Adjust Caliber for Threats in Heavy/Layered Clothing?

[gym]

As usual we are over answering this persons question. The answer was, no, he need not worry about adequate penetration with the 9mm. When people begin to be immune to the 9mm round because of their clothing choices, it's time to start carrying an RPG. Or call in air support, lol
If he had asked about a 25 or perhaps a 32, "not really", maybe we should have 50 answers, but a 9mm, really.

 

[481]

HST has a reputation for being recovered from OIS looking like it fell off a promotional poster. Boring, uniform, aggressive expansion. No need to change.

That's one kinda 'boring' I could get used to. Gold Dots aren't too bad in that regard either.

 

[RBid]

That's one kinda 'boring' I could get used to. Gold Dots aren't too bad in that regard either.

Agreed. Not surprising, since GDs and HST are all under the ATK umbrella. The bullets are very, very similar, with HST having deeper petal slits. Not surprisingly, HST tend to expand very slightly more, while GDs penetrate very slightly more... generally speaking, of course.

 

[Warp]

Agreed. Not surprising, since GDs and HST are all under the ATK umbrella. The bullets are very, very similar, with HST having deeper petal slits. Not surprisingly, HST tend to expand very slightly more, while GDs penetrate very slightly more... generally speaking, of course.

And of course the Gold Dots are bonded while HST is not. Bonded bullets tend to hold together better, both for performance through intermediate barriers and retained weight, but also for less expansion and more penetration. Relatively speaking.

I have, have carried, and will carry both. For my semi autos they are the only two rounds that I can say that for at this time (Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST)

 

[chuckpro]

It shouldn't matter what you think a BG will be wearing or their mental state. Carry as large of a hammer as you can. You may be able you to conceal a larger firearm in winter.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

FWIW: Most gellatin tests involving "heavy" clothing consist of approximately four layers of denim.

See "Why Four Layers of Denim Cloth" - http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/2006/04/02/0604-02a.htm

There's no good reason to change from a modern well-designed JHP to FMJ for use against heavy clothing. Either bullet type is going to zip right through.

You know, one of the better performing 9x19 rounds in real life is a Federal "+P+" 115gr JHP. One of the successful users is a law enforcement agency in Illinois. It can get pretty cold in Illinois, and people wear a fair amount of clothing when out and about during winter.

Note that the Federal 115 gr 9BP and 9BPLE were very inconsistent in testing, with insufficient penetration in bare gelatin, bullet fragmentation leading to poor expanded diameter, and a high failure to expand in denim testing.

-- http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1624-New-9-mm-ammo-testing&p=42097&viewfull=1#post42097​

 

[G.barnes]

If your worried about expansion issues you could use a polymer filled tip like the zombie max ammo or go with federal hydro shock, they have a fit in the middle to keep stuff from filling it up and hurting expansion.

 

[19-3Ben]

You are very mistaken; and there’s plenty of autopsy evidence to prove it. Contrary to what you believe, what actually happens is that IN ADDITION TO clogging the bullet’s nose cavity, fabric and loose fibers, also, entangle the bullet, reduce rotational torque, and impede forward momentum. (Looks like you’ve never read a relevant autopsy report, huh!)

Admittedly I'm not an expert, but I have been reading and researching the issue for years, and what you are stating as fact flies in the face of ever source I have ever read. To say that clothing fibers can "entangle the bullet, reduce rotational torque, and impede forward momentum." is just bizarre and with the amounts of energy and the speed involved, this just sounds wrong.
Can you please cite sources?

 

[Mike1234567]

I'll stick with my 124gr HST... maybe 147gr HST later if it's affordable again.

 

[Bobson]

It shouldn't matter what you think a BG will be wearing or their mental state. Carry as large of a hammer as you can. You may be able you to conceal a larger firearm in winter.

I conceal a Glock 19 without issue in AZ summer heat. I've been considering switching to a G34 as my EDC - the size is a non issue for me. But I'm going to keep with a 9mm regardless, especially after this thread.

FWIW, I currently use 147gr Gold Dots, and have no interest in switching.

 

[Mike1234567]

It shouldn't matter what you think a BG will be wearing or their mental state. Carry as large of a hammer as you can. You may be able you to conceal a larger firearm in winter.

Here in south Texas I NEVER wear a jacket... even if it's 20 degrees because I won't be exposed to the weather that long anyway. I doubt any bad guys will be heavily bundled-up if they break into my house unless they're stupid because heavy clothing would inhibit their movements. Again though, I live in a semi-tropical area.

 

[chains1240]

Hornady Critical Defense

I carry Hornady Critical Defense 9mm in the cold winter months in Michigan. The polymer tip is supposed to keep the tip from getting clogged by heavy material.