AK side folder vs underfolder.

[silentpoet]

I am looking at getting an ak. I would like to know the practical differences between an underfolder and side folder. How do they shoot? How about value? What differences are there in terms of durability of the folding mechanisms? I know alot depends on the base kit or parts. I am seriously looking at the polish underfolders if I decide to build my own.

 

[cvb]

ak

had both-both not to my liking-opted to have regular stocks.
I found with these guns aiming is much more intensive than
say AR. The best stock out there to hit with? them Chicom
Mak 90 thumbholes-lines up th rear sight nicely. bet the 2
id say sidefolder-

 

[justsurvivingincalifornia]

I remember reading in a Solider of Fortune magazine that the problem with (PRC) under-folder AK stock was durability. They tended to get bent and loose with hard usage because of their sheet metal construction. As far as side folders it depends on who made them. I did not know that Poland made a under-folder maybe they are better that china's version.

 

[Prince Yamato]

With an underfolder, you are stuck with that stock only. With many side-folders, you can replace the side-folder with a fixed stock. The side folder I have used, which I find to be both accurate and comfortable is the metal Romanian side-folder available from most dealers for ~$49.99.

http://www.copesdist.com/images/RomanianAKFolding Stock.jpg

It also features a rubber plug that prevents the stock from banging up your receiver when folded. The curve in the Romanian stock enables you to rest your cheek relatively comfortably on the stock.

Do not get one of those cheap plastic 'Galil" type that they sell from Tapco and other sources. The have a tendency to wiggle and look cheap. They are also over-priced.

The underfolder is also uncomfortable to shoot when folded because the stock folds up and surrounds the handguards. The romanian stock mentioned above, leaves easy access to the trigger, magazine release, safety, and front handguards.

 

[TheDisturbed1]

i admit, i have been obsessed with the look of the AKS-74 type side folders ... the underfolder has a "traditional" type look that can be seen in movies and whatnot..

 

[BADUNAME13]

Underfolders Suck. VERY uncomfortable.

 

[AndyC]

I prefer underfolders, but have to admit side-folders are more practical in terms of rapid stock deployment. A sidefolder is much faster, and it's impossible to deploy an underfolder stock if you have a drum-mag without first removing the drum.

 

[Kestrel]

How are the ACE side folding stocks?

 

[Husker1911]

Ace folders are simply excellent! I've already posted a photo of my Bulgy SLR-95, complete with the Ace side-folder. It's a solid, useful stock. By all means, give the Ace worthy consideration. Here's my AK again:

 

[silentpoet]

Thanks that answers my questions for a few minutes. Shortly I will have new ones.

 

[AK103K]

I'll second the "underfolders suck".

I also agree with the Romainian wire folder. They are well made, rock solid, both open and closed, the correct length, allow access to the controls while folded. I think the biggest plus is, they are inexpensive compared to most others, require no modification to the gun, and can be changed for a full stock at will.

The best side folders are the Russian AK100 series folding "full" stocks. You get a full stocked gun that folds. What could be better?

 

[JWarren]

I agree with the pro's and con's of underfolders.

However, I'll be so bold as to say that I do think that underfolders have a certain aesthetic quality to them. They are the traditional folding design on the rifle and therefore appeal to some people on that level.

I have a underfolder on my Vector that I don't find uncomfortable to shoot. Sure, it is less comfortable than a wood stock that I've had on a SAR, and it is less comfortable than the ACE that I have on a Saiga 308. But it isn't so uncomfortable as to have me not wanting to shoot it.

One thing that turns me off about underfolders is that they WILL have some play in them both folded and extended. It's just part of the design limitations. I've looked at the mechanism, and it is solid and in no danger of failing-- but it plays a bit.

If I were not concerned about the aesthetics, I'd probably opt for just getