Agree with Chuck Hawks's rifle recommendations?

[DefiantDad]

In my quest for a .308, I am now at a crossroads. Most likely I will get a bolt-action, but part of me is still thinking about an autoloader. Searching around, I came across this:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/rec_cf_rifles.htm

Seeing that I managed to get permission from the Wife Boss to acquire a .308 (not an easy job but I managed it haha) I am looking for this rifle to do three things: a) longer range target shooting at the range compared to my .223, b) give me the firepower to hunt feral pigs which my .223 is said to be too underpowered to reliably and humanely put down such game at distance, by some hunters, and c) provide longer range defensive firepower than my .223 in a SHTF emergency. The priorities are in order of that listing (target, hunting, then defense).

Without considering cost for the moment, do you folks agree with Chuck Hawks's assessment of these top rated rifles? (I am going for quality; I don't like to buy twice if I can "bite the bullet" and buy quality the first time around).

Autoloading and Pump Action Rifles

Browning BAR Mk. II Safari (auto)
Merkel SR1 (auto)
Remington Model 750 Woodsmaster (auto)
Remington Model 7600 Deluxe (pump)

Bolt Action Ultra-Deluxe Rifles

Cooper Arms Western Classic and Custom Classic
Dakota Model 76 Classic
Kimber Models 84M and 8400 Super America
Weatherby Mark V LazerMark and UltraMark

Bolt Action Deluxe Rifles

Browning X-Bolt Medallion and White Gold Medallion
Cooper Arms Classic series
CZ 550 American Premium Grade
Kimber Models 84M and 8400 Select Grade
Remington Model 700 Custom C Grade
Sako 85 Classic and Deluxe
Steyr Classic Mannlicher
Thompson/Center Icon
Weatherby Mark V Deluxe, EuroMark and AccuMark
Weatherby Vanguard Series 2 Deluxe
Winchester Model 70 Super Grade

I think baseline I would use the Remington 700 as the rifle series to compare against. If I can get higher quality than the Remy 700, I will do so, but I don't want to go too exotic where I end up with a rifle that few people know how to fix, or that I can't get information about to fix myself, etc. or end up paying too much just for cosmetics/expensive furniture.

 

[browningguy]

All of those he mentioned are very good guns in the bolt sections. As for auto I wouldn't even consider the Remington or the Remington pump, I haven't shot a new one in the past 3-4 years but all of the others I have shot, or seen shot, just were'nt accurate enough for me.

For a sporting rifle all of the ones he mentions will have a better fit and finish than a Remington 700. They may or may not be any more accurate but they will look better. Every Cooper, Kimber and Dakota I have seen personally were very good shooters, as well as being good looking well finished rifles.

 

[Abel]

A cheap Ruger American or a Savage Axis with a decent scope is enough rifle for what you want to do. But if you have the money, take a look at the Winchester M70 and the Browning X-Bolt.

 

[Sock Puppet]

We generally prefer semi-autos for feral hogs. A bolt gun will work, but after using a few semi-autos on them over the years, we very seldom take bolts anymore.

With the price coming down near $1,000 on the excellent FN FNAR, it would be a great choice. In fact, my brother and dad both use their's on pigs.

 

[DefiantDad]

Thanks guys. Thanks especially on the input regarding semi-auto and feral hogs. I had a hunch about needing quick follow-up (versus being good enough of a shot with the bolt for a one shot take down).

 

[Mike Sr.]

If you are lucky enuff to find one consider a rem 7600P; I have several 700 vssf's in 308 and have had a number of Sendero's in 300 win mag. The bolt actions are fun and accurate.

I have a 7600P in 308....con-trar..to what some might think: I've shot nearly 30 to 40 thousand rifle rounds in llife time (moving closer to 70 than I'd liketo admit) and when I shot my VSSF (thousand dollar rifle) next to my 600 dollar 7600P out to 200 yards, the 3 shot group was almost indistinguishable...!!!

My first rifle I ever bought, two months after my discharge in May of 1969 was a Remington GameMaster in 308. That Fall during Antelope Season: one shot 235 step-off's right where I put the cross hairs: a bit low and behind the right ear; during Deer Hunting Season of the same year: right where the crosshairs met: behind the Right shoulder 250 yrds....

Now when I go Deer hunting with my son my go-2 rifle: 7600P backed up by my VSSF.

7600P: pump action, 16.5" barrel as seen here.......

 

[hjh45acp]

Look into a m1a also. a m1a scout would fill your need's

 

[dprice3844444]

http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtRifles/ColtLE90116S.aspx

 

[dprice3844444]

7600p is way lighter and cheaper

 

[MCMXI]

If you plan on a bolt action and expect to be carrying the rifle much I would recommend a Kimber 84M Montana in .308 Win. I bought an 8400 WSM Montana and I'm very, very impressed with it. Basically, any bolt action that has a three-position safety that blocks the firing pin and allows you to lock the bolt closed, a large claw extractor, CRF and a non spring-loaded plunger ejector is better than the alternatives. A Winchester M70 would work too.

http://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles/model-84m/montana

For a semi-auto I'd recommend a LaRue lightweight model in 7.62x51mm but they're kind of expensive.

 

[DefiantDad]

Looks like the FN FNAR is the same as the Browning BAR?

 

[DefiantDad]

I'm just concerned a rifle lighter than 8 or 9 lbs might have more recoil affecting hunting accuracy? Not that worried about toting it in the field all day.

 

[Sock Puppet]

Looks like the FN FNAR is the same as the Browning BAR?

No. The FNAR is based off of the BAR, and is similar, but not the same.

