30-30 reduced recoil or 44 magnum

[coelacanth]

am I the only one around here who remembers the. . .

7x30 Waters? I still shoot a Winchester 94 angle eject in that caliber and it not only extends the range of the venerable 30-30 but flattens the trajectory and reduces the recoil at the same time. Neck down the 30-30 case to a 7mm bullet in the 130-140 grain range and you've got the ideal gun and cartridge combo for the lady in question. BTW - it is a deadly killer out to 200 yds on deer, coyotes and javelina.

 

[dmazur]

You may already have made a decision, but I'd suggest something like Ruger's M77 MarkII Compact. This has a 16-1/2" barrel, a short LOP and is offered in .243 Win. While it may suffer a little in muzzle velocity due to shorter barrel length, it's around the same size as a short lever gun (like a Trapper). With a Limbsaver recoil pad, she probably won't complain about the recoil. (Ruger's standard pads are only slightly better than a steel plate...)

 

[peterotte]

That 7x30 Waters has impressive ballistics! Does someone still chamber a rifle for it? And Ammo? Marksman13 has said he is not a reloader and he has made a decision. Still, that Waters sounded a lot like his answer!

 

[marksman13]

I haven't bought anything yet, so I'm not sure you could say I have really made up my mind yet. I've never heard of a 7x30 Waters. Actually, the name sounds vaguely familiar, but I don't know anything about it. I'm guessing this would be a handload only type of round. Anybody have any specs on it? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[peterotte]

A bit squashed up but it's all there!

Cartridge: 7-30 Waters
Load Type: Rifle
Starting Loads

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Maximum Loads

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Bullet Weight (Gr.) Order BW Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure

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100 GR. HDY HP 100 Varget .284" 2.700" 35.0 2660 31,400 CUP 38.0C 2814 35,000 CUP
100 GR. HDY HP 100 BL-C(2) .284" 2.700" 39.0 2858 33,500 CUP 41.0 2965 35,500 CUP
100 GR. HDY HP 100 H335 .284" 2.700" 33.0 2743 33,900 CUP 36.0 2913 39,300 CUP
100 GR. HDY HP 100 H4895 .284" 2.700" 34.0 2707 33,500 CUP 37.0C 2908 39,200 CUP
100 GR. HDY HP 100 Benchmark .284" 2.700" 27.0 2407 29,600 CUP 30.5 2646 39,300 CUP
100 GR. HDY HP 100 H322 .284" 2.700" 27.0 2447 30,500 CUP 30.0 2679 40,200 CUP
120 GR. NOS FP 120 Varget .284" 2.550" 34.0 2480 31,100 CUP 37.0C 2653 40,000 CUP
120 GR. NOS FP 120 BL-C(2) .284" 2.550" 35.0 2484 28,800 CUP 38.0 2689 38,900 CUP
120 GR. NOS FP 120 H335 .284" 2.550" 31.0 2407 29,600 CUP 34.0 2606 39,700 CUP
120 GR. NOS FP 120 H4895 .284" 2.550" 31.0 2413 33,200 CUP 34.5 2654 39,400 CUP
120 GR. NOS FP 120 Benchmark .284" 2.550" 26.5 2267 31,500 CUP 29.5 2474 40,200 CUP
120 GR. NOS FP 120 H322 .284" 2.550" 26.0 2274 29,500 CUP 29.0 2497 40,200 CUP
130 GR. SIE HPBT 130 Varget .284" 2.720" 32.0 2336 30,600 CUP 35.6C 2561 40,100 CUP
130 GR. SIE HPBT 130 BL-C(2) .284" 2.720" 33.0 2353 30,500 CUP 35.5 2548 38,700 CUP
130 GR. SIE HPBT 130 H335 .284" 2.720" 29.0 2221 28,800 CUP 32.0 2457 39,600 CUP
130 GR. SIE HPBT 130 H4895 .284" 2.720" 31.0 2360 31,000 CUP 33.4C 2528 39,500 CUP
130 GR. SIE HPBT 130 Benchmark .284" 2.720" 25.0 2078 28,900 CUP 28.0 2314 40,100 CUP
130 GR. SIE HPBT 130 H322 .284" 2.720" 25.0 2142 31,600 CUP 27.3 2320 39,300 CUP
139 GR. HDY FP 139 Varget .284" 2.550" 32.0 2251 30,900 CUP 35.5C 2472 39,100 CUP
139 GR. HDY FP 139 BL-C(2) .284" 2.550" 33.0 2299 31,800 CUP 35.5 2468 39,800 CUP
139 GR. HDY FP 139 H335 .284" 2.550" 29.0 2207 31,900 CUP 31.5 2355 39,800 CUP
139 GR. HDY FP 139 H4895 .284" 2.550" 30.0 2250 32,900 CUP 33.0 2435 39,800 CUP
139 GR. HDY FP 139 Benchmark .284" 2.550" 25.0 2048 31,000 CUP 28.0 2220 39,600 CUP
139 GR. HDY FP 139 H322 .284" 2.550 24.0 1981 28,500 CUP 27.0 2217 39,400 CUP
145 GR. SPR SP 145 Varget .284" 2.720" 31.0 2217 33,600 CUP 34.2 2439 39,700 CUP
145 GR. SPR SP 145 BL-C(2) .284" 2.720" 31.0 2208 31,300 CUP 34.0 2415 39,300 CUP
145 GR. SPR SP 145 H335 .284" 2.720" 28.5 2183 32,400 CUP 30.5 2310 40,000 CUP
145 GR. SPR SP 145 H4895 .284" 2.720" 29.0 2238 35,100 CUP 32.0 2369 39,900 CUP
145 GR. SPR SP 145 Benchmark .284" 2.720" 25.0 2037 30,200 CUP 28.0 2235 40,100 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT 150 Varget .284" 2.780" 31.0 2215 32,900 CUP 34.2C 2388 40,000 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT 150 BL-C(2) .284" 2.780" 31.0 2165 29,000 CUP 34.0 2368 39,900 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT 150 H335 .284" 2.780" 28.5 2147 30,300 CUP 30.5 2268 39,400 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT 150 H4895 .284" 2.780" 29.0 2192 33,300 CUP 32.0C 2347 39,600 CUP
150 GR. NOS BT 150 Benchmark .284" 2.780" 23.0 1929 30,400 CUP 26.0 2144 39,200 CUP
168 GR. SIE HPBT 168 Varget .284" 2.780" 29.0 2089 33,000 CUP 32.0C 2229 39,200 CUP
168 GR. SIE HPBT 168 BL-C(2) .284" 2.780" 31.0 2131 32,000 CUP 33.6 2315 40,000 CUP
168 GR. SIE HPBT 168 H335 .284" 2.780" 28.5 2112 34,000 CUP 30.2 2221 39,600 CUP
168 GR. SIE HPBT 168 H4895 .284" 2.780" 28.0 2132 34,400 CUP 30.2 2222 38,600 CUP
168 GR. SIE HPBT 168 Benchmark .284" 2.780" 23.0 1897 31,600 CUP 25.5 2055 39,800 CUP

NEVER EXCEED MAXIMUM LOADS

 

[Koos Custodiet]

forget the 170grn 30-30 loads those are laughably anemic. despite published ballistics they SELDOM break 2000 fps in a 20" barrel and are more likely to be going 1900 fps

Eish I *have* to jump in here.

My 170 grain 30-30 load [1] out of a standard 336 gave 2291 2315 2303 last time I shot over my Chrony.

Privi Partisan 170 grainers gave 1950, sure.

But I push 170 grainers at 2300 and get 2" 100m 5 shot groups if everything plays along.

