doc2rn
Member
I hear he has to go before the Senate in the next couple of weeks.
AG Holder fires back
- Thread starter usmarine0352_2005
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In his testimony, Holder also advocates for new gun-control laws that he says would have halted, or at least prevented, Operation Fast and Furious. Holder echoes California Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s comments from last week, when she argued that stricter gun laws would have stopped law enforcement agents from facilitating the sale of guns to Mexican drug cartels.
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/07/h...-politics-call-for-gun-control/#ixzz1d7TJecBi
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/07/h...-politics-call-for-gun-control/#ixzz1d7TJecBi
highlander 5
Member
Let me get this straight,Feinstein and Holder wants a law to re enforce an already exiting law that prohibits straw man sales that the BATFE ordered to be made to a prohibited person that shouldn't have happened because the sale was illegal in the first place.
Feinstein and Holder either are on drugs or need to be put on drugs. Holder needs to go,if he uses the kind of logic from the above scenrario,we're all gonna end up in jail on some goofy Fed charges.
Feinstein and Holder either are on drugs or need to be put on drugs. Holder needs to go,if he uses the kind of logic from the above scenrario,we're all gonna end up in jail on some goofy Fed charges.
JFrame
Member
Now, Holder is saying, "Never again"...Isn't this sort of like an admission of wrong-doing?
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9QS6L101&show_article=1
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http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9QS6L101&show_article=1
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Think he means with his newly thought "under the radar" proposals that are coming. See prior post.
A month ago, the AP also disclosed that several hundred weapons wound up in the hands of arms traffickers in a second Bush-era gun-walking probe beginning in 2006. It was called Operation Wide Receiver and was run out of the ATF's office in Tucson, Ariz.
Sometimes you just want to dig a hole and wear hearing protection for the barbs of Political B.S. ( Bovine Stuff ) is flying hot and heavy with this matter since day one.
JFrame
Member
Thanks for the condescension -- it's an excellent debate strategy.
IMHO, comparisons between WR and F&F -- other than the most rudimentary facts -- are not founded. WR was a much smaller scale operation, more geographically limited, and evidently with the intent of actually carrying out its stated mission -- of uncovering gun-running operations.
The magnitude of F&F was so huge and geographically dispersed, that there was clearly no intention from the get-go of tracking the arms. The Obama administration had a narrative, from its own Justice Department, that 90 percent of all weapons used in Mexican gang violence came from the United States. By putting the concept of WR on steroids, they could flood the pipeline to Mexico with U.S. weaponry, validating DOJ's position, and allowing them the pretext to impose more stringent gun control laws.
It is my supposition that this is the "under the radar" gun control work that the Obama administration promised to the Brady Bunch.
As with the rule of unintended consequences, the Obama Administration did not envision this scheme spiralling so far out of control.
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usmarine0352_2005
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...der-to-blame-congress-for-not-supporting-atf/
Well, sure those mistakes aren't that serious.....unless your the agent that lost his life.
Also, why would Congress want to support you after the collossal mess you made?
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...der-to-blame-congress-for-not-supporting-atf/
Well, sure those mistakes aren't that serious.....unless your the agent that lost his life.
Also, why would Congress want to support you after the collossal mess you made?
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JFrame
Member
It's sort of the same tortured logic that people like Holder and Pelosi are making, that BATFE HAD to run a cockamamie operation like F&F because of the "obscenely easy access to guns in this country."
It really takes the mind (using the term loosely) of a statist to come up with arguments like that.
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Deanimator
Member
Want to "disrupt the dangerous flow of firearms along our Southwest border"?
Start with disbanding the BATFE and prosecuting Eric Holder for conspiracy to violate ITAR.
Shadow 7D
Member
I liked the part where Feinstien (who isn't crooked, and doesn't funnel government/DOD contracts to her hubby....)
brought up the *90% (this time 70%) number...
with NO explanation, so, um
maybe he thinks he might have political cover?
brought up the *90% (this time 70%) number...
with NO explanation, so, um
maybe he thinks he might have political cover?
alsaqr
Member
Nothing is going to happen to Holder or any other political apointee in the Justice Dep't. The congressional investigation of F&F is a dog and pony show. A career bureaucrat or two may be chastised but thats all.
he certainly didn't look good on camera. Not in a 'sweating it' way, but he came across as unsympathetic to a dead border patrol agent.
And it seems to me if our gun laws were so 'lax' why did ATF have to BREAK THEM ALL to get those guns to Mexico?
And it seems to me if our gun laws were so 'lax' why did ATF have to BREAK THEM ALL to get those guns to Mexico?
I'm not holding my breath. The majority of the media elites are on the government's side and definitely anti gun to boot. It takes media attention to drive these things. I heard one liberal on Fox News in fact say that this was a non story. Others on the panel that were conservative tried to argue the point that it was big. But her statement reflected the position of the other networks or at least what they hope for.
The President and his AG definitely knew about this deal and I would bet that someone down the line will have to fall on his sword for them unless they succeed in making it go away.
Never underestimate the GOP's ability to cave.
The President and his AG definitely knew about this deal and I would bet that someone down the line will have to fall on his sword for them unless they succeed in making it go away.
Never underestimate the GOP's ability to cave.
we are not amused
Member
Unfortunately you are correct.
The News Media is low balling the story. They as a class, hate guns. For that matter, they don't much like the Republicans either.
It is very difficult to do much politically, if the News Media is against it.
