Advantages of Carbines?

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DRMMR02

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What exactly are the advantagees of carbines? I know that the extended barrel allows more pressure to buiild and thus increases the fps, but is it that much? Is a pistol caliber carbine, like say, the CX4 Storm, really all that much better than a pistol in the same caliber? Why not go for a rifle caliber weapon, like an M4. It seems that if you're gonna go for a larger weapon for more power and accuracy, why still use pistol caliber rounds?

And is it pronounced car-byne or car-bean?
 
The M4 is a carbine. Pronounced "kar-been", but no one should get hassled over saying "kar-bine"

Some pistol caliber carbines show a definite improvement over the same caliber in a pistol. Others, not so much. The .45ACP and 9mm, for example, not so much. Magnum caliber pistol cartridges, there is a definite performance improvement, to the point that they are viable to consider short-range rifles.

Ease of hitting the target should go up with any carbine vs. a pistol, along with the performance increase and range increase. Most pistol caliber carbines are cheaper to shoot than a rifle caliber, due to the less expensive ammo. Recoil is less than a typical rifle, as well. So there are reasons for them. If they don't make sense to you, well, buy different guns.
 
Greatest benefit:
A carbine is more accurate by virtue of having it up against your shoulder. A more steady hold always equals better accuracy.
 
Both ways of pronouncing carbine are legal, as per dictionary.

Sixgunner has it right. Some autopistol calibers don't give much better performance with a longer barrel. 10mm might, 9mm+p might be better in a carbine. Longer barrels might increase accuracy some... and a carbine/any long gun is easier to aim than a handgun. Less recoil, cheaper to shoot.
Full sized guns aren't as easy to manipulate in tight quarters. Carbines in rifle calibers reduce the power of some rounds... but, again - make them easier to manipulate in close quarters, easier to carry around in the bush.
 
i think it could also have to do with your primary weapon and sidearm having interchangable magazines and ammunition. Dependant on the guns of course
 
Part of it is volumetric efficiency of certain cartriges.

Say, for example, you have a beautiful short rifle with a barrel length of 17 inches. It's cute, it swings quickly, comes to the shoulder and eye effortlessly and dagnabbit, it's just sexy. Let's say it's a Chilean Mauser- Cavalry model, 1895 in 7x57.

Now, suppose you have a second Chilean Mauser model of 1895, but this one is an infantry rifle with say, a 29 inch barrel. It's still relatively slim, but it handles like a shovel in tighter quarters, it doesn't come to bear as quickly as the shorter model, and it takes a couple of seconds or five to get a quick sight picture because you have to find that bobbling front sight almost a yard out there. It too is a 7x57.

Which one is more pleasant to shoot? The long-barrelled infantry rifle. The shorty is going to ring your bell with the concussion of burning gases still flaming out the end of the barrel. The longer barrel gives the medium-sized powder charge more room within the greater, but still enclosed space in which to fully combust. Your exterior ballistics are going to be better with the longer barrel, as time and distance are your friends, to a point. Otherwise, we'd all be shooting rifles with 10 foot long barels.

Now, to a more efficient carbine or pistol cartrige. My old 9mm AR shot pretty decent groups with the 16 inch barrel. 9mm is pretty efficient, volumetrically speaking, in a 5 to 7 inch barrel, but there was no need for a flash hider with the AR as everything was consumed within that 16 inches. It also goes without saying that I could make a lot tighter groups at 100 yards with it than I can my Browning Hi-Power.

Another example- the M1 Carbine fires a smallish .30 caliber round that doesn't have much recoil whatsoever. It was ok as a military round under most circumstances in close range social work. In my Ruger Blackhawk, however, it's a loud, scary flamethrower that will rupture eardrums 3 lanes down. 19 inches (or so) vs. 7 1/2 inches and a cylinder gap. Volumetric efficiency. It's losing pressure before the pressure pulse stars to drop due to the end of the combustion cycle in a shorter barrel vs. a longer one, although the mechanisms of the weapon design aren't factored in- gas op, closed breech vs. a revolver's cylinder gap.

Historically, carbines were issued to troops who would not normally be issued a long rifle but for whom a pistol or revolver was not satisfactory. Cavalry units and dragoons (although initially outfitted with a brace of pistols), engineers, artillerymen, cooks, clerks, drivers, and later, tankers were issued the carbine because they were not directly in an infantry role, per se.

Given a choice, I'd take an M1 carbine over a .38 Victory model if I were pressed into the front lines and a full sized infantry rifle was not immediately available. I bet I'd try to pick up the first longarm I could when I got there, though.

The late Col. Cooper was a proponent of a light repeating infantry carbine chambered in something along the lines of .44 magnum or .44 AutoMag. That probably would be a confidence-builder.

Regards,
Rabbit.
 
You are going to get better accuracy with a weapon with a stock than any handgun. When you shoot a handgun the "stock" is your arms;those quavering sticks of instable jello jutting out from your shoulder. If I were in a outdoor gun battle, I would prefer a single-shot .22 rifle to any handgun, no matter how fancy.
 
^ undeniable [EDIT: Mis-read; thought he meant shorter barreled (handguns). Longer barreled? Debatable.] Ballistically, worst case is you pretty much break even with 9mm/.38 Special. Also that much harder to carry/conceal, but that doesn't apply as much if at all to a defensive posture.


The uniform caliber with a sidearm can help the argument a lot.
 
