30-30 reduced recoil or 44 magnum

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marksman13

marksman13

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Hi guys. My wife recently fell in love with lever guns after some range time with my Henry H001. She wants a lever gun for deer season, but she is very recoil sensitive. She shoots the little lever action 22 quite well and she can shoot my .243 suprisingly well for a couple of rounds, but two or three shots is about the most she will shoot the 243. Given her recent taste for lever actions I believe I am going to get her a lever gun of her own. I have an old Marlin 30-30 collecting dust, but I honsetly think it will have more recoil than she will enjoy. Making this rifle fun to shoot is a must because I want her to practice with it. I was wondering how much difference there was in felt recoil between regular loads and reduced recoil loads. Should I just spend the money and her a 44 mag? Will it kick any less than the 30-30? Thanks guys.
 
Go with the 44mag...

I was very pleasantly surprised with my first 1894 44 magnum. Dancing cans across the ground on open sights and while not a mega load, the 240 grain federal 44 magnum loads had minimal recoil but plenty of punch for deer to 125 or 150 yards or so. The 44 is a very unintimidating rifle to shoot and very handy handling package. Just one womans take on 1894's in 44 mag...

Patty
 
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Browning BLR in .243 by chance?

There are some bolt guns chambered (CZ maybe, knowledgable people help me out, here) for 7.62x39. You'd have to go expensive custom work to get that into a BLR or 99 or something, though. The 7.62 is mild recoil, but effective. I suppose it'd be easier to back off the .30-30 by handloading though. I'm just speculating. :D I had a friend with a .44 mag M336 Marlin back 40 years ago. I was a kid and it seemed to kick a little back then, but not objectionably. I was used to a 16 gauge and a .257 Roberts at the time, so I guess I was becoming recoil tolerant. I have a .357 Magnum carbine that is nice, light recoil, and I've killed a doe at 80 yards with it. Using Buffalo Bore, that might reach a little over 100 yards. I limit my shooting to 100 yards with the gun and don't hunt with it anymore. I have better set ups for serious hunting.
 
As I recall my .44 had more recoil than my .30-30. This is with 240gr. .44 vs. 150 gr. .30-30. However, both loads have mild recoil and muzzle blast.
 
Because the wife wants a deer rifle of her own is a good reason to buy a new gun IMHO.:) Then again, I'm in a different situation - my wife has been a hunter for a lot of years and like me, already has more guns than she needs.
I can't comment on that factory "reduced recoil" ammo as neither my wife nor I have ever used it. We load most of our own ammo. Occationally we'll put together some low-power stuff for plinking and practice with our big game rifles, but we don't use that ammo for serious.
When fired in the same size rifles I doubt there's a lot of difference in recoil between a full powered .44 Magnum round and a full powered 30-30 round. I don't remember the model number, but my dad had a Marlin .44 Magnum for a while, and as far as I could tell, it kicked just about the same as my 30-30. Admittedly, I'm not all that recoil sensitive so I don't think either of them kicked very much.
I really believe the best thing for you to do so that your wife doesn't get the heck kicked out of her by ANY big game rifle is to make sure the rifle fits. Regardless of whether you turn your old 30-30 over to her or buy her a new rifle of her own, have the stock cut to fit and have a decent recoil pad installed. After that you can use those factory "reduced recoil" loads or build your own for practice, but I'll bet you'll be surprised how your wife handles recoil with a gun that fits.
Oh, one more thing - make sure your wife has plenty of ear protection. Muzzel blast contributes a lot to recoil perception.
 
My wife does pretty well with her Rossi 92 .44mag. Te usual plinking/practice round is a mild concoction of 240gr LSWC and Trail Boss. Shoots really mild.

Frankly, I would be more confident with a reduced-velocity .44mag than a reduced-velocity .30-30 due to the larger diameter. Whether the bullet hits at 1000fps or 1500fps, a .44mag LSWC is going to cut a roughly .44" diameter hole in a deer. Can we expect the reduced-velocity .30-30 JSP to expand as it ought?
 