 

[TimboKhan]

Not to throw another log on the fire but something that fits what you want to a tee, and that I can personally recommend, is the Ruger Scout.

I bought one specifically for a hog hunt that I went on in April, and I just couldn't be more pleased with it. I honestly can't imagine a single hunting scenario that I would be in under anything approaching normal conditions where it wouldn't be darn near perfect, it's easier to carry, it shoulders fast, and I really like the fact that I have multiple sighting options available. I will agree that semi-autos are probably better for multiple hogs, but I don't feel like I am giving anything up with the bolt-action.

I honestly can't recommend it enough, and if I could only pick one rifle to hunt with for the rest of my days, this would be the one. I am honestly not so sure it wouldn't be my SHTF or "Survival" rifle, after thinking that through a little bit....

 

[Kachok]

In general I agree with Chuck, but I would never consider the Rem 700 some kind of standard, they have gone to $#!^ since selling out to CCM back in 2007, and they are only getting worse, so I would strike anything they make off the list, I for one am DONE wasting money on them. The Winchester 70, Browning A-bolt, or Savage 110 would make a much better flagship rifle without a doubt.
Semi Autos are great just don't expect bolt gun accuracy because they will never get you there, though 1-1.5 moa can be reached with a quality firearm and match ammo.
As to the best bolt gun I like my Tikka T3 and Savage 110s, both have given me one hole at 100yd accuracy with handloads and sub MOA with factory fodder, though I have been hearing such good things about the Browning X Bolt, TC Venture, and Weatherby Vanguard Series II that I have been thinking about adding one to the collection, gatta have some variety right

 

[DefiantDad]

Is stainless steel BBL that important / big difference? How easily does a BBL rust actually? I take care of my stuff, so I don't think I will neglect cleaning and lubing. It just seems harder to find some models in stainless.

 

[Sock Puppet]

I have exactly one stainless rifle. If I like it and it happens to be stainless, I'll buy it. I don't look specifically for it. Shotguns, which see a ton of wet-weather action are almost always blue, so if you take care of your stuff you'll be fine.

 

[DefiantDad]

Thanks guys; I will examine all the models you listed later in more detail. On Ruger, I thought they were not taking any more orders and were maxed at capacity, although I suppose it all boils down to what my LGSs can get.

 

[Sock Puppet]

Once you decide whether you want a bolt or SA, you'll probably get more specific advice.

 

[MCMXI]

Semi Autos are great just don't expect bolt gun accuracy because they will never get you there, though 1-1.5 moa can be reached with a quality firearm and match ammo.

There are plenty of AR308 models easily capable of sub MOA out past 600 yards .... Les Baer, LaRue and KAC for example. There are some DPMS owners shooting well under MOA for a lot less money.

As for Remington, I have three 700s but I won't be buying any more, not because of any quality issues but simply because I like the features available on Kimber and Winchester rifles. As for Savage ... no thanks ... one is more than enough.

 

[DefiantDad]

Once you decide whether you want a bolt or SA, you'll probably get more specific advice.

You absolutely hit the nail. I really am undecided. I feel like I WANT an auto, for follow up, but part of me thinks I SHOULD have a bolt because that is what most hunters and snipers use for accuracy.

 

[Kachok]

There are plenty of AR308 models easily capable of sub MOA out past 600 yards .... Les Baer, LaRue and KAC for example. There are some DPMS owners shooting well under MOA for a lot less money.

As for Remington, I have three 700s but I won't be buying any more, not because of any quality issues but simply because I like the features available on Kimber and Winchester rifles. As for Savage ... no thanks ... one is more than enough.

Savage has OK ergonomics and lets face it barrel nuts do nothing for their appearance, but I have owned half a dozen of them and all are fantastic shooters.
The last three Remingtons were all duds, horrible QC on their part, I want nothing else to do with them, one could be a fluke, that could happen to anyone, but three in a row is a disturbing trend, and I won't be giving them another chance. Years ago I would have told you without a doubt that the 700 was one of the finest rifles ever made at any price, but they took a bad turn for the worse with CCM.
I know they are getting better and better with autos, but the fact remains that bolt actions have consistently been more accurate by a pretty healthy margin. When they make one that will shoot 1/12th MOA like my Tikka did yesterday I'll take two

 

[MCMXI]

DefiantDad,
What's your budget ... including optics as well?

 

[MCMXI]

Savage has OK ergonomics and lets face it barrel nuts do nothing for their appearance, but I have owned half a dozen of them and all are fantastic shooters.

Savage doesn't have a monopoly on accuracy ... Savage is just another choice, nothing more, nothing less. I don't have a problem with the barrel nut, just the POS AccuStock, poor machining of the top of the receiver, overall "clunky" build quality of the receiver and inordinately heavy bolt lift.

 

[taliv]

i would not buy anything on that list.

if you are on a budget, you can make a stock rem700 SPS or savage work.
what those mfgs call "quality" or "deluxe" or "custom" isn't worth an extra dime for anyone who actually wants to SHOOT the rifle.

a semi-auto rifle can definitely be accurate at long range (look at the GAP-10, Larue OBR, or KAC SR25) but at long ranges, most people tend to shoot them very poorly for various reasons. most people will be much more effective with a custom bolt gun past 800 yrds.

if i wanted something that was going to maybe be 50% hog / 50% long range, and I didn't have a bunch of other special purpose rifles, and I was on a budget, I would look for a used GAP10 upper (or complete gun) and build a cheap lower with the stock/trigger i wanted (i think GAP uses POF receivers)

edit: and to be honest, a factory DPMS 308 will typically shoot about as well as most factory bolt guns, though you can pull the trigger faster, but the velocity will be lower compared to bolts