To the OP : your wife wants to shoot. This is a Big Deal (TM). Start reloading. There's some nifty little 110-ish grain 30 cal bullets she can use for practice. Hopefully your eyes match hers, so you can reset the sights for the 150 or 170 grainers, when she's popping the deer she ain't gonna notice the recoil

Koos, who has been known to load 89 grain lead 32ACP bullets in his thuddy-thuddy.

[1] 32.5 grains of a .za powder called S335. Sierra #2010s. If you use this load and something blows up, guess what! You get to keep ALL THE PIECES you can find

 

[ReadyontheRight]

What about an autoloader like a Remington 7400 or the new 750? The action will take up some of the recoil.

The 7400 and 750 come in .243. You could also go with reduced recoil 30-06.

Your idea to fit a new, shorter stock and recoil pad to your Marlin is a great idea as well.

Any chance it will be cold out when hunting? A thick jacket helps with recoil. Maybe get her a hunting vest with shoulder padding. My Browning trap shooting vest also has a gel pack insert.

 

[Bezoar]

either work well, and heres a tip for ya

in the 30-30 switch to full size hollow points from winchester, those buggers have little recoil for my "elderly" mother. And they really work on deer.

Get a win 94ae, those are great guns. Get the 200 grain jhp/xtp from Hornadys pistol ammo line. Those are extremely accurate with a cold barrel. And at 90 yards they are the only hollow point i have seen that will expand in wet stumps.
And seriously, when it comes to deer hunting you only need 1 or 2 shots.

 

[peterotte]

Koos, who has been known to load 89 grain lead 32ACP bullets in his thuddy-thuddy.

I've been known to load them in my 303, in cast form. Jacketed should be great for higher velocities.

....when she's popping the deer she ain't gonna notice the recoil ...

Those are my sentiments too! I've never seen them but low recoil factory ammo is available for the 30-30 so marksman13 has the world at his feet! Eish!

Peter

 

[marksman13]

She is dead set on a lever action gun. I don't know what we are gonna do. She wants to bow hunt now as well, so I guess we will see what this year brings. Season opened today, so I am making my first trip to the woods in the morning.

 

[peterotte]

marksman13, have you considered a pair of 'identical' guns in different calibres? That way, it would be OK to have one in a more 'exotic' calibre for use only on deer since ammo could be ordered in, while the other, off the shelf calibre, would be used for practice - something like a 22 Mag.

Regards
Peter

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Right now we're awfully short of centerfire lever guns that have .22 or .22 Magnum counterparts -- only Marlin offers them.

 

[peterotte]

I found this reference on the 'net

The 7-30 Waters was developed to provide new levels of performance to a class of firearms long considered outdated -- lever-action, tubular magazine rifles like the Winchester 1894. Such rifles hold a sizeable following, as their small size and easy handling characteristics more than make up for the lack of target-shooting precision in the minds of millions of American deer hunters.

In 1976, gun writer/researcher Ken Waters began the development of the cartridge, and in six years had pushed the modified .30-30 cartridge to ballistics unheard of in such applications. The neck of the .30-30 is decreased to 7mm and occurs slightly farther down the 7-30's case body, utilizing much of the .30-30's well-known long neck for increased powder capacity. Additionally, the slope of the neck is less steep in the 7-30, again increasing case volume.

Winchester soon became interested in Water's accomplishment, and in 1984 introduced the stronger Winchester 1894 XTR "Angle-Eject" carbine in 7-30 Waters and other new chamberings. Included in the XTR re-design was an improved cartridge ejection mechanism permitting mounting of optics directy on top of the action, centerline with the bore.

The 7-30 Waters does indeed offer improved performance over it's century-old .30 caliber brother, nominally pushing similar weight bullets 200 to 300 feet-per-second faster. But the .307 Winchester, achieving velocities of the much more potent .308 Winchester would replace the 7-30 in it's intended role. Winchester and Federal have since discontinued their commercial 7-30 ammunition offerings. As the availability of loaded 7-30 Waters ammunition is likely to be a problem, the cartridge is of practical use primarily to handloaders.