Air travel with firearms experiences

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grimjaw

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I apologize if this has been covered before, but I thought some of you might find it interesting.

While on vacation last week, I traveled via air with four of my firearms (three rifles and one pistol). I read up on the laws pertaining to air travel with firearms, and contacted the airline and airports ahead of time. Had different interactions in each of the airports.

The law says you must report directly to the ticket counter for your airline and declare that you are checking firearms. They must be in a lockable, hard-sided case, and the case must be locked when you show up at the airport. Ammunition and firearms can be in the same case, so long as the firearms are not loaded.

Cleveland, American Airlines. Required to unlock and open case and place a signed (by me) card inside. Escorted by AA agent to the TSA baggage check counter. The TSA handler wiped a small cotton cloth on the handle and combination locks of the case, and appeared to place that in some machine. After a readout of some type, he wrapped a label around the carry handle, marked the label with a red magic marker, and I was sent on my way. I was not asked to open the case so he could inspect the inside of the case.

St Louis, American Airlines. Same treatment as Cleveland except at the TSA baggage check area. The TSA representative asked to have my key. When he discovered the combination lock, he came back and asked for that. We were right next to two other passengers, and I asked him to let me say the combination into his ear. He looked at the other two passengers and told me they couldn't get back to the case, and I told him I didn't care if they couldn't. He frowned and leaned forward hear the combinations. He removed the protective socks I had on two of the rifles and did not replace them. In transit, the stock of the Winchester Trapper model was scuffed noticeably.

Little Rock, American Airlines. Same treatment as St Louis. The TSA representative did not remove the socks from the rifles, but simply inspected the case. He also had me unlock both sets of locks myself, since the inspection area was much closer to the entrance of the TSA zone.

Dallas/Fort Worth, Continental. The signature card looked different, but said the same thing I believe. Bad on me for not reading it more closely. The fill-in blanks wanted signed and printed name, date, flight numbers, and one other blank that was administrative in nature. The airline agent took the case to TSA herself, and told me that they might call me for my key. All the other agents walked me to the TSA counter. TSA did not call me for the key.

The case I used for transport (Winchester brand, metal sided, two keyed locks and two combination locks, egg crate foam inserts) was scuffed and scraped during transport but not dented. The locks do not appear to have been tampered with.

I expected to have the firearms checked at every oppportunity, but it wasn't so. At all times they relied on my word that the guns were unloaded. At no time did they check for themselves. I had .22LR and .17HMR ammunition in the cases in factory packaging and this was noted by two of the airports, but not objected to.

The following is unrelated but I thought it was interesting. Everyone that I struck up conversations with wanted to know what was in the case. "What's in the case?" "Is that a guitar/keyboard/trombone?" "Is that camera equipment?" When I got pulled over in Cleveland today by a LEO when I got back (did I mention I'm ready to move?) the first thing he asked was "is that a rifle back there?"

DFW is the worst airport I've flown into or out of. I advise avoiding it whenever possible if you use American Airlines. Continental took care of me when I finally got switched over to them.

jmm
 
I was under the impression that federal law required that you be the only one to open and close the case, and that under no circumstances were they to mark the case so that it could be identified as transporting firearms.
 
Delta (well, ComAir) from Oklahoma City, on Wednesday:

Showed up two hours early (man, I hate airline travel). One of their people checked my student and I in at the kiosk. When I told him I had a firearm to declare, he directed me to the counter. When I got there, we realized he'd put the checked luggage under my student's name, instead of mine, so we spent about ten minutes dealing with that issue. After that, I presented the pistol, demonstrated it was unloaded, and put it in the hard case (along with my Spyderco Endura), along with the declaration card. The gate agent told me I was specifically not allowed to have the ammo in the pistol case (note that it was in it's original box, even said "Speer Gold Dot" on the front). Not feeling like arguing, I put the box in my bag and zipped it up. She then told me that she'd need a key to the case for the TSA guys if it wasn't a "TSA lock." I told her I couldn't do that, as the law didn't permit it. She didn't seem terribly clear on the topic either way, so she just had me wait at the gate until TSA called back and said it had cleared. My student and I went down to the screening gate, took our shoes off as ordered, walked along a wonderfully dirty floor in our socks (too bad taking a picture to send to my Congressman would have been a Federal offense...), and trundled off to the gate.

When I opened my bag in the motel, half my ammo was out of the box and in a pile in my luggage. Taking it out of the hard case makes so much sense....

(Believe it or not, folks, the airline flight was the best part of this trip.)
 
DelayedReaction,

I remember those stipulations, although vaguely.

I don't think my case was ever marked as containing firearms, but I think it was fairly obvious to anyone who saw the case. It *could* have contained jellybeans, I suppose. Even if it wasn't marked, it was obvious to anyone at the counter. I had to open it in plain view of all the other travelers, and announce it to the agent.

I don't remember the regulation about who could and couldn't open the case, but I'll try to find the full list again.

