Aim at head or chest?

[possum]

chest !!! a round hard target like a skull can deflect bullets if not straight on.

This is another consideration, one that I failed to address in my above post. The skull is/ was designed to protect the brain, and it does a great job of doing so. If you want to have a positive effect on a "head shot" especially with a handgun bullet, you need to put it in a "hole" and or a "soft/flat" part of the head. A good way too look at it, and as it has been explained in multiple courses that I have been too, the "zoro mask". Covers the areas that would be ideal to put a bullet if you want to have the best possible probability of a headshot being effective to stop the letha threat from continuing to pose a lethal threat.

 

[Ole Coot]

If you have practiced situational awareness you either won't be in this situation or know your surroundings and what direction to move while you draw your weapon and have practiced point shooting so you can pick a shirt button to concentrate on while you pull the trigger fast enough to stop the threat. I have practiced point shooting for 50+yrs and highly recommend it for personal defense.

 

[ChCx2744]

If the head is stationary and close in proximity (In your case, 10 feet is fairly close enough) then sure. That being the case in your scenario, seldom will your target's head be stationary during a violent encounter. So unless your are almost certain you can confidently land that headshot, don't go for it.

A couple good tips one of my instructors once told me:
-When aiming for the body, aim between the nipples horizontally and between the lower neck and upper belly. Now take that sight and aim even smaller, in the middle. Ole Coot put it nicely "go for a shirt button"
-When aiming for the head from the front, aim between the bridge of the nose and upper lip. When aiming for the head from the side, aim for the area between the temple and ear canal. Again, take that sight and aim even smaller.

Aim small, miss small.

 

[Strykervet]

Imagine a bowling pin that starts with the top right between the eyes or just above, the skinny part over the mouth and chin, and then widening out again to cover the center of the sternum. The bottom of the bowling pin is a little below the rib cage.

This setup is what we used in the army. Any round of sufficient energy in that area is likely to be a kill shot. The nose is the best, that is the ragdoll shot, the skinny part covers the throat, and the wide part covers the heart. The bottom rests on the liver.

Now imagine an "aura" around the bowling pin. This represents another area that is less effective than the bowling pin that includes lungs.

The idea is that in the dead center lies the spinal column. Anything in or close to that is deadly or painful enough to incapacitate.

This is why everyone screams shoot COM. It is the biggest target (bottom of bowling pin) that has the highest probablility of incapacitation.

"One in the chest one in the head" and the Mozambique drill compound on the effectiveness by making up for poor shots or weak shots by hitting the bowling pin area more than once. This is highly effective, but also controversial. If it goes to court, the lawyer against you will surely use Hollywood's portrayal of this technique against you, ie, you are an "assassin".

Carry a large enough round and you won't need as many shots. From a guy that worked in a morgue, he said that he saw 90% of 9mm victims with multiple shots. .45ACP and .40 typically had one shot, sometimes two or more. Upon opening them up, it was determined that the .45 not only made a bigger wound track thus letting more blood, it also had more momentum and tended to make that wound track all the way to the back...

 

[Strykervet]

If the head is stationary and close in proximity (In your case, 10 feet is fairly close enough) then sure. That being the case in your scenario, seldom will your target's head be stationary during a violent encounter. So unless your are almost certain you can confidently land that headshot, don't go for it.

A couple good tips one of my instructors once told me:
-When aiming for the body, aim between the nipples horizontally and between the lower neck and upper belly. Now take that sight and aim even smaller, in the middle. Ole Coot put it nicely "go for a shirt button"
-When aiming for the head from the front, aim between the bridge of the nose and upper lip. When aiming for the head from the side, aim for the area between the temple and ear canal. Again, take that sight and aim even smaller.

Aim small, miss small.

Behind the ear works better from the side. Tip of nose, bridge of nose from front. To do a ragdoll shot, you have to disrupt the part of the brain that controls involuntary processes. That runs from the rear/bottom of the brain into the upper neck sort of.

Not that a temple shot wouldn't be bad, but I've seen a guy take one there and still walk. He's blind for life, but he made it.

 

[Mike1234567]

I'd try not to take a side or behind the ear shot because LEOs and DAs might wonder why the "attacker" was shot from the side or behind...

 

[possum]

I'd try not to take a side or behind the ear shot because LEOs and DAs might wonder why the "attacker" was shot from the side or behind...

Massad Ayoob has defended this on several occasions in court. If you can find some of his case studies on the matter, he explains the how and why behind such things and that it is defensible.

 

[ChCx2744]

Behind the ear works better from the side.

I beg to differ. The area of the skull behind the ear is a bit too curvy and thick; in contrast, the area between the ear hole and temple is a bit flatter and thinner. If I'm aiming for something, I'd like for my bullet to penetrate and enter where it counts. I've read and heard too many post shooting stories of failed head shots due to the bullet(s) being deflected away at an obscure angle or just riding the curve of the skull under the skin, but failed penetration.