Is a pistol caliber carbine, like say, the CX4 Storm, really all that much better than a pistol in the same caliber?

Heaps better. Simply by virtue of having a stock, you've already increased your potential for speed and accuracy a good bit. As to why you wouldn't step up to an M4gery, meh. Ammo compatibility, easier for smaller people, maybe cheaper. I'd go for the M4gery but nothin' wrong with a (insert pistol cartridge) carbine.

And is it pronounced car-byne or car-bean?

Car-bean is what I hear a lot and it's just as good as the other. But it sounds silly to my ears. Would you say "this is a great red ween"? Byne for me.
 
Well not everyone has the $ for an M-4, and once in a while someone comes out with a pistol-caliber carbine that's cheap and affordable as a plinker/camp rifle. No one wants to admit that a 'camp' gun is a self defense tool, but that's what it's designed for.

In some places, (sadly) you can't own a handgun. In other places, a long rifle would be overkill.

Also it seems like there has been a trend at least in .22's to market the same 'action' as a rifle or pistol... this allows a pistol maker into a rifle market with less R&D.
 
Agreed, Dr.Rob. Even S.W.A.T. mag did a review of the sub- $200. HiPoint carbine in .40S&W awhile back. A $200 plastic fantastic you bought by saving and occasionally eating beans and rice beats that $1600 ubertactical M4gery you drool over in the magazines every time you wait at the barber shop when you need something in a hurry.



Regards,
Rabbit.
 
They are great when you want a little more than a handgun and a little less than a rifle, most 9mm and 45acp rounds usually pick up between 100fps to 200fps more velocity when fired out of 16” barrel and generally these carbines offer better range, stopping power and accuracy (or should I say are easier to shoot accurately at long range) than a handgun firing the same round but without some of the worries of firing a true rifle round such as hearing damage should you have to shoot indoors, penetration of exterior walls or sending bullets way over in the next county.

They are also cheap and fun to shoot, I always have a good time at the range with mine

Carbine.jpg
 
I find that for most uses, my preference is for what could best be described as carbines.

They're smaller, lighter and handier than a full-sized rifle without much of a range handicap. It's easier to hit stuff with than a pistol, especially past about 15 yards or so, and quicker on follow-ups with more power (mostly).

My Marlin 1894PG gets shot the most. It's a .44 Magnum, 20" levergun. As we say here in New England, "it's wicked good." (That's really, really good, awesome, gnarly, excellent to you non-New England types! ;) )

Also handy is my TC Katahdin Carbine, .50-cal. muzzleloader. It's also only 20" of barrel, and only about 34" in OAL. Can't wait to take this one into the brush! :cool:

Power is a relative. Chop the barrel of a .300 Win Mag to 20" and you have a carbine.
 
Wow, that CX4 doesn't look so bad now that I see it next to a UMP. :cool:


Oh, and my vote is for Car-Bine (rhymes with Wine, as someone else said). :D I don't care about the historical reason for the -bean version....I speak english and thats how its spelt.
 
I don't care about the historical reason for the -bean version....I speak english and thats how its spelt.
Did I reed that correctly, or maybe I misunderstood you because of something else I red on the subject.

At least we are not talking about macheen guns, because they don't have the same cross-platform compatability with pistol magazeens.

:D Sorry, I couldn't resist having a little fun with the spelling/pronunciation thing. I guess I should go wash my mouth out with Listereen!
 
Advantages always have to be in comparison to something ... in this case, likely handguns or rifles. And then you have the cartridge question ...

Handgun "pros" - Concealable, easy to handle in tight quarters, good capacity and fast reloads (with semi-autos) ...

Handgun "cons" - Short barrel and short sight radius yield reduced power and (generally speaking) less accuracy--practically if not inherently ...

Rifle "pros" - almost the opposite of the handgun's "cons." Long barrel and long sight radius yield greater power and more inherent and practical accuracy; often superior optics (scopes, etc.) yield even greater accuracy. Assuming semi-auto (to keep in line with the semi-auto handgun), still have rapid follow up. Handles much more powerful cartridges than the handgun, so has the greatest range, penetration, etc.

Rifle "cons" - Not concealable, difficult to handle in close quarters, more weight, including heavier ammo if using a rifle cartridge ...

Carbine: split the difference!
 
my $0.02

I read on another forum (possibly the hi-point forum or a link from there) that a 9mm and/or .40 S&W out of a 16'' barrel have similar ballistics to a .357 out of a 3'' to 4'' barrel.:eek:

Also that since there is a significant speed increase out of rifle/carbine length, bonded bullets should be used for close-in work. (to prevent bullet fragmentation):what:

Yess??? No??? :confused:
 
You can easily hit an intruder with a carbine, even if you just woke up and are shaking from adrenaline, provided you practice with a long gun every once in a while.

A pistol? You have to hold steadier. Also, a lot of people flinch a lot. With a carbine, a bit of flinch doesn't matter at defensive distances. With a pistol you can miss a target completely.
 
I picked up a Rock River 9mm CAR-A2 because it is insanely cheap to shoot and I can shoot it at the local range that does not allow "real" rifles.

If things ever got furry, it would not be the first thing I would grab but I would not feel nekked holding it if it was close by.

Also I wanted a rifle that would not look silly with all sorts of junk hanging off of it. I have only added a vertical fore-grip so far but am going to a gun show tomorrow...
myblackrifle.gif
 
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