Action work on Walkers or Dragoons

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I've had my Dragoon a few years and now the new Walker. I'm wondering if there's any common modifications or adjustments you might do to improve the actions.
I polished the internals, honed the forcing cone ( has rough edge from factory ), polished the bolt and I'll be filing the loading lever latch a little.
The Walker shoot very high, so I wonder what to do about that. Also, is it recommended to lighten up the mainspring in a Walker? It's a workout pulling that hammer back, but I know if it were too light, it might cause more cap fragment issues and allow more blowback/fouling from the nipples.
I don't expect the Walker to feel like my well tuned SAA, but I'd like to hear about any common modifications you do.
Also, without starting a whole thread; Do conicals improve accuracy in the Walker?
 
Shooting high - the Colt single actions were originally designed to shoot high at 25 yards - they were intended as 75 to 100 yard weapons to fit into cavalry tactics: rifles at long range, pistols at shorter range and sabres at close range. Attack with the rifles, before the adversary was within their range, use the pistols when closer and the rifles were empty, then finish with the sabres when the pistols were empty and you were hand-to-hand. Six to eight inches high at 25 yards was the spec. Fortunately or unfortunately, the replicas have retained that feature.

Fixing is is a problem. You need to raise the front sight or lower the rear sight, neither of which the gun is equipped to do. Some folks file the notch in the hammer, some replace the front sight. And some simply adjust their point of aim.

Likewise weakening the mainspring. There's no quick fix for that either, and the few I'm aware of that have tried it have indeed had misfire problems. Spring life has also suffered.

You've pretty much done as much as I have with mine. The only other custom work with these guns tends to be cosmetic in nature - antiquing by removing the blueing, changing grips, etd.

Conicals - I've not tried conicals in my revolvers. My reading of the forums indicates that they don't do well in terms of accuracy. The issue seems to be seating them without getting them crooked in the chamber. I'm sure others can fill you in.
 
During the 1800's when Colt was making the original revolvers, great attention was paid to making sure that when the hammer was at full-cock the back of it was up against the backstrap. The backstrap acted as a stop to prevent the hand, cylinder ratchet tooth and cylinder notches from taking too much shock.

Today this important point is often overlooked, and the hammer at full-cock is forward of the backstrap. Since the sight groove is in the hammer nose, and the hammer rotates in an arc, the effect is to raise the sight causing the revolver to shoot high. In addition, as was pointed out, they were sighted to shoot to point of aim at about 70 yards.

The best solution is to have a gunsmith mill a dovetail in the front of the barrel, and mount a much higher front sight. Or the alternative is to do what the old-timers did - point the sights to one place, and hit in another.

The higher front sight is effective, but tends to look wrong. It boils down to doing whatever you prefer.

On either gun, if you thin the mainspring, do it on the sides or bottom - not on the top, and polish out any file marks that are left. Otherwise the spring will likely crack. This is easy too do on the Dragoon, but less so on the Walker. Everyone should note that Colt quickly got rid of the "U" shaped mainspring, and he did so for good reason.

While the Walker reproductions are becoming very popular, folks should remember that they represent the earliest revolver technology. Important improvements soon followed.
 
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Old Fuff you hit the nail on the head
While the Walker reproductions are becoming very popular, folks should remember that they represent the earliest revolver technology. Important improvements soon followed.
Click to expand...
But still the feel sound and look of the massive rovolver is what many people are buying. I have seen many Walkers bought because of threads like the 2 big Walker threads on this sight. Gotta love em, the one I have has always shot high am for the belt buckle to hit em in the chest.
 
I have no objection to folks buying Walker reproductions, except that:

They are responsible for global warming or cooling - I'll have to ask Al as soon as he gets done inventing the Internet. :eek:

A terrorist might use one to shoot down airplanes or the space shuttle. :eek:

They are an awful waste of material – melt one down and you have enough to make two Navies and have enough left over for a Pocket Model. :eek:

But they are the ultimate paperweight or doorstop. :eek:

The Old Fuff now runs for cover… :evil: :D :D :D

But anyway, many buyers don’t understand that they’re differences between the inside parts in the Walker (or 1st Model Dragoon) and later Colts. One important difference is that you need a mainspring vise to take one apart. I wish that the makers would decide to be a bit less authentic, and use a leaf mainspring. ;)
 
Mainspring vice for Walker? Not needed.

