AG Holder held in Criminal Contempt

[TurtlePhish]

Just saw on TV (NBC), Justice Dept. sent a letter saying that Eric Holder would not be prosecuted. :banghead:

 

[X-Rap]

The US does not share a border with a third world nation.

You can call Mexico whatever you wish but I have seen enough of it to forbid any of my family to set foot across that border, my son says Uncle Sugar won't let him go there. They seem to like to bury folks in mass graves and do a little beheading to keep the peasants in line. If you think cops in the US are a PITA get hooked up in the legal system down there, your family will go broke getting you back.
If this and much more isn't worth securing against then all you have to do is head south to paradise.

 

[Capybara]

Love that episode!

I want Holder to also be censured and admonished. Without pay!

 

[Furncliff]

Thanks for the link to Jack Moss' blog. I read a bunch of his stuff.
Unfortunately it's difficult if not impossible to reasonably assume that Mr. Moss could or would be impartial on a subject like this. Committed members of any base look for and find the truth they are looking for. Any writer searching out the truth and writing what he finds knows the truth can't fall on one side of the line 100% of the time. For Mr. Moss the truth falls on one side of the line 100% of the time.

 

[leadcounsel]

This will last well into the next POTUS term, and the next administration will crush Holder.

This is evidence that will prove that some people are above the law if he's not prosecuted. You better believe any of us would have been prosecuted.

Heck a guy from Washington just went to jail for a year for selling a gun to a Canadian. Why not those involved in authorizing F&F?

Read this article from Ann Coulter in which she outlines that the powers that be don't want to release the documents because F&F was a huge anti gun play by the administration to turn the nation against guns. Very sinister if true

http://news.investors.com/article/616669/201206291741/fast-furious-eric-holder-obama-corruption.htm

 

[we are not amused]

The main source is David Voth, who now claims the only guns "walked" in the whole Operation F&F were six Draco AK pistols "walked" by whistleblower Dodson in an undercover operation.

The Fortune article is credible if you have not been following the issue the past year and a half and have only been skimming headlines.

Sorry, I read the article and found it about as credible as the Easter Bunny.

Still, it is a good idea to find out how the gun banners and BATFE apologist are trying to spin the story. Interesting that they are blaming the Arizona U.S. Attorney, who happens to work for Eric Holder's Justice Dept.

For the information of the reporter, who seems to be overly credulous of David Voth. It seems to be an effort by Voth to sugarcoat his role. As for the "helplessness" of the BATFE to do anything, the BATFE has never been shy about abusing it's authority before. I find it incredible that anyone would believe it was as helpless to stop those guns as Voth and the reporter claim.

 

[we are not amused]

The US does not share a border with a third world nation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newly_industrialized_country

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country

Sorry! I am not politically correct!

I was unaware that the Transi's (TranNationalSocialist) had a new term for third world hell holes. Whether Mexico is called a third world country, or a "NIC", it is still a lawless hell hole unless you are one of the fabulously wealthy or a tourist in one of the very carefully protected tourist zones.

 

[we are not amused]

This will last well into the next POTUS term, and the next administration will crush Holder.

This is evidence that will prove that some people are above the law if he's not prosecuted. You better believe any of us would have been prosecuted.

Heck a guy from Washington just went to jail for a year for selling a gun to a Canadian. Why not those involved in authorizing F&F?

Read this article from Ann Coulter in which she outlines that the powers that be don't want to release the documents because F&F was a huge anti gun play by the administration to turn the nation against guns. Very sinister if true

http://news.investors.com/article/616669/201206291741/fast-furious-eric-holder-obama-corruption.htm

Yes, so much for the idiot reporter Katherine Eban's false assertions that the penalties for "straw purchases" were hard to prove.

Ann Coulter's column is very interesting, I agree with it. I once got accused of being a "tin foil hat wearer" by a Moderator on this site, for suggesting the same, that was before the E-mails came out suggesting the same.

I wear the accusation with pride!

 

[we are not amused]

By the way, Carl N Brown, I just reread my post, and realized, it sounded critical of you. My apologies, I realize that the way I wrote it made it sound as if you supported the story, when your post clearly indicated you did not. careless writing on my part, I had just read the article, and was in too big a hurry to say bad things about it to write coherently.

