Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

afraid?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Loud Dogg, May 11, 2004.

?

should the man be killed for killing a woman?

  1. Yes

    20 vote(s)
    45.5%
  2. No

    24 vote(s)
    54.5%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Loud Dogg

    Loud Dogg member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    portland oregon
    I’m writing on a new thread because I want it to be on a slightly different topic.
    Is the reason why people own guns themselves because they are scared?
    Because it makes much sense if that is so. I now DO see why guns are what they are and why people enjoy them.

    There is one quote that I would like to say:
    "An eye for an eye would leave the world bind"

    When someone kills a lady. Should he be killed?
     
  2. Josey

    Josey member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,476
    Location:
    Catfish Co, KY
    I can't answer the poll. I can say that a woman was recently killed here. Murder for profit. She was raped, beaten, driven over by a pick up and lived. She begged. The killers sat in her truck and talked and smoked until she died. What DO you suggest we do with animals like that?
     
  3. Don't Tread

    Don't Tread Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2004
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    South Florida
    you need to be more specific, are you talking murder or self-defense?

    Assuming murder, Yes, if it is known for a fact that he killed a lady in cold blood he should be killed on the spot.
     
  4. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2002
    Messages:
    18,678
    Well, depending on the circumstances, I'd vote yes or no. If a man kills a woman because he is depraved, yes. If a man kills a woman because he had to defend his life, no.

    Now, in response to your question whether I'm afraid and that's why I own handguns. No. If I was afraid and had to protect myself, I'd use my rifle instead of any of my handguns. I own guns because I enjoy collecting them. I own guns because I enjoy shooting. I own guns because I enjoy studying their mechanism. I own guns because it gives me great pleasure to enjoy the company of my family and friends. I own guns because I'm an American and I can.

    Fear? Nahhh.
     
  5. Unlucky

    Unlucky member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    204
    Location:
    Where I haven't won "life's lottery" yet.
    What man and which woman? ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2004
  6. BHPshooter

    BHPshooter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,451
    Location:
    Utah
    Did he kill her or did he murder her?

    There is a big difference.

    If he killed her, then it was either accidental or morally justifiable (like self-defense or third-party defense). I personally don't think this man should be sentenced anything, as he'd likely have a boatload of greif and trauma to deal with for the rest of his life.

    If he murdered her, then hell yes he should die. I'm a big believer in the death penalty because I don't like paying taxes so that scumbag murderers can live more comfortably than I can.

    I didn't vote because I need to know an answer first.

    Wes
     
  7. Gordon Fink

    Gordon Fink Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2003
    Messages:
    2,322
    Location:
    California
    Loud Dogg, I will give you a classic answer to your rather muddled question. It depends …

    Ownership of firearms is not about fear, in my case at least. It’s about responsibility. So you might say that I own guns for much the same reason that I don’t litter.

    ~G. Fink
     
  8. jimpeel

    jimpeel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    2,998
    Location:
    Kimball, NE
    No.

    The reason why people refuse to own guns themselves is because they are scared.

    Antis know they would be irresponsible if they owned a firearm. They believe everyone else is as irresponsible as they are so everyone must be disarmed.
     
  9. CJ

    CJ Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Messages:
    367
    Location:
    Southwest Colorado
    Not sure what you're trying to get at with the poll, but there's not enough to go on there. The issue of capital punishment, if that's what you're getting at, is completely separate from that of weapons. Perhaps a better question might address willingness to kill a man to prevent him from killing a woman.

    As for whether people are scared, I would say that some do own them because they are scared. Whenever bad event occur, people buy guns. When September 11th happened, gun sales went up. It's not logical, and highly unlikely that a gun would be useful in most terrorist situations we might see any time soon, but that response DOES occur. It is also probably not the best condition to be in when reasoning to own a weapon. I would prefer weapons owners to make an informed decision and learn before reflexively getting one.

    On this forum, however, I would guess that you will find a different attitude than fear.

    For me, I practice self-reliance. I love outdoor skills, primitive living, and learning to get by on my own. To me, guns are tools. I am also mechanically inclined and enjoy them from the designs and precision that goes into being able to contain such power with enough precision to reproduce an effect consistantly. Think about it...you're can hold a contained explosion forcing a mass at the same point on a paper target. Really pretty mechanically and chemically amazing...
     
  10. Gordon Fink

    Gordon Fink Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2003
    Messages:
    2,322
    Location:
    California
    Jim makes an excellent point! Fear keeps many people away from firearms. Among other things, fear delayed me from taking more responsibility as a husband and as a citizen. I waited until I was 30 years old before I bought my first gun. I was afraid firearms might be too dangerous (thanks to rampant propaganda) and that they might be stolen by a dangerous criminal.

    ~G. Fink
     
  11. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    6,513
    Location:
    Winter Haven, FL
    Do you wear the seatbelt in your car because you are "afraid" or because you prudently want to be prepared and protect yourself as much as possible should you ever become involved in an automobile accident?

    In addition the hunting/collecting/fun/plinking/competition/2nd Amendment reasons for gun ownership, I own and carry a gun not because I am "afraid" but because I wish to be prepared should it ever become necessary to defend myself or my family from a criminal attack.

    The very same reason a police officer carries a gun, so he can defend himself in the event he is attacked. Which of us is more likely to be attacked by a criminal, a police officer wearing a uniform, carrying a radio, baton, flashlight, pepper spray, stun gun and other items or me, alone and apparently unarmed? Yet on top of all that, a police officer still carries a gun and we would think him foolish if he didn't. So is it foolish for me to likewise want that protection?

    It has nothing to do with "an eye for an eye" or any other kind of punishment. I have no desire to shoot someone and it is not my job to chase criminals and determine their fate. Legally and morally, I can only shoot someone only if it is necessary to prevent the "immediate" death or severe bodily injury of myself or another. If I draw my weapon and the bad guy turns and runs, I let him go. He isn't a threat to me any longer.

    It is estimated that between 200,000 to 500,000 Americans use a firearm in just this manner every year. The presence of the firearm alone was enough to make the bad guy stop the attack and run away. Not shots fired, no one hurt.
     
  12. cordex

    cordex Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2002
    Messages:
    2,714
    Location:
    Indiana
    Loud Dogg,

    Q. Should a person take medicine?

    A. Do they need it?
     
  13. joab

    joab Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    4,830
    Location:
    Ocoee, Fla
    I defende you in your last thread but you are starting to sound more and more like a troll.
    And very similar to a guy named antiflagguy
     
  14. Jim March

    Jim March Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    8,732
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Ah. The classic assumption anti-gunners always make.

    What the heck do I have to be afraid of? I'm better armed than 98% of the people around me :D.

    OK, classic question: which kind of dog is more likely to bite, a Saint Bernard of 130 pounds, or a toy poodle less than 5?

    Yup. The little one. Why? Because it's scared of damned near everything. The big dog can walk up to strangers without fear, tail wagging, knowing that if the stranger turns out to be a turd they can just kick their ass :cool:.

    We as intelligent human beings get to CHOOSE which one to be. We get to decide whether or not to fear the world around us, criminals in particular, or to be intelligently and reasonably armed just in case we meet a turd on two legs...or four.

    Ever known people who don't stop for others who break down on the freeway or whatever, because they could be robbers, rapists or worse?

    I stop all the time. I've lost count of the number of people I've bailed out of trouble. Several dozen over the years...the wildest: just as I pulled over and walked up to this dude wrenching on his truck, he got his fuel line disconnected from his carb so he could clean the fuel filter, except that the gas hit the hot engine and burst into flames. Lucky for him I was driving an old VW bug, and as those tend to "flambe" once in a while, I had a fire extinguisher and knew where it was. I got to it and put out the fire before it could do damage...we managed to get that truck running again and I tailed him until he got to town.

    Why do I stop?

    Because I don't have to be afraid of whoever I meet, even in remote areas.

    So the remaining question is:

    "Why do you choose to be a toy poodle?"
     
  15. 4570Rick

    4570Rick Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    1,188
    Location:
    South of Left Angeles in Casa De Santa Ana, Caulee
    The poll is conceived poorly. That said, I think that antis tend to be people of less than stellar charactor and pro gun types tend to be of strong charactor.
     
  16. Tom Servo

    Tom Servo Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Messages:
    1,314
    Location:
    The hilly SE
    No. I think fear is the worst reason to acquire a lethal instrument, just as it's the wrong reason to learn martial arts.

    I think the most afraid I've ever been was when I was robbed at gunpoint while armed. I was taking a store deposit to the bank, and the guy came up behind me from between two parked cars. He stuck the barrel into my kidney, less than two inches above the butt of my gun. I'm sure if he'd known I was armed, he would have killed me for it.

    Strangely enough, I was able to hand the bag over to him with a steady hand and inform him that a) it wasn't my money and b) insurance would cover it anyway. He seemed satisfied with this, and took off. For a few seconds, though, it was obvious that my life was in the hands of a random crackhead, and I had absolutely no tactical options.

    For the next few days, I caught myself jumping at shadows, and my hand seemed to hover over my sidearm constantly, so since one of my co-workers also carried, I decided to put it away for awhile until I could get myself together. The idea that I might over-react to something innocuous and take a human life without cause...that's what scared me.

    That said, I know too many people who don't like guns one bit and carry them because they're afraid. These folks may or may not spend just enough time at the range to be able to handle a gun competently, but they make me nervous. As for me, I enjoy shooting, and the fact that something I love also offers protection...well, that's just serendipity.
     
  17. WhoKnowsWho

    WhoKnowsWho Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,432
    Location:
    Maricopa, AZ
    Can't vote, I have to answer "It depends"...

    And as others have said, the gun is just in case, just like car insurance, life insurance, health insurance... dang, that's a lot of insurance we need in life!
     
  18. mnrivrat

    mnrivrat Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    4,612
    Location:
    MN
    Hi Loud Dog !

    I would guess that fear does enter into the equation for some. It realy isn't that simple however because typically there is a host of reasons to both own and to carry a gun. Fear of being harmed is certainly part of the reason for at least some.
    To expect the police to protect you and your family from crime is not realistic. They can't be everywhere all the time. They are pretty good at solving crimes but have only limited effect for prevention.

    Then there is the shooting sports which give gun owns as much pleasure as bowlers and golfers and whatever turns someones crank for entertainment.

    For me , part of the decision to be armed remains the same as it did for Thomas Jefferson, and James Adams, and the others who drafted our constitution with the forsight to include the 2nd amendment. It is about personal FREEDOM !!!

    A freedom that is all to often in jepordy by criminals as well as governments. After all - they had just won theirs from the British and realized that all governments can be corrupted over time to a point where individuals loose their freedoms. They didn't want that to happen to this country. They wanted the power to remain with the people . They also wanted the people (individuals) to be able to defend those freedoms from all who would jepordize them .
     
  19. Beav

    Beav Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    562
    Location:
    TX
    No not afraid
     
  20. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2002
    Messages:
    19,285
    Location:
    THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL
    Jim March stated it more eloquently than I can.

    If I'm armed well enough to defend myself, what do I have to fear?
     
  21. Croyance

    Croyance Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Messages:
    1,160
    As a foolish youth, I put myself in many situations I was not trained to handle. By luck I have come out unscathed. Fear does not come into my ownership of guns. Only the fear of making a mistake and having another person get hurt. That fear makes me double and triple check things.
    A question phrased that way (for the poll) can allow the questioner to interpet the answer anyway they want.
    If the majority say yes, then gun owners are bloodthirsty and indiscrimate in the taking of life.
    If no, then we have bad judgement and stereotype. We shoot based on how "scary" somebody looks and we are easily threatened by others.
    I am not accusing you of this, but want to point out problems with phrasing.
     
  22. rayra

    rayra member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2003
    Messages:
    654
    Location:
    L.A., **********
    dingdingdingding
     
  23. telewinz

    telewinz Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,305
    Location:
    Ohio
    No hard feelings but...

    Those are the key words. Most people have no idea what these "animals" are like and their behavior can and is a day-to-day thing. Working in a prison I know that educating and counseling them has no usefull effect. If it bothers you then we won't execute them (justice) but settle on keeping them locked-up for the rest of their useful lives (expensive). They are in fact vermin and human failures, it happens.
     
  24. griz

    griz Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Messages:
    2,371
    Location:
    Eastern Virginia
    Are you trying to connect the killing of a lady with fear? I do not understand the question.
     
  25. jamz

    jamz Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2003
    Messages:
    1,772
    Location:
    Seacoast NH
    Re: Fear

    When people say "Fear" regarding guns, they generally mean tinfoil hat type paranoid of the governement, cowering in the corner, afraid of every creak in the house, afraid of every stranger type fear.

    I will state for the record, that I do fear. Not the way described above though.

    I fear house fires, which is why I have smoke detectors.
    I fear being in a car crash, which is why I wear a seatbelt and drive defensively.

    Pretty reasonable so far, yes? Pretty much what the average person fears.

    I fear being placed in a situation in which someone is gonna kill me. I won't be placed there voluntarily, that situation has to come to me. That's why it's important to me to have a tool that might help in that situation.

    So what's the difference between being afraid of being killed in a house fire vs. being killed by a robber? :) And taking that to tools, why is a fire extinguisher "common sense", and a gun not? :)

    -James
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page