 

[zxcvbob]

Shoot the biggest target that presents itself.

 

[Waywatcher]

Aim for the middle, it has the biggest margin of error, plus all the vitals are there. ("Center of Mass")

 

[GCBurner]

If I thought someone was advancing to hurt or kill me, to the point where I felt the need to draw my gun, I wouldn't be yelling anything like "Freeze!" or "Hands up!", I'd just draw and fire, center of the body. If one or two shots there didn't have any effect, I'd keep shooting until the threat stopped, or I was out of ammunition.

 

[Retcop]

I would automatically go for the center of the chest with a double tap. thats the way I was trained as LEO. Had qualifications every 13 weeks for 32yrs. Be hard for me to react any other way.

 

[Koz]

If he's coming at you blast him as quick as possible

 

[barnetmill]

Assume close range:
Some of the people here have it right and many of the others here do not. First thing many times this sort of thing occurs under less than ideal lighting when you cannot see your sights clearly. Also when under stress you will be and should be focusing on your opponent and not the front sight. You want to move off the X or line of force at a 45 Degree angle towards your opponent and reset his OODA loop You should be practicing how to point your gun at your opponent while moving and hit him/her. You should be overlooking the slide (revolvers are not preferred, not enough capacity). Start shooting at center of mass. If you gun allows it as do glocks use trigger reset to fire a zipper of bullet hits on the midline of the torso until the opponent is no longer a threat to you. You can let this zipper travel upward with the recoil towards the head. Object is to cause rapid and massive trauma of the goblin and survive.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Center mass. Bigger target is easier to hit.

 

[Averageman]

Head Shot -vs- Center Mass.
I would submit to you that the correct answer is center of visible Mass. You can disect and divide anatomy all you care to. In the end you shoot at the center of what you see the most of.
rinse and repeat as necassary.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Some informal anatomy lessons might be useful - see http://www.madsci.org/~lynn/VH/tour.html .

A look at http://www.tacticalanatomy.com/ might not be amiss either.

Most people spend their range time shooting at two dimensional targets, when on the street the targets are three dimensional. Getting the path of bullets to intersect with important physical structures located inside three dimensional targets requires a conceptual ability to locate those structures inside the target and the skillset to deliver bullets to them.

It might happen by accident, or it might happen through hitting what is deliberately targeted. You choose which...

lpl

 

[ChCx2744]

Well the whole fun of this topic is the scenario presented by OP:

I guess this isn't exactly worded per say, but from what he said, you encounter a single foe that has presented an immediate threat to your safety and life. That being said, you apparently had enough time to draw and yell "freeze." If your foe is 10 feet (Less than 4 yards) away, he asked if you would take a head shot or a COM body shot. Now given the aforementioned circumstances, 4 yards away is pretty much sneezing distance. Given the BG is also a creature with legs and a flexible spine that allows them to move around, then yes, there is a possibility that you may miss a headshot if attempted, as opposed to a COM shot.

This SD ethic of whether or not you would shoot the head or body shouldn't dissect whether or not you would "feel" right shooting someone in the head or body, it should be a matter of "if you are even willing to use enough for that could possibly end up taking another human being's life." Headshot or bodyshot, does shooting at either target discredit the fact that the act of shooting someone in self defense is any less "deadly?" If you are prepared to use deadly force to defend yourself, it is appropriate to assume (with good judgement and prudent, law-abiding character) that if you draw your weapon, point it at someone and yell "freeze," then you have made the decision that you are willing to kill this person if they do not comply!

So, again, the decision of whether you shoot a deadly assailant in the head or body should not be judged by ethics, but more from a tactical or opportunist standpoint. In that situation, the only reason you should question a headshot is if you honestly believe bodyshots will not work. Should you practice headshots? Most definitely. If a bigger, un-armored target is presented, should you go for it before the smaller, more prone-to-motion head? MOST DEFINITELY. However, don't be too quick to discredit headshots, they have their place in self-defense shooting knowledge and practices.

BTW Thanks for the link, Lee.

 

[Busyhands94]

if i ever had to shoot someone in self defense (God forbid) i would dump all but one of my rounds center of mass to stop the attacker. but that's just me. i really hope i am never in that position, but if it's a matter of me or a loved one surviving then i feel that would be appropriate.

 

[P5 Guy]

Aim At

The biggest target showing.

 

[jrdale84]

There are a few schools of thought, and I've seen a few of them in action, and below is my best thinking.

Given the situation mentioned originally - your best best is always center of visible mass. 10' coming at you means center of mass/chest since if you cant see that - your tactical situation is very different. Your next most important thing is shooting, and because you never shoot without ensuring where your muzzle is pointed (I'm a combat vet and I follow this) you are already aiming therefor unload.