 

[Neverwinter]

Ann Coulter's column is very interesting, I agree with it. I once got accused of being a "tin foil hat wearer" by a Moderator on this site, for suggesting the same, that was before the E-mails came out suggesting the same.

I wear the accusation with pride!

My applause goes out to the moderator willing to do so.

With so many threads on this same subject, I can't remember in which one I had referenced historical postings which came to conclusions which were in complete absence of existing evidence. Exhibit A has kindly been presented. And, curiously enough, is willing to wear the accusation of tin foil hattery as a warning to all readers.

 

[we are not amused]

My applause goes out to the moderator willing to do so.

With so many threads on this same subject, I can't remember in which one I had referenced historical postings which came to conclusions which were in complete absence of existing evidence. Exhibit A has kindly been presented. And, curiously enough, is willing to wear the accusation of tin foil hattery as a warning to all readers.

Considering your established pattern of argument, and the fact that e-mails supporting my position have been released, (the existing evidence you deny) I would be worried if you agreed with me.

You have always strongly attacked Republicans and Conservatives, and I would be disappointed if you changed your rant now.

I remember on one of the early "Fast and Furious" threads, you dismissed the entire story because "Faux News" had carried it. How embarrassing!

Have a nice, if clueless, day.

 

[Neverwinter]

Considering your established pattern of argument, and the fact that e-mails supporting my position have been released, (the existing evidence you deny) I would be worried if you agreed with me.

You mean these emails?

Two of Holder's emails and one by Deputy Attorney General James Cole were among documents the Justice Department showed Tuesday to Republican and Democratic staffers of the House Oversight and Government Affairs Committee in an effort to ward off a criminal contempt vote against the attorney general.

The full contents of the emails were described to The Associated Press by two people who have seen them. Both people spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak about them publicly.

For the past year and a half, some Republicans have promoted the idea that Holder and other top-level officials at the Justice Department knew federal agents in Operation Fast and Furious had engaged in a risky tactic known as "gun-walking."

Two of Holder's emails and one from Cole appear to show that they hadn't known about gun-walking but were determined to find out whether the allegations were true.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...hQLokA?docId=44ff0778c01e45709c1df986a2be0c4e

I remember on one of the early "Fast and Furious" threads, you dismissed the entire story because "Faux News" had carried it. How embarrassing!

Issa kept his focus on the Justice Department, clarifying that he has no evidence the White House was involved in any Fast and Furious cover-up.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...tisan-contempt-vote-against-holder-this-week/

Now we can see if the dancing is to the beat of the drum of Fox News.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

We are not amused: I understood what you meant. No offense seen or taken.

Any who. Heads of Operation Fast and Furious who were removed from their jobs in Aug 2011 when the "Gunwalker" scandal broke:
* Dennis Burke, US Attorney for Phoenix AZ under OF&F, retired.
* Kenneth Melson, ATF director, transferred to DoJ.
* David Voth, supervisor Phoenix, transferred to HQ office job.
* Bill Newell, SAC Phoenix, xfr to HQ.
* William McMahon, ATF deputy director of operations, xfr to HQ.
Now some of them are coming out as stalking horse spokespersons for the operation, the Bureau and the Administration.
David Voth has become the stalking horse for the print media.
Bill Newell is the stalking horse for the TV news (I guess he comes across better on audio/video).


These peoples' idea of "cutting off the head of the snake"--allowing guns to walk to lead Phoenix ATF/USAO to the gun trafficking king pins, and taking down the king pin and ending it all in one fell swoop--is the stuff fantasies are made of.

Literally, there are dozens of rival cartel heads on the Mexican side of the border waving fistfuls of dollars, and hundreds if not thousands of little snakes on this side willing to take the risk of smuggling guns for their share of those dollars. It is almost like the radical concept of "leaderless resistence"--only in this case it is leaderless black marketeering. There is no king pin snake and cutting his head off will not kill the den of snakes. The lure of the black market creates the den of snakes, little ones as well as big.

