AK-47 Question....

[MIL-DOT]

" Except you wouldn't call a non-automatic M16-like rifle an M16."

yeah, 'cause " M-16" was just a number made up by the military for the AR-15, but in their government-issued fully-automatic version. but, i think you can realistically refer to all of them ( armas,colts,bushy's,etc) as "AR-15's"
.and i agree that if it looks like an AK,and has the kalashnikov action, you can realistically call it an AK

 

[Coronach]

I'm borderline pedantic, and this is how I handle the AK-47/SAR/WASR/Yugo dilemma.

To me, an "AK-47", "AKM" or "AK-74" refers to the military, select-fire version of the rifle. This is akin to the US Military's designation of M16 or M4. There is a very real reason, besides pedantry, to be very specifc about this; antis and other gun-ignorant people hear "AK-47" and have visions of Chechen rebels or Al Quaeda types running around and hosing bullets in full-auto mode with real AK-47s, and carry this over to the gun control debate, equating domestic semi-auto AK-clones with machine guns. I take every opportunity possible to make the distinction between a semi-auto "assault weapon" [sic] and a real assault rifle. "I highly doubt he had an AK-47. They cost, like, $16,000 and have to be registered with the Federal government. He probably had a semi-auto rifle...what's the difference? Well, it's a pretty big one. Let me explain..."

Now, I do refer to my SAR-1 as an AK, since it is an Avtomat Kalashnikov design and action. I also call my Saiga-12 an AK, even though it could never be confused for an AK-47, since it follows the general operating principles and design of an AK. To me, this is like calling a car a Chevrolet because it is a Chevrolet, whether it is a Chevette or a Corvette. Calling a SAR-1 an AK-47 is, to me, like calling a Chevette a Corvette, because both are Chevys.

That's just me.

Mike

PS An amusing sidebar- I had a friend in high school who told all the chicks he had a 'vette. He did. It was, of course, a Chevette. As he was quick to point out, "IT'S STILL A 'VETTE!"

 

[Coronach]

Mouse set to three-round burst

 

[Coronach]

Mouse set to three-round burst

 

[clange]

Sorry I just get really irritated by people who haven't been there, don't build guns for a living but can tell ya all bout em.... and are more than willing to pass on mis-information based on what they have heard versus what they have seen

First of all the second 'word' in my post was AFAIK, so it obviously was not stated as fact. Second, thank you for the info regarding WASRs. It's interesting to hear about the actual process, and I'd rather be right than wrong next time, so getting the right info is cool by me.

QUALITY the Yugo was recomended for much much better QUALITY so tell us how many AKs have ya built? surly some at least so ya can be an authority on riveting correct? I build about 4-7 per week every make and model as well as dealer post sample "Real" AKs....... been doin it goin on 20 years now so how much experience ya got riveting an ak together?

I've built 0, and never claimed to be a builder. The yugo may be better quality individual parts, but a factory rifle is a factory rifle. My only way to explain it would be this: if my life was in jeopardy and I had an untested yugo build, and an untested SAR-1 in front of me I would grab the SAR-1 without question. I have absolutely no idea the quality of the receiver on the yugo, or barrel condition, or build quality. With the NDS receivers and a quality build, yes, the US receiver guns are not quite the sore spot they used to be, and are arguably better, but a SAR-1 is so close to the real thing I'd grab it first, as I would a saiga, arsenal inc, vepr, etc. This isn't a slight against just yugos, I'd pick any of those rifles listed over a vector or lancaster or any other untested US build (even if I built one) despite the reputation. I'm sure your work is great, but until I know for sure its not on the same level as a factory built gun (except for a wasr, maybe, although most of them reliably function).

As for the quality process for civilian romanian rifles, were SAR-1 parts handled the same way, ie rejects are used for SAR-1s? I've had 4 SARs and 4 G kits and from looking over them, the SARs actually seemed to be built better. All 4 of my demilled G kits have canted sights. None of my 3 SARs had canted sights or any other build problems. I've seen some ruff parts on WASRs, genuinely curious as to if the same selection process was true for SARs, since they seem better. Are G rifles perhaps rifles that were rejected from normal service for some reason? That would explain the canted sights on all 4 at least.

Edit: and to clarify on the US-bulit vs. factory, my most expensive AK is a bulgy AKS-74 clone. I have no problems owning a US receiver AK, but its no more of an 'AK-47' than my SAR-1, and arguably the SAR-1 is closer to the real thing anyway, which was my point. Love my 74 though, it's my favorite AK.

 

[TheDisturbed1]

According to my state legislature, an AK-47 is a rifle with "AK-47" stamped on the side of the receiver. An "AK-47 type" rifle, is one that utilizes an AK action that's also chambered to fire 7.62x39.

Sweet! so my WASR-3 isnt considered an AK-47 there?

5.56x45 AK's are designated AK-101, right? (minus the synthetics and muzzle brake for me)

 

[nalioth]

Clange, the Afghanis pick up pieces of AKs laying around after the technical got a LGB dropped on it. They take it back to their place, and using rocks and self-made tools put the pieces back together into a working AK. These AKs go out and (in the old days) killed more Russians. Today these rifles go back out and do whatever their owners ask of them.

I think you're vastly over estimating the 'quality' in an AK. They are very simple and it takes a lot of work to put together an inferior dysfunctional one.

 

[clange]

You'd think so, but I've also seen a lot of threads about f'd up builds that don't work. It doesnt take much for headspace to be off, or the mag release to be too far forward or backwards. A mm off somewhere can cause problems like with any other rifle. Like the OOW receivers I think it was, where they were slightly too long and had to be trimmed or the dust covers wouldnt stay on.

 

[HK_USP_45]

Answer: AK-47 Question....

To answer your question, we're about the only country in the world that calls it an AK-47. An AK-47 is s specific model/year of AKs, there were many mods and updates after that. A more appropriate term, and what it is known as throughout the world, is a Kalashnikov. Yes, what you have is a Kalashnikov. That encompasses every make/model/country of orgin's variant, etc of "AK" that is made.

 

[nalioth]

Another first poster zombie hunter.

Please look at the post dates.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

To be a true AK, the rifle has to be a select-fire, gas powered, rotating bolt, air cooled, magazine fed assault rifle utilizing the large long-stroke gas piston attached directly to the bolt carrier group in the style first created and popularized by Comrade Kalashnikov.

All the semi-automatic rifles using this mechanism, such as those available for purchase in some states in the American commercial market, can be technically described as semi-automatic Kalashnikov clones. But since the 'A' in 'AK' stands for 'Automatic,' I don't think it is really accurate to call any of the semi-auto rifles 'AKs,' even if I and others do so on a regular basis.

I'd say the two-lugged simple rotating bolt and the massive long stroke gas piston attached to a hefty bolt carrier are two characteristics that must remaining present and unchanged to bear associated with Kalashnikov. The trigger mechanism he apparently copied, at least in part, from the M1 Garand, so there is nothing particularly unique or special about it.

I'd say all the military select-fire rifles using this design can be considered AKs, regardless of country of origin or whether they have stamped or milled receivers, or any small changes made to furniture, sights, muzzle device, ect. And all commercial semi-automatic rifles that use this mechanism can at least be called Kalashnikovs regardless of original capacity and other little details.

 

[HorseSoldier]

To be a true AK, the rifle has to be a select-fire, gas powered, rotating bolt, air cooled, magazine fed assault rifle utilizing the large long-stroke gas piston attached directly to the bolt carrier group in the style first created and popularized by Comrade Kalashnikov.

Not really -- an "Avtomat Kalashnikova" could be any of several makes or models of weapon, and isn't really any more specific than vaguely describing its US counterpart as an AR. It encompasses a range of barrel lengths, several different calibers, etc. -- and that's just exclusively looking at Russian manufactured ones.

Without actual and proper nomenclature about all "AK" tells us is more or less what the silhouette of the weapon will look like. Kind of like an AR . . .

 

[nwilliams]

Wow it almost feels nostalgic when I look at the date I started this thread, ah the memories of my youth

Man I wish i still had the Yugo M70B1 that I was referring to when I started this thread almost two years ago. I bought it new at J&G for $425 back then and I doubt I'll ever get another one for that price again

Anyway thanks for your post HK_USP_45 and welcome to THR!