Flyboy, if I remember correctly, although federal law and TSA allow firearms and ammunition to be transported in the same case, the individual airlines might have the right to restrict you from doing that. I checked American Airlines website after reading up elsewhere because of that.

jmm

NRA's page on air travel with firearms: http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/FederalGunLaws.aspx?ID=70

TSA's page on the same: http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?content=090005198005feca

Since I am not qualified for CCW yet, I found it easier (and cheaper) to purchase most of my ammunition at the destination.

jmm
 
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Mine

Long story short:
Not all that long after 9/11, tried to fly interstate with a G26. Having done so before, did EVERYTHING RIGHT. Transit cop did everything he could to stop me: background checks, inventing nonexistant requirements, delays, etc. Finally said "we are the law of the airport, and you are not taking that with you." Facing missing the flight (friend already driving long way to pick me up) vs. leaving it locked in car, did latter.

Have it all on tape if anyone is interested. Wanted to sue, lawyers & NRA-ILA wouldn't touch it; seemed to think I musta done something wrong (I did everything right) or too small a fish to care about.
 
Hi All-

Based on these narratives, I would print EVERYTHING associated with transporting firearms from the TSA and FAA web sites before setting foot into the airport. Scuffing a gun safely tucked inside a case...dang, I would be pretty angry about that.

~ Blue Jays ~
 
My latest experience is from early May. Had no trouble either in Sacto or Gulfport, MS. In Sacto I declared the firearm and they had me walk it over to TSA. I waited for a short time till someone decided that they didn't need to look inside the case. In GPT, it just got off in the general luggage.

I'm a little surprised by Flyboy's experience. Everything I've seen lately indicates that we are no longer allowed to carry any ammunition in luggage. I didn't even think it was a good idea to try carrying any in the gun case, and bought ammo when I got to MS.
 
I just flew AA

St. Louis. mo. to tuscon AZ and back. Not one problem. I declared the firearm in my checked bagage at Stl. Louis. Was sent to TSA checkout. The guy opened my luggage and the gun case. The Ammo was in the case in its original container the gun disassembled into two non-working parts. The part needed to put them back together was in my pocket. They inspected, closed my case and luggage, handed me back my key and said have a nice flight.
Return flight from tucscon. Placed the declaration inmy bag with the firearm case. Closed it and it was sent back to baggage. Told have a nice flight. No. Problem. If you had a problem with the AA personell contact AA. They will most likely be happy to get it corrected.
 
i wish TSA was more well-versed than the people who fly with firearms. alot of times it seems that all they know is they have to check if they are unloaded but they have no regard for the owner, who doesn't want it stolen, doesn't want to attract undue attention to his bag, and doesn't want everyone in the airplane knowing which bag to steal in the event they get the sudden urge to illegally acquire a firearm.

i think it would be great if someone got an entire contact with TSA from start to finish on camera and then had it aired on network TV. i bet they'd love a chance to question the procedures of the ill-trained TSA staff.
 
i think it would be great if someone got an entire contact with TSA from start to finish on camera and then had it aired on network TV.
Not on video (not much worth seeing), but I've got the full audio.
 
DFW is the worst airport I've flown into or out of. I advise avoiding it whenever possible if you use American Airlines. Continental took care of me when I finally got switched over to them.
Your problem was not so much DFW as AA. I used to fly AA often, and felt it was a good airline. Based on what my wife and I underwent on a recent trip via AA ... never again.

The whole sorry story would probably make at least a novelette, if not a complete novel. Just one example from the litany: on the return trip, they lost one of my wife's bags. The AA baggage service clerk at the arrival airport REFUSED to enter a claim, because they had taken wife's carry-on bag and checked it but did not give her a claim check. No claim check number, no report. Two days later we found someone at the airport where the flight change was made who had found the bag. He sent it on to the final destination, but told us we had to go to the airport to pick it up. 3 hour drive -- each way!)

Got to the airport at the time he told us to be there. No record of the bag. Clerk couldn't find us in the computer, and was downright rude to us. I finally called AA's 800 number, went through the phone tree, and ultimately spoke with a nice woman who found the bag in her computer within about 15 seconds. She then very apologetically told me that while we were driving to the airport, our bag was on a truck being delivered to our home.

This nice woman was ... get this ... a RESERVATIONS (not baggage service) agent, in Raleigh-Durham, NC. We had not flown through Raleigh-Durham, nor had the bag gone through Raleigh-Durham. So why was she able to find our bag in the system within 15 seconds, when the very folks who received it at our airport and who put it on a truck to our house had no record of it?

Fly any airline other than American. They have gone from one of the best to possibly the very worst.
 
Get me the agents name in OKC. Gino is the head of TSA screening at the OKC airport and he is WELL aware that asking for the key or combination is ILLEGAL. I can get this straightened out.

DO NOT COMPLY WITH TSA IF WHAT THEY ARE ASKING YOU TO DO IS NOT REQUIRED. You are only making it more difficult on the rest of us. The ammo CAN go into the hard case, unless the airline as a reg against it and none do that I am aware of.

(d) Ammunition. This section does not prohibit the carriage of
ammunition in checked baggage or in the same container as a firearm.
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/...ess.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/octqtr/49cfr1544.203.htm
 
Flew Continental from VA to AZ with a revolver in one bag and a 50round box of ammo in the other. Norfolk airport went very smoothly. At Phoenix, however, the check-in woman was rude and yelled at me when I told her I was locking my luggage if it went out of my sight (she claimed I had to leave it unlocked for TSA to inspect in the back, despite the TSA and Continental reg printouts I had in my hand).

Pistol made it home OK; unbeknown to me til I got home and unpacked, the box of ammo got stolen by TSA at Phoenix after it went into the back room.
 
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