Advice: Lever guns for my girls!

[the cableguy]

Hi,

I grew up in Pennsylvania hunting whitetails with a lever action. I now live in Washington, and two significant developments have just occurred. My wife is interested in hunting next year (and given the choice between bolt or lever action, she wants a lever action. Yes!) AND I found out my 8 yr old daughter will be old enough to hunt next year as well (in PA I had to wait until I was 12).

So, this has raised a couple of issues that need solving. Mainly, what gun and what caliber?

I hunt with a Marlin 336BL that is 37" long and weighs 7.5 lbs, chambered for 30-30. My wife recently held and fired it and thought it was too heavy and kicked too hard. Therefore, I am thinking of getting her a lever action in 44 Rem Mag. I know this is a very powerful handgun round but it MUST be less powerful than a 30-30 rifle round, right? Can anyone speak to this? I have never fired a 44 Mag rifle and have no idea how it would kick. I want my wife to be comfortable and look forward to practicing with her rifle. Of course, alternatives would be 45 colt and 357 mag but I think if she enjoys hunting, like I hope, she would even be interested in hunting bear eventually. Any thoughts? The gun that I am thinking of for her would either be the Marlin 1894 deluxe (37.5" and 6.5 lbs) or the 1894 SS (37.5" and 6lbs). Or there is the Rossi M92 carbine with 16" barrel only weighing 5lbs but I would want to put a scope on it to give her an advantage since she has no hunting experience and little gun experience and I'm not sure you can do this with a Rossi.

Now for my daughter. She is only 8 and I have similar concerns. I am thinking nothing bigger than 45 Colt for her BUT I have no idea if this would be an effective deer cartridge, or waht the recoil in a rifle in a rifle would be like. Anyone with experience on this? Additionally, the only "suitable" rifle I can find for my daighter is the Rossi M92 carbine with a short 16" barrel that only weighs 5lbs. It seems like it would be a great fit for her.

Here are my itemized questions:
1. Would a 44 mag rifle kick less/more than a 30-30 rifle?
2. Max distance for taking deer with 44 mag rifle?
3. Would the recoil from a 45 colt be too much for an 8 yr old girl?
4. Is 45 colt an adequate cartridge for deer? If so, max distance?
5. I know Marlins are great, but what is the deal with Rossi? I have heard of problems (mainly with the 454 casull round that I am personally interested in )

I am excited for my gals to begin their hunting adventures next year and really want to choose the right caliber and gun for both of them. Thanks in advance for your help and advice!

-will

 

[CoRoMo]

...less powerful than a 30-30 rifle round, right?

Correct.

1. According to this chart, they kick about the same. The .30-30 might even kick less with 150gr. bullets. The lighter the rifle, the more kick.
2. Depends on shooter abilities. Might want to limit shots to 100 yards or closer.
3. Depends on the 8-year old girl.
4. Absolutely. Same as answer #2.
5. Rossi is good, foreign made. They build a less expensive rifle. Lemons show up in most all lines of guns. More so, sometimes, in the inexpensively built & foreign imports.

 

[wombat13]

Short answer: .357 mag will kick less than the .30-.30 in the same weight rifle and the .44 mag will kick about the same as the .30-.30. .45 Colt depends on whether it is a low pressure or high pressure load.

Of course the weight of the rifle and the stock design are key variables.

This table has all four calibers you mentioned:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

Here is a table comparing the trajectory for various rounds:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_trajectory_table.htm. It looks like the maximum point blank range for .30-.30 is about 225 yards while .357 and .44 are about 150 to 160 yards.

 

[WNC Seabee]

The Rossi M92 .357 20" that I picked up last week was very impressive for it's handling, slick action and (so far) reliability.

I've only run ~150 rounds through it, but so far have had no feeding or ejection issues and the accuracy was well above expectations.

 

[the cableguy]

Seabee,

Are you able to work 38 Specials through that same action with no problems?

Thnx

-will

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Cable Guy, As for the wife, Browning BLR in 7mm.08 will solve your problem quite nicely. Very mild recoil and plenty of power for Deer and Black Bear with a 140 grain pill.