20070601_Walker_gunsmithing.jpg

Not sure what the name of this tool is in English... adjustable clamp vice? Anyway, I recon everybody has one like this at home and it works like a charm.
Adjust it so that the mainspring is depressed just enough to release it's tension on the hammer when you click the tool shut. Excessive tension is useless and may damage or break the mainspring. Be sure to use a bit of paper or cloth between the tool and the brass of the trigger guard part to prevent scratching the polished brass.

Hildo
 
I agree Hildo....
They're called 'Vice Grips', and I carry a couple of pair's in my packs for the very reason you are showing in your post although the ones I carry are a little smaller than the one's you're holding....
 
I'm thinking of designating a set of vise grips just for this purpose and dipping the jaws in "plasti-dip" rubberized coating. It'd make a good and safe tool just for this purpose.
 
Shawnee,

What are the important mechanical/internal differences between the Walker and the 3rd Dragoon ?
Click to expand...

The changes were introduced over a period of time starting with what we know as the Fluck Dragoon and ending with the 3rd Model. I am uncertain of the correct Colt nomenclature but do know Colt never referred to model variations on these.

The mainspring was changed from U shaped to a leaf spring.

The frame was shortened.

The metallurgy was changed in the cylinder and the cylinder was shortened to stop the problem of Walker cylinder bursting while firing.

The locking bolt was changed from oval to the more common half moon shape.

The barrel was shortened to 7 1/2".

The grip shape was modified to the current shape found on all subsequent Colt single action revolvers.

Some of the dragoons were fitted with a rear sight on the barrel boss.

That is all I can recall without dragging out the guns.
 
That is all I can recall without dragging out the guns.
Click to expand...

You did pretty good, but I'll add that they changed the bullet rammer design from that used on the earlier Pattersons and Walkers, and went to a more positive latch on the end, rather then a spring/hook at the back.
 
Old Fluff,

You did pretty good, but I'll add that they changed the bullet rammer design from that used on the earlier Pattersons and Walkers, and went to a more positive latch on the end, rather then a spring/hook at the back.
Click to expand...

Totally forgot why I bought my Dragoon in the first place! Colt's solution to the infamous falling lever.

Thanks for watching my back, us old farts got to stick together.
 
The falling lever was not a mistake, as many people think, because it gives the shooter a way to support the revolver with their left hand - sort of a palm rest if you will.

Of course we do not, under any circumstances, discuss this on a public forum because it may upset the Brady's and others in the gun control movement. They seem to have excessive worries about "forward or vertical handles" on various evil firearms, and what could be more evil in their eyes then a fearsome Walker???? :what: :evil:
 
Old Fluff,

The falling lever was not a mistake, as many people think, because it gives the shooter a way to support the revolver
Click to expand...

This would be pre Civil War gun control? How would Brady find fault with that?:rolleyes:

I never heard the reason for the falling lever, not sure it would work for me.
 
Not long ago I made a post abt the Antiques Roadshow, while in Houston, was showing some original 1st, 2nd and 3rd model's. While showing them the fellow explained that a problem with the lever dropping while shooting in defense was a big problem because in the heat of a shootout the levers ram would fall into a cylinder preventing the shooter to get off another quick round until he could move the lever back.

For target shooting this wouldnt be a problem but in the situation of the above mentioned, it sounds like this would be a problem I would not want to have while lead was whizzing by.
 
Actually, the frames were not shortened on the Dragoons... you'll find that they are exactly the same as the Walker, with the exception of the oval cut-out in the Walker frame for the grip. Swap out the cylinder pin, and the Dragoon 1st model barrel and cylinder fit perfectly onto the Walker frame; I know... I did it once to create a "Whitneyville Dragoon". 2nd and 3rd model cylinders will not fit due to the square rather than oval cylinder stop notches on these models, but the frames are still identical.
 
Thanks for the correction.

I believed the frame was shortened because the cylinder of the Dragoon held less powder and was therefore shorter. Apparently not.

I like the idea of the Whitneyville Dragoon, that is what I call the Fluck Dragoon.

Great, another project!
 
It's interesting... :scrutiny:

I think Colt did that for several reasons. First he had tooled up to make the frame, and what few changes might be necessary if any, would be minor.

Second, it left more room for the ball sitting on top of the cylinder while loading...

And third, it left more room for fouling to blow away, rather then cake up on the face of the cylinder and back of the barrel.

In short, a very neat piece of engineering and design, that he followed in all subsequent cap & ball models. :cool:
 
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