of the word "protected" than what's actually legal...

Actually they are unless you are talking about other game animals , such as fox squirrels and buffalo that are on the list of federally protected species

 

[Fairlane63]

Here's a follow-up. Some of the comments in this story... sheesh-- words fail me...


http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/news/html/0E593747-5593-4575-84ED-0086D8E8A21A.shtml

Officers dispute gator account
School dean says he called hot line before shooting animal
May 24, 2005
Sean [email protected]

Florida fish and wildlife officers disputed Monday an Escambia High School dean's claim that they didn't respond to his calls regarding an alligator that he said was threatening his family.

Capt. Brad Williams, supervisor of the Pensacola office of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, also said Michael Stewart Vann first claimed he'd shot a snake and only a day later admitted he'd shot an alligator.

Meanwhile, one of Vann's neighbors is complaining that Vann, who claimed to be protecting his family by shooting an aggressive alligator, actually could have endangered people when he fired the high-powered rifle.

The neighbor, Dr. Bob Austin, took photographs of the gator from his boat shortly before the shooting.

"It showed no sign of aggression," he said. "What concerns me is that every single house in his range of fire has small children living in their homes. What would happen if one of those bullets went astray?"

Vann, 45, of the 9200 block of Lillian Highway, faces a third-degree felony charge of alligator poaching after his arrest Friday.

Vann said he shot the 4- to 5-foot alligator because it was charging his 9-year-old daughter, Kaitlin, who was fishing on Bayou Marcus, behind their unfenced yard on May 9.

"I've never been arrested. I've never done anything like this," Vann said Monday.

Vann said he repeatedly called the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission's nuisance alligator hot line for about two weeks before the shooting but could not get through.

"When I finally got a human being, they said it's 4-foot or 5-foot, and we're not coming out," he said.

But Williams said dispatchers always answer the number Vann called and forward alligator calls to the nuisance program. Williams said phone records show no calls from Vann until after the gator was dead.

It is illegal to kill alligators without a permit in Florida. If an alligator is at least 4-feet long and a threat to people, pets or property, the commission issues a permit to a licensed trapper, Williams said.

Fish and wildlife officers were called about 11:40 a.m. May 12 when a neighbor found a dead alligator floating in the bayou, said Lt. Buddy Gomez, supervisor with the Pensacola office.

When officers questioned Vann that day, he told them he was using a 16-gauge shotgun to shoot at a 4- to 5-foot water moccasin.

"He said his wife was getting on him pretty bad to kill it," Gomez said. "He said he wouldn't shoot an alligator because he knew it was a felony. He was sure it was a moccasin when it rolled over in the water. He said he saw its white belly."

The next day, May 13, fish and wildlife officers pulled two bullets from a high-powered, 30.30 lever-action hunting rifle from the dead gator.

"It wasn't until we told him we recovered the bullets that he admitted shooting it," Gomez said. "He said nothing about fearing for his daughter's safety."

Vann also told officers on May 13 that he had been worried about losing his job if he told them he shot a gator, Gomez said. He told them that a friend kept the rifle for him so officers wouldn't find it, Gomez said.

Vann said that he was frightened when the officers approached him.

"It's a protected species. I know that. But it had already charged my daughter," Vann said. "I shot the alligator. But I was thinking of all the repercussions, and I said I shot a snake."

Escambia County School District is monitoring the case but is not taking any action at this point, district spokesman Ronnie Arnold said.

In most cases, when an employee is arrested on a felony charge, the standard practice is to place the person on leave with pay until the case is resolved.

Vann is continuing to work at Escambia High, because school officials believe he was trying to protect his family, Arnold said.

Vann's initial story to officers was "unfortunate," Arnold said. But "given what we know, there is nothing leading us to believe he executed poor judgment. It's not like he shot this alligator for a trophy."

©The Pensacola News Journal
May 24, 2005

 

[VARifleman]

high-powered, 30.30 lever-action

They call that high powered?

 

[unclestu]

I say drop the charges, buy him a fresh box of ammo, & stop the nonsense. The man was protecting his child. Personally, I get tired of reading about people who worry more about some ****** snake, gator or croc than about a child's life. Reminds me of the folks on the California beach with their "Save the Sharks" signs!

Do I understand this self righteous hand-wringin' correctly? Some of you have no problem with keeping a gun for defensive purposes, but when a guy kills an animal that might very well kill his child you get all upset? Let's not forget other children in the area that he protected, too. Prosecute him for this? How two-faced can you get?

If I had children & lived in Florida, I'd probably be the gator-shootinest so & so anybody ever saw. The very idea that it should be illegal to shoot a poisonous snake where your children play! When I was a child, several times Mama killed a snake right by the front door- she chopped 'em up with a hoe. She's about as non-outdoors a person as you can imagine, but she sure killed those snakes! At least one water moccasin that I can remember & several copperheads. Hey, maybe the staute of limitations hasn't run out on that yet, come to Texas & prosecute my Mom for protecting her kids.

And as far as any laws protecting the gators & snakes in question, just remember what Mr. Bumble said. H***, that's like letting your child drown because there's a "No Swimming" sign on the pond he's drowning in!

 

[whm1974]

I think that species that are endangered should allowed to become exticed. If the greens want to save them then they should spend thier own money.

-Bill

 

[joab]

I agree. Why live in any sense of harmony with nature when you can beat it into submission.

Nature is highly overrated we should just pave it all over and build enviromantall science museums.

 

[VARifleman]

I hope you two are being sarcastic...