A .44 Mag lever-gun kicks more then a 30-30 lever-gun, or at least mine do.

And I'm going to say if she can only shoot a .243 two or three times, she is not going to like either the .44 Mag or the 30-30 very much either!

On the otherhand, a .44 Marlin handles .44 Spl. Cowboy loads just fine.
And they don't kick at all.

Maybe after she shoots them a while, she could move up to mid-range .44 Mag loads like the Remington Express 240 grain load.

1224.jpg
rcmodel
 
I would just put a recoil pad on the 30-30, I assume it just has the hard plastic factory one. Anyway, that should make it fine for her, if she doesn't mide the extra length added to to stock.
 
A .44 Mag lever-gun kicks more then a 30-30 lever-gun, or at least mine do.
Click to expand...
Correct. Let's compare a .44 Mag carbine load, 240 grain bullet at 1800 fps with a .30-30 170 grain bullet at 2100 fps. We'll assume the carbines each weigh 6 lbs.

The formula is M1*V1 = M2 * V2.

Carbine mass = 6/32.2 = 0.186 slug

240 grain bullet
--------------- = 0.001 slug
32.2 * 7000

170 grain bullet
--------------- = 0.0008 slug
32.2 * 7000

Recoil velocity of .44 Mag

.001 s * 1800 fps
------------------ = 9.67 fps
0.186 s

Recoil velocity of .30-30

.0008 s * 2100 fps
------------------ = 9.03 fps
0.186 s
 
My wife enjoys shooting the Marlin 1894C, using .38 special rounds. No recoil at all, and tons of fun, let me tell you.
 
If recoil is a main concern then ditch the 44mag 30-30 Idea and buy a levergun in .357/38

kills deer just as dead as the other two rounds with almost NO recoil or noise
 
If recoil is a main concern then ditch the 44mag 30-30 Idea and buy a levergun in .357/38

kills deer just as dead as the other two rounds with almost NO recoil or noise
Click to expand...

Bingo!

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/1894Centerfire/1894.aspx

photo_1894.jpg
 
Well, first off, we don't know the OP's wife to know her build and weight and therefore what difference there is between the Length Of Pull of the rifles and what LOP she needs for it to fit her.

The above observation made, I notice a poster or three said the rifle needs to fit her and I'm agreeing. So, the first thing I'd do is have her try the Marlin .30-30 with its current LOP and see what she thinks. And this with Remington 150gr CoreLokts... no reduced recoil stuff, not having experience with it. The round you shoot is the round you hunt with and those CoreLokts are good to 200yds... 250yds Point Blank Zero if you sight it in right.

(I'm not knocking .44mag, but I'm not addressing it here.)

Once she tries it and it's determined what her LOP needs to be, the stock can be replaced with a shortened stock with a Limbsaver pad added. Then she can shoot it again and see the difference.

I also recommend, instead of the factory sights or a scope, a Williams 5D or Foolproof with target knobs which mounts on the left side of the receiver. The sight picture won't blur so badly, and besides, she won't get bumped by the scope in any case. Most importantly, the aperture sights are easier to pick up and more accurate to aim through. Basically just put the front sight on the deer's kill zone and squeeze.
 
Lot's of good suggestions out there guys and gals. I did forget to mention that she is only about 5'2" and the main reason she likes the Henry is its compact size and lack of recoil. I don't know why I didn't think of the 357 lever gun. I've seen several deer killed with a 357 mag with a 6 in barrel. Don't know why an 18 inch barrel won't do the job. I will definately be buying her a rifle of her own because I'm not willing to cut the stock on my old 30-30. And I didn't mean to make her out as a weakling. The issue with the 243 isn't so much the amount of recoil, but rather the placement. The LOP is way too long for her and she catches all the recoil in her bicep. I was going to buy her a Remington Model 7, but she has fallen in love with lever guns. I'm gonna buy her what she wants, cuz if she's happy, I'm happy. Not to mention that if I get her addicted, then I get to spend that much more on "OUR" hunting stuff. Thanks again everybody.
 