Allegedly in the 1920s Al Capone would "vacation" in nearby Johnson City--"Little Chicago"-- while his buyers made connections with local moonshiners/bootleggers for grain alcohol to have shipped to Chicago to be flavored with juniper as bathtub gin. When Capone was sent to prison, the moonshers/bootleggers continued as long as there was national prohibition, local option dry laws, or just a preference for "white lightning" over the legal stuff. Cutting off the head of that snake (Capone) did not stop the den of snakes from continuing.

 

[we are not amused]

You mean these emails?



http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...hQLokA?docId=44ff0778c01e45709c1df986a2be0c4e



http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...tisan-contempt-vote-against-holder-this-week/

Now we can see if the dancing is to the beat of the drum of Fox News.

No, these documents.http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57338546-10391695/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/

See! Fox News is not the only irresponsible News Service telling lies about your hero Eric Holder and your favorite government agency, the BATFE.

Seriously, there is another thread currently active about what the purpose of "Fast and Furious" was. I suggest you read it. You may find I am not alone in my suspicions.

 

[danez71]

Im not amused by the derogatory/inflammatory undertones in your posts towards people and countries.

Mexico, like the USA and many other countries in the world, have area that are very modern as well as very rural. Corruption is in all of them too.

Calling Mexico a "hell hole" is about as valid as saying "guns are evil".


Tactics like that devalues whatever valid point your trying to make.

 

[x_wrench]

all this really amounts to is a slap across the fingers with a wooden ruler. there will never be anything serious done. to do so, would mean that the big O made a mistake. and that would be political suicide. it is way better to look good, than do what is correct and right for the good of the country.

 

[we are not amused]

Im not amused by the derogatory/inflammatory undertones in your posts towards people and countries.

Mexico, like the USA and many other countries in the world, have area that are very modern as well as very rural. Corruption is in all of them too.

Calling Mexico a "hell hole" is about as valid as saying "guns are evil".


Tactics like that devalues whatever valid point your trying to make.

I Am Not Amused that you are not amused by my opinion of the hellhole known as Mexico! Okay, okay! I really am amused.

What Was I Thinking! Of course Mexico is a shining example of an enlightened modern State! And if We try REALLY, REALLY HARD, we can be just like them!
We can have the same level of corruption as they do, where Rule of Law is determined by your bank account, where the police and military routinely sell arms and equipment to armed criminal gangs who engage in kidnapping for money, and engage in bloody gang wars amongst themselves for control of international drug trade.
We can have the same government that encourages it Citizens to violate the sovereignty of it's neighbors as a deliberate policy, because it is too corrupt and poor to take care of it's own Citizens.

My, my, I am sure glad you brought me to my senses about how great Mexico is! All those beheadings and shootings, are just figments of some reporters imagination, and I am sure glad you think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Seems to me that his state bar should disbar him.

Can't be a lawyer without it.

Doubt you can be Attorney General without a law license.

The US AG does not actually practice law. No law license required as far as I can discern from the 1789 and 1870 creation laws relative to the position and the office. The original position called for a person to be knowledgeable about the law to hold the position which now apparently means having a law degree. That AG is really nothing more than a legal advisor and judicial system manager. He probably should have a license, but I don't see where it is required.

 

[danez71]

My, my, I am sure glad you brought me to my senses about how great Mexico is! All those beheadings and shootings, are just figments of some reporters imagination, and I am sure glad you think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I said no such thing..... not even close or hinted at.

You alluding to such only discredits yourself.

 

[45bthompson]

Just a few brief thoughts.... 1 Holding a law degree and passing the bar should definitely be a prerequisite to being the ATTORNEY general. 2 Mexico is a hell hole. 3 Ann Coulter should never be taken seriously unless the topic is venereal disease. 4 Holder should swing for his blatant disrespect to the American populace. 5 My opinions also do not deserve to be taken seriously!

 

[atomd]

On the legal end of this....this is not about the operation anymore (although I still think someone should answer for the operation itself). This is about how they lied to Congress. The Justice Department gave false documents to congress to try and cover this up. That part is not up for debate. They lied. The end. Did Holder know about it? If you say no, you're odds aren't looking good at this point.