A deputy friend of mine always says when they ask him why he fired 10 rounds his answer will always be "I fired until it stopped firing". Someone mentioned the morgue ballistics thing and sure ... one or two .45's might do the trick so bank that 8-14 of them will do the trick. At 10' your last few rounds might be a few inches from the guy.

Massive unloading however doesn't work so well in real life - either "A" there is more than one assailant or "B" those extra rounds go wide and hit someone or something they are not supposed to. Unless you face these situations often you will be shaking violently ... plan to miss, so aim. I'll hit training in a few.

10' is very very very close, if you let someone get that close in a dangerous situation you deserve to be in the conundrum displayed by 3 pages of posts. If you are in a public place and that's how they got that close your better bet is don't draw, disengage or engage with your fists - keeping your weapon side as far from them as possible (hopefully you have a holster that requires a specific direction of pull). Remember you are in public and scream and holler for help. 10 high school freshmen can beat 1 tough guy. The last thing you should want to do is fire in a crowded space.

At the end of the day the best thing you can do IS train for this. The best (never seen it done though) suggestion for getting the shakes out is training where you have to shoot fast and if you miss you get the cattle prod. Never seen it done but I do think I'd be worried about the prod. LEO train the double tap and that because if you empty on the first guy the second guy has you for free.

My favorite drill starts with the coach talking to the shooter - talking about whatever and then they say "shoot" at which point the shooter draws and fires the two COM rounds. (Center Of Mass if you didn't know COM). While doing this they are backing up and to the side - the longer you can make 10' the better! Every now and then the coach says "fail" which is the code for "the first two rounds didnt stop them" and generally we do the head shot. This is based on the logic that when I started to fire the target was [in this case] 10' away. In the time I fired 2 shots he has closed to within striking distance with his knife/fists ect - I don't expect to miss point blank.

Now lets evaluate two more issues that were brought up. If he has a gun the above drill is still your best option. First, he [or she] is advancing which means they probably don't have the most stable aim*. Second you will be moving reducing you the target - and you should be moving towards cover if at all possible.

Change 2 is what if they are wearing a vest? Well, your initial chest shots are still a good idea. Why you ask? Well for starters you generally won't know they are vested until you shoot them there first and they don't go down - though sometimes they go down anyways (which is reason 1 to shoot COM first no matter what), they just get back up but you now had time to get distance, get cover, aim better and fire successive shots. Second, so you see the vest, whats it rated? Is it real? Only one good way to find out. There are plenty of airsoft look a like body armor sets out there ... stops 6mm plastic ... doesn't stop 9mm copper jacketed lead. You're average thug is aware of this but hopes you don't take the time to find out. Even if Joe Thug is wearing some nice Milsurp plates - has he ever had them x-rayed? Were they thrown out by the military for having cracks? Has he been shot or hit there before ("heyo homes, chek dis thingy out, go ahead, shoot at it you gonna see it works"). You're third reason even if you see the vest is shock value. Your assailant may not expect you to be armed, or expect you will pull the trigger (bad Hollywood). Taking one to the chest plate will defiantly disorient momentarily everyone up to Meth-head. Might be fractions of a second, but that's how firefights are. Same goes for just light and sound - you ever fire a handgun in a small room unexpectedly - it will disorient EVERYONE.

*So what if the guy does have practice moving and shooting, is wearing armor and commonly goes by the moniker "Cop" .... drop your gun or he'll drop you .

No one said it thus far and it seems very worth mentioning. Studies have shown that in most shootings - especially by LEOs - the target was hit in the shoulder, hand & arm. Why? You hit what you look at - and most people confronted with an attack are staring at the 'threat' aka the gun/knife/chainsaw. This is why muscle memory and therefor practice are important - if you instinctively always shot center of mass ... when startled and surprised ... you will.

I've never heard the pelvis thing (in either military or LEO years) but it does sound good. Food for thought though I'll tell you about a friend of mine. While in Iraq he took a 7.62x54R in the pelvis, knocked him down but he said he didn't even know he was hit, let alone feel pain for something like 30 seconds to a minute (at which point he said it was very painful). The pelvis didn't fracture and the round bounced up and out his stomach. Ghastly wound, but he survived and is happy the sniper had bad aim (he was peeing at the time off a rooftop). So the caution to the pelvis shot may be lack of "pain"? It does however clearly knock down the person in practice.

In case you are wondering the story ends with the USAF dropping a 2,000lb bomb. Proof that in any gunfight your best bet is out gun your opponent - be it with an Infantry platoon, radio and the Air Force or a good working firearm, the skills to use it and practice.

