AG Holder fires back

[usmarine0352_2005]

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Looks like Holder, the ATF and the President aren't backing down.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...s-allegations-in-scathing-letter-to-congress/

Holder Challenges 'Fast and Furious' Allegations in Scathing Letter to Congress

Published October 07, 2011

| FoxNews.com


Attorney General Eric Holder, in his most forceful comments to date about the gunrunning probe known as "Fast and Furious," defended himself Friday in a letter to Congress and accused his Republican critics of making "irresponsible and inflammatory" claims.

I wonder how this will end. I'd say most likely with nothing happening to Holder or the president.

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[Gottahaveone]

It would be nice if the result of his "scathing" letter was a thoroughly PO'd congress who would proceed to tear him a new one. The sad reality is that there will be exactly zero repercussions to Holder or his bosses.

 

[hso]

Stay on topic and the thread can stay open.

 

[Cosmoline]

This is an excellent sign. The man is losing his cool and lashing out. I'm willing to bet he's "resigned" in the near future.

 

[Cryogaijin]

I am hoping for a resignation. I think that a declaration of innocence followed by resignation thereafter is the best we can hope for.

Honestly I hope our next AG merely follows the existent laws of the land rather than trying to push an agenda.

 

[TexasBill]

Honestly I hope our next AG merely follows the existent laws of the land rather than trying to push an agenda.

It would be interesting to have an AG who did that; it's been a while.

I read Holder's entire letter and, to a point, I have to agree with Darrel Issa's spokesman who said:

"If Attorney General Holder had said these things five months ago when Congress asked him about 'Operation Fast and Furious,' it might have been more believable. At this point, however, it's hard to take at face value a defense that is factually questionable, entirely self-serving, and a still incomplete account of what senior Justice Department officials knew about gun walking."

My disagreement is that I am not sure that even if Holder had said this five months ago, that I would have believed him.

From Holder's letter: "Those who serve in the ranks of law enforcement are out Nation's heroes and deserve our Nation's thanks, not the disrespect that is being heaped on them by those who seek political advantage"

Brian Terry deserved our Nation's thanks. What he didn't deserve was to get killed with a gun that wound up in criminal hands courtesy of the BATFE. The people who put together "Fast & Furious" do not deserve our respect; "Fast & Furious" wasn't law enforcement: it was law breaking to achieve exactly the political advantage Holder criticizes.

If Holder really was isolated from from knowing about Fast & Furious, he should be fired for incompetence; for failing to know what was going on in the department he is supposed to be running.

 

[hso]

As the head of the Justice Department, Mr. Holder is ultimately responsible for the programs within the DOJ and the way in which the employees of the department conduct those programs. Both success and failures. The larger the impact of such programs or their conduct the more the leadership of the department has responsibility for assuring the success of the program.

I've worked with government departments and agencies for nearly 30 years. The more important or vulnerable the program, the higher up the organization chart knowledge and responsibility for the program reaches. Considering the importance of Gunrunner and Fast and Furious and the vulnerability they brought to the BATFE and DOJ there is no surprise that many find it impossible to accept that the appointed head of the DOJ was not briefed on the programs. Whether he was briefed on the failure to maintain any control over the firearms moving to Mexico is an open question. Considering the risk and liability associated with loosing control of the weapons it is unthinkable that Mr. Holder and his immediate staff would not have been concerned about that possibility and that they would have put in place a series of In-Process Reviews to track the conduct of the program. This is standard practice in other agencies and departments and it is unlikely that it isn't used in the DOJ. Either failing to do so or failing to conduct them properly or failing to accept responsibility for either is proof of unacceptable overconfidence, irresponsible negligence, or simple coverup.

 

[beatledog7]

Holder has not been trustworthy as AG from the start, but then, did we ever really think he would be?

I suspect he'll do here what politicians tend to do: commit unlawful act, get caught, deny, face proof, say you didn't know, call for an investigation, face more proof, claim a frame-up, face still more proof, make excuses, see one's support dwindle, profess innocence, get told behind the scenes to take your fall and do it alone, hold a press conference, admit guilt, show due amount of remorse, resign, be elected mayor in your hometown, write a book, and make a fortune on the talk show and lecture trail.

This will continue until we prosecute, convict, and sentence to a long prison term a few more of these, um, gentlepersons.

 

[scaatylobo]

Holder cannot take the bal and leave as that would imply that obama was in the know as to the whole mess.

And then obama would be badly tainted for the 2012 election.

So I see Holder not backing down or leaving.

 

[loadedround]

Mr. Moderator:
I have read your comments and I must say that I agree with you 100% 'Nuff said.

 

[Mike1234567]

I take notice of the extreme shame and remorse some Japanese Government Officials and Corporate Leaders express over FAR less damning issues. I can only imagine how the Japanese would react to something like this. Frankly, our behavior embarrasses the heck out of me.

We can only hope that at least some of the truth surfaces and at least some of those responsible are held accountable.

 

[4v50 Gary]

The harder he defends the ATF and DoJ, the less credibility he'll have. He's only setting himself up for the fall and hopefully takes the man child with him.

 

[JFrame]

Basically, a cornered rat will lash out at its antagonists.


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[Bobson]

- Deleted -

Going to start a new thread, don't want to hijack this one.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I am hoping for a resignation.

Resignation, my foot! He should be prosecuted.

 

[Neverwinter]

I take notice of the extreme shame and remorse some Japanese Government Officials and Corporate Leaders express over FAR less damning issues. I can only imagine how the Japanese would react to something like this. Frankly, our behavior embarrasses the heck out of me.

I don't think many here would be willing to accept the sociocultural changes which would be required to make that behavior common in the US.

The harder he defends the ATF and DoJ, the less credibility he'll have. He's only setting himself up for the fall and hopefully takes the man child with him.

F&F has come up in conversation with a coworker that I normally talk guns with, and I have to agree with his assessment: "People want this to get to Obama, regardless of his actual involvement."

 

[Bobson]

"People want this to get to Obama, regardless of his actual involvement."

I agree that he shouldn't take the heat for his if he didn't have an actual part in it; but he appointed Holder, so he needs to accept some responsibility for it.

As far as Holder knowing about it, I say it's irrelevant in determining his guilt. It was his job to know. Having not known isn't an excuse - it just changes things so instead of him looking like a criminal scumbag, he looks like an incompetent moron. He needs to be fired either way. Clearly, he isn't the man for the job.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

F&F has come up in conversation with a coworker that I normally talk guns with, and I have to agree with his assessment: "People want this to get to Obama, regardless of his actual involvement."

What people want is irrelevant in this case -- this wan't just a bungle, it was a serious crime. And one that can't be swept under the rug -- a border patrolman was killed.

 

[Sky]

The checker game was over when Brian got killed regardless of the player's long term purpose of the game. Now the much bigger game of chess is being played and hopefully there will be a checkmate sometime before the 2012 election...

May the truth come out and those responsible be judged accordingly.

 

[Neverwinter]

What people want is irrelevant in this case -- this wan't just a bungle, it was a serious crime. And one that can't be swept under the rug -- a border patrolman was killed.

The goals of achieving justice for the dead and taking down a president are not one and the same. They can happen without each other. I hope that people come to that realization eventually.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The goals of achieving justice for the dead and taking down a president are not one and the same. They can happen without each other. I hope that people come to that realization eventually.

If Holder or the President had prior knowledge of this crime, justice demands their removal, at a minimum.

If Holder didn't have knowledge of it, he was derelict in his duty and failed to properly supervise the Department of Justice.

In any case, they should vigorously prosecute those responsible, and the guilty parties should draw the maximum sentence.

 

[jerkface11]

"People want this to get to Obama, regardless of his actual involvement."

If Obama didn't know about this he's incompetent. The fact that he ISN'T DOING ANYTHING about it doesn't speak for his innocence though.

 

[ShawnC]

I don't care much for the man, but probably the president's responsibility is in his judgement in putting Eric Holder in charge. The worst that will happen to Holder is he is fully convicted and subsequently pardoned. The more likely scenario is he resigns or is let go and makes a statement absolving the president of any responsibility.

 

[Ky Larry]

The people involved in this mess are polititians. They have no morals. They have no shame. They would sell their own mothers to a whore house if it would keep them on the public payroll. You can be sure the only way the truth will come out is when they are on the stand, under oath, and they can hear the prison doors closing behind them. I doubt if Congress has the intestinal fortitude to actually go after the people involved. Glass houses, you know.

 

[788Ham]

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