JFrame
Member
True dat -- the leftstream media loves Democrats (and statists in general); ADORES Obama and his cabal; and despises the 2A, which they view as an antiquated and regressive "right" that promotes individualism, and stands in the way of total Big Government dominance and the advancement of their left wing "progressive" ideals.
The one positive note is that the American public seems to be abandoning the LSM in droves -- evidenced by the sagging ratings for the Big 3 news outlets, the plummeting sales of rags like the Gray Whore and WaPo, the purchase of Newsweek for one dollar, and the corresponding surge in popularity of alternative news sources like Fox News, talk radio, Drudge, and other Internet pipelines.
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Carl N. Brown
Member
The main thrust of Project Gunrunner was to prevent straw purchasers from getting onto the streets--or across the border--with the guns and the existing laws (if enforced) were sufficient to do that. It was ATF's (or Newell's) ambition to bring down cartel heads with gun tracing (an undoable ambition) that diverted them from stopping guns purchased by suspicious characters from getting onto the hands of traffickers (a doable objective).
Wikipedia: "In October 2010, a spokesperson from the Violence Policy Center (VPC) declared that significant progress in limiting foreign assault weapon sales to straw purchasers could be made by enforcing existing gun control laws...."
http://www.observador.com.mx/noticias.cfm?n=49179
Georgina Olson, "Obama solapa el tráfico de armas por temor a votantes", 24 Oct 2010, Observador (Spanish).
You ever get the impression that law makers can not do research and see what laws are on the books already.
Maybe it is easier to get a donation if you sponsor a new law or bill; even though there are laws that already cover the objective of any new bill.
Money is coming from somewhere •Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi has assets of $25 million, liabilities of $13 million and a net worth of $13 million (numbers off a bit due to rounding). Source Google
Carl N. Brown
Member
Allegedly the NRA has shot down proposed anti-gun bills by pointing out that the proposal was less restrictive than existing law. I suspect that many politicians as well as many non-gun-owning citizens have no idea what the existing gun laws are.
publius
Member
Glad the NRA could help, if that is true.
Neverwinter
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Not gonna happen. This administration through Holder has been in the habit of coddling people who actively behave in ways which are detrimental to the goals of the organization. Do you remember the story on the FBI training which promoted falsehoods regarding the Muslim community with lessons like "mainstream Muslims are violent and radical"?
The person heading it has been promoted sideways, like those ATF officials. Holder talked about the damage that the training did, but didn't actually do anything about it.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/11/holder-fbi-islamophobia/#more-62650
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publius
Member
Justice Dept admits original response to Grassley was false
More details from the AP:
A three day "Fast and Furious" email exchange over how to handle these allegations, and in all of it nobody thought to actually ask the agents making the allegations, much less inform Eric Holder of what was going on.
More details from the AP:
A three day "Fast and Furious" email exchange over how to handle these allegations, and in all of it nobody thought to actually ask the agents making the allegations, much less inform Eric Holder of what was going on.
farscott
Member
The national apathy on this issue is as much a concern to me as the guns that were "walked" and used against American law enforcement officers and other citizens. If the American people do not get angry about this, it will be swept under the rug and lost in coverage about football, the Kardashians, et al.
It is scary when CBS is leading the charge on reporting on this issue. Where are the Washington Post and the NYT? Where is the nightly discussion on all of the news channels? Why are Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh not discussing this every day? Why are the American people not outraged by this?
A federal agency violated American law, leading to the murder of a federal LEO, and nothing is changing because American voters do not know or care. That is unacceptable and cannot be allowed to continue.
It is scary when CBS is leading the charge on reporting on this issue. Where are the Washington Post and the NYT? Where is the nightly discussion on all of the news channels? Why are Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh not discussing this every day? Why are the American people not outraged by this?
A federal agency violated American law, leading to the murder of a federal LEO, and nothing is changing because American voters do not know or care. That is unacceptable and cannot be allowed to continue.
alsaqr
Member
Fast and Furious was a bottom driven operation. It originated in the Phoenix office of the BATFE with the approval of the local federal prosecutor. The career bureaucrats in the Phoenix office sold this operation to their bosses up the food chain.
A few congressmen are making loud noises about Fast and Furious: Just enough to keep it in the news. Ever wonder why more congressmen are not going after Holder? Answer: It would not bode well when the tables get turned and the other party goes after their AG.
It's all well and good that congress criticize this operation for the death of a US agent on US soil. Why are they not talking about the hundreds of Mexicans who have been killed with Fast and Furious guns?
In the end:
1. Holder will not resign.
2. Holder will not be fired or prosecuted.
3. No senior political apointee will be held accountable for F&F. That's just the way it works in our government.
Everyone on this board needs to read this congressional staff report on Fast and Furious.
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM192_atf_report.html
A few congressmen are making loud noises about Fast and Furious: Just enough to keep it in the news. Ever wonder why more congressmen are not going after Holder? Answer: It would not bode well when the tables get turned and the other party goes after their AG.
It's all well and good that congress criticize this operation for the death of a US agent on US soil. Why are they not talking about the hundreds of Mexicans who have been killed with Fast and Furious guns?
In the end:
1. Holder will not resign.
2. Holder will not be fired or prosecuted.
3. No senior political apointee will be held accountable for F&F. That's just the way it works in our government.
Everyone on this board needs to read this congressional staff report on Fast and Furious.
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM192_atf_report.html
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