I did forget to mention that she is only about 5'2" and the main reason she likes the Henry is its compact size and lack of recoil.
Click to expand...

Hey, us 6'/200lb. guys like little short compact rifles and carbines too.

I don't know why I didn't think of the 357 lever gun. I've seen several deer killed with a 357 mag with a 6 in barrel. Don't know why an 18 inch barrel won't do the job.
Click to expand...

The .357 cartridge is going to pick up, on average, something like 300fps from the 18" and 20" barrels on the leverguns. Add to that that you can get Hornady 180gr HP/XTP running fairly hot, with little or no extra recoil, and be running on a par in ways with the .30-30.

I will definately be buying her a rifle of her own because I'm not willing to cut the stock on my old 30-30.
Click to expand...

I noticed somebody else mentioned cutting the stock on your .30-30... you notice when it's your gun, they say cut the stock? Sometimes I wonder if they'd cut it themselves. My suggestion was getting another stock with the Limbsaver installed and swapping it onto your rifle, but not cutting your rifle's orginal stock. That way, you could easily put it back truely original in just a minute or so with a screwdriver or two.

And I didn't mean to make her out as a weakling. The issue with the 243 isn't so much the amount of recoil, but rather the placement. The LOP is way too long for her and she catches all the recoil in her bicep.
Click to expand...

I don't know about everybody else, but I never thought she was a wuss or anything. Just that felt recoil is different to everybody. I'm 6' tall and 200lbs and I'm no recoil junkie either. I shoot .243 too in a Savage Model 11GL and don't notice the recoil, but then I'm not catching it like she is either.

I was going to buy her a Remington Model 7, but she has fallen in love with lever guns. I'm gonna buy her what she wants...
Click to expand...

I'm agreeing. I know a lady locally to me... her husband is my gun/ammo/stuff dealer. Anyhow, they both hunt and he's a .243 fan and she told me she shoots a Model 7 in .260 and likes it quite well. Some of us like a lot of different rifles, but a rifle can also be just as personal as a Stetson or a pair of boots.
 
Unless you handload for the .44 Spl., or buy Buffelo Bore SWC heavy loads at $1.50 a shot, I would never recommend the .44 Spl for deer hunting.

Factory loads from the big three barely have enough power to get the bullets out of the barrel.

1224.jpg
rcmodel
 
I have never noticed any recoil to speak of from my .44 Mag levergun. And I'm shooting a light weight Puma clone. The recoil from a .30-30 is minimal as well, though you can feel it. A .35 is a notch more intense, but still very mild on the scale of things unless you start cranking that cartridge up. I can fire powerhouse massive hardcast .44's from the Puma that would seriously kick in a handgun and I get a mild push from the carbine.

The .30-30 is more tried and true for game than the .44 mag, but properly loaded with a slower powder and something like a 300 grain XTP the .44 out of a carbine will blast a deer VERY hard. The only real advantage of the .30-30 is the slightly longer effective range and the fact that it's harder to go wrong with the ammo. Anything you grab off the shelf for .30 wcf is going to be good deer medicine, or at least adequate. But you have to know what you're doing to select a real hunting load for the .44 carbine. Self defense pistol loads aren't going to cut the mustard.

One tip. Do not tell her the loads are "magnum." A lot of recoil is in the mind. The physics are very clear on this point--the actual recoil from even powerful .44's out of a carbine doesn't amount to bo didly. It's nothing. But if you tell someone they're shooting a "MAGNUM" they're going to think it's hitting them hard. It's the effect you see with people shooting M-44 mosins who are dead certain the rifle kicks a lot more than the 91/30.
 
44 mags are not a real good deal in all honesty for a rifle and deer shooting,
Click to expand...

Says who?

At woods deer hunting range a .44 Mag carbine is every bit as deadly as the 30-30, if not more so.

Bigger bullet = bigger holes in & out = faster blood loss = deer on the ground.

1224.jpg
rcmodel
 
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