I was reading about an incident where a cop was shot in the face (along with something like 14? times) a while back. Initially he was shot in the face and the assailant began to walk away thinking he was dead - its like that in video games right - he shot the assailant who didn't go down either and both ended up fighting it out. He lived because he had the will to live through multiple gunshots even to the face. Apparently his assailant didn't have as strong a will. (I think there was something on it on THR a while back... looking for it. Another example is on youtube/court tv of a traffic stop).

Moral of that story, SSG Bellavia's (read the book House to House), and countless others is if you are in that situation you will have to be ready to defend yourself. If you trained for it and have the will to live your chances are better no matter where you shoot the person.

(sorry it was long... didnt start out to be)

 

[Rail Driver]

I've always been taught, both in the military and in training courses I've taken in the past, to aim for center mass as that has the greatest chance of a hit (notice I didn't say an incapacitating hit, or a one shot stop, but simply a hit).

 

[Bobson]

Suppose someone is about to kill/hurt you, you pulled out a handgun and yell "freeze", your finger on trigger ready to fire, should you aim at his head or chest if he is about 10 feet away?

I know many people will disagree with what I'm about to write, and some may not even believe it's true, but it is. I'm a criminal justice student, and plan to work as an LEO as soon as I can. One of my CJ course instructors was a Lieutenant who was also a member of his department's SWAT team. He spent most of his time in class telling us about his job, and giving us real-world situations he encountered, and we openly discussed how we would have handled it, and why. I won't give his name, but he works for a medium sized department in western Washington state.

At one point during the semester, we were on the topic of carrying a gun for SD. He strongly advised us that if we ever draw our weapon on anyone who is already holding or in arms reach of any type of firearm (even if it's pointed in a non-threatening direction, like at the ground), to shoot as soon as we can, and never waste time telling them not to move ("Freeze!" "Don't Move!" Etc), because more often than not, they can have that weapon raised, aimed, and fired, before you can react enough to pull your trigger. He said he's seen more than a few examples of it in his career so far. EG, if you're threatened to the point that you need to draw your weapon just for the hope of surviving a deadly attack, don't give your attacker an opportunity to use his. Telling him to stop is giving him that opportunity.

This is all based on the OODA Loop, which should be standard teaching for LE across the nation, but IDK if it is or not. Basically, it's Observe, Orient, Decide, Act. These are the four steps necessary in every single decision we make, and OODA is the reason you (usually) can't react quickly enough to simply pull a trigger on someone who has already made the decision to raise their gun and shoot you. The OODA loop should be kept in mind during any tactical/SD training you have, and it's equally beneficial regardless of the type of combat you're engaged in.

I'm not telling you to shoot an attacker the first chance you get, I'm just telling you what I was taught by a cop I came to know pretty well and trust even more. Do with it what you will.

By the way, I'd shoot center mass. Even if it doesn't stop the attack, it will give you ample opportunity for another shot, should you need it.

Sorry for the Wall of Text.

 

[Bobson]

Here's an example of an actual OODA loop you might experience in a typical SD situation:

You have your CCW in an IWB when you walk into a mall for some shopping with friends. Just inside the mall, there's a madman with a rifle. OODA begins -

You observe the Active Shooter (you see him).
You orient yourself to the situation (you begin mentally dealing w/ situation, looking for cover, panicking, heart-rate increases, adrenalin releases, palms begin to sweat).
You decide on a course of action (plan to either defend yourself with your weapon where you stand, or you plan to run for cover).
You act (you set your plan into motion by either drawing your weapon or running for cover).

That's one cycle, and the loop repeats itself immediately. Your mind won't allow you to transition from one act to another act, each step needs to take place. Also, consider that anything unexpected after the first step (observe) resets your OODA cycle. For example, if your friend had taken a bullet halfway through the first cycle. You've just gained a new disadvantage.

This is how OODA is used as effectively as possible in a SD situation. Understanding how the loop works, and understanding that your attacker has his own OODA cycle going on at all times, just as you have yours. Do whatever you can to reset his cycle before he completes the loop. Examples of this might be throwing dirt into the eyes of the other fighter in a street fight. A flashbang going off in a tactical maneuver. Pretty much anything you can use to disorient or distract your opponent gives you a huge advantage, because he has to react to it. The person with the ability to be proactive almost always comes out on top. That's the ticket. Use the OODA loop to keep your opponent reacting, and if the table turns, flip it back the first chance you get.

 

[CornCod]

The first option should be center-of-mass, but if this fails I might transition to the head depending on circumstances. Col. Cooper's "Mozambique Drill" of two to the chest and one to the head is, in the main correct, but I would not be too dogmatic about merely two to the chest and one to the head. I might shoot four to the chest and one to the head. There are simply too many variables in a gunfight for rules that are too hard and fast.