As for the little one, Junior model rifles are out there but can be a bit hard to find sometimes when you need to FIT her up. As far as recoil, telling us she is 8 really means little. Would help more to know her size as well as toughness. My 6 year old daughter shoots one of my 7mm.08's often and loves it but she also jumps on my 30/30 (not now my Oldest has adopted it) and can tolerate it a few shots. Just because they are little doesn't mean they cant hang. The most important thing you need to deal with is fit. If it is too much pull length she wont be able to shoot it well or get comfortable with the weapon. When mine is ready to get out hunting I will have a weapon stocked for her dimensions that she can pull up and fire with comfort and confidence. The Jr. Model Rossi is a good choice really since she will out grow it pretty quick (they grow fast trust me) I would go for something along the lines of a 7mm.08 or .243 for her and load up some 120g pills. As far as the load for the wife, 139g Hornady SST or Interbond (if they shoot well from that rifle) will do a wonderful job on deer and Blackies all day every day.

Edit Note: On the Jr Model Rossi I was talking about the single shot not the lever. Little ones will actually learn better on a single shot because for one, it is less to deal with, for two they know in their heads "I only have one shot so make it count"

 

[MichaelK]

I took last year's deer with a .44 magnum Marlin rifle and can attest to the idea that the recoil is about the same as a .30-30. I took my deer at 60 yards and got 100% penetration through the chest without a recovered bullet. Judging from the size of the exit hole, the 240 grain hollowpoint mushroomed but held together as a single slug.

I'd be comfortable taking a deer out to about 100-125 yards, but after that bullet drop might cause problems.

One very important point about pistol carbines is that you can also shoot .44 specials (or .38 specials) through them. Both you wife and daughter could practice with specials untill they're proficient, then switch to magnums for hunting. If you want to get a .45 Colt rifle for your daughter, I'd recommend practicing first with Cowboy action loads, which are very light and good for beginners.

 

[MCgunner]

What? No .357? A .357" 165 grain bullet at 1900 fps...think about it. Then, adjust elevation and load up with a 105 grain .38 special at 900 fps for squirrel. .357 is my fav round for lever guns where ranges do not exceed 100 yards for deer/hog and if I want versatility. Nothing wrong with the .30-30. Just for deer, I'd default to the .30-30.

 

[bigfatdave]

I'm no hunting expert, but you should check out the Henry Big Boy and see if it meets your needs for a centerfire lever gun.

For that matter, if the goal is to learn to run a lever gun, Henry makes great rimfires that handle about the same as their bigger brothers.

 

[Bearhands]

I'll cast my vote for the 30-30...... if you don't reload try these:

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-recoil/managed-recoil.aspx
FWIW:
I've used them in 30-06 and the recoil reminds me of my Mod 94 30-30 with 170's..

 

[stonecoldy]

I'll vote with Bearhands-I think you have some options with the .30-30 with factory ammo with reduced recoil loads. I have a buddy looking at a Marlin 336 in this caliber for his 12 year old daughter, she's average in size for that age.
I load my .30-30 with 165 gr lead round-nose flat points at around 1500 fps for plinking fun, they get shot up fast at the range (pretty mild) through the Marlin 336.
No flies on the .357 either, one of my favorites for just plain shooting but new/used Marlin 1894Cs are scarce and pricey ($579 new) here in southwestern Ohio. I have never seen a used one locally.

 

[T.R.]

Good used 30-30's are available just about anywhere. This shop has 3 Marlins in used-but-not-abused condition and priced approx $300. with mounted scopes:

MUSSERS OUTDOORS
Ephrata, Pennsylvania
717 738 4800

Remington's Managed Recoil ammo is TOPS!!

TR

 

[flipajig]

As stated the 44 and 30-30 are about the same in recoil. with reduced recoil loads they are not bad. My Daughter is shooting my M94 winchester and she is 10 she is shooting a 200grn Nosler HP and its running around 1800 rpms it will get the job done out to 100 yds maybe 150 max. My son is shooting a hand load also 130 grn Speer Hot core running around 2200rpms same distance to me the recoil is about the same. so in other words I feel that its sixes eather way just depends on what you want to me I like them booth

 

[Water-Man]

The .357mag would be the best solution based on your requirements. Loaded with premium 158gr.-180gr. ammunition and keeping your shots under 100 yds., deer and black bear are well within its capabilities. I have taken both game with a Puma M92 in this caliber.

 

[kanook]

Pistol ammo usually cost less and you get more= more practice

Pistol ammo usually has less recoil= more practice

Pistol ammo out to on the average of 100yds will work fine

Buffalo bore ammo claims that their 357mag ammo is in 30/30 territory (I cannot disprove or prove this claim, only what the website claims)

 

[unwise11]

30-30 has little felt recoil with a good pad.