A lot of times it's not the "crime" that gets you....it's the cover up. Watergate, Clinton, etc etc...heck...even Roger Clemens had a hard time.

 

[CAVHOOAH]

Some should entertain the idea of studying up before posting garbage....lol.

Lets see what I can pull out of the hat today. Be sure to take the time to read all three pages....otherwise, your future commenting will be regarded by me as "hogwash".

Heres the latest "T-III" info that may be interesting to those who care...to care.
(PS, T-III is lingo for wiretap)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ca2_1341068707


Facts...not assumptions.

Please take the time to actually read the documents and NOT post some biased BS from a news station of third partyassumptions of what it says. If you cant read and understand it..... you dont need to argue in this arena. Parroting of others veiws is just that.....parroting. <Deleted>


My name is CAV, and I approve this message

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ca2_1341068707




Also, another issue detailed in the papers... questions if the paperwork was pencil whipped. Meaning was it placed on a desk of high ranking officials, where they skimmed at best... read the title at worst.... then threw a signature to it and moved on. Also...as stated in the papers above.... the evidence of guns being allowed to walk was totally against SOP and the required restrictions placed on ATF. These measures where contained in the wire tap request, where it was obviously "overlooked" somehow and allowed to continue. The gun running that is.

Any fresh out of school lawyer would have caught this, even me...with no formal law training. Yet some of the supposed "best governmet officials" didnt see the blatant and repeated infractions of this very specific S.O.P placed in the ATF ? I dont buy it..... and neither should anyone with a brain in thier skulls.

 

[Jeff F]

Wouldn't he have to prosecute himself? I don't see that happening.

 

[CAVHOOAH]

Hence Issa's prior approval for Civil also along with pre approval to put together a group to take care of the investigation issue. Hes actually thought this out quite well. All this info is out there. Please do not rely on a forum, or the news for that matter to get info. I suggest we all search and well be much better off. As always, dont take my word for it, see it for yourself.

I hate to post links to any news firm, but in the effort of expediancy....heres Fox. (I will wash my mouth out now).

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...cans-eye-civil-court-case-to-extract-furious/



DO NOT LOOSE FAITH ! DO NOT ASSUME WE ARE DEFEATED ! They would love nothing more for the American people to take that pill, swallow it and move on. We can hold them accountable, do not fall for the hype. There is actually a GREAT chance of victory here, by-pass the propaganda and get to the facts.

 

[Neverwinter]

Heres the latest "T-III" info that may be interesting to those who care...to care.
(PS, T-III is lingo for wiretap)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ca2_1341068707

Also, another issue detailed in the papers... questions if the paperwork was pencil whipped. Meaning was it placed on a desk of high ranking officials, where they skimmed at best... read the title at worst.... then threw a signature to it and moved on. Also...as stated in the papers above.... the evidence of guns being allowed to walk was totally against SOP and the required restrictions placed on ATF. These measures where contained in the wire tap request, where it was obviously "overlooked" somehow and allowed to continue. The gun running that is.

Thank you for posting that primary source which corroborates the Associated Press quote that I posted earlier indicating the lack of knowledge by Holder and Cole of gun walking from their emails.

As explained in the document, the processing of the wiretaps requires the Assistant Attorney General of the Criminal Division agency of the DoJ to approve the wiretaps after reviewing what the previous operational details which did not achieve the investigative information necessary. In practice, this meant that a top deputy of Assistant Attorney General of the Criminal Division Lanny Breuer would have looked at reports of gun walking. Gun walking which as the document states, was reiterated by Cole in March 2011 as being against departmental policy.

This fits into the timeline that the Associated Press article describes based on the reported emails. Five days after the CBS News report accusing gun walking came out, Holder sent a request to the Inspector General to begin an investigation, which is a rational response to discovering that individuals in the department were acting against departmental policy.

"I hope the AG understands that we did not allow guns to walk," an official at the ATF's Washington headquarters said on March 10 in an email that Holder's aides forwarded to the attorney general.

In a response, Holder wrote, "Do they really, really know" that there was no gun-walking?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...hQLokA?docId=44ff0778c01e45709c1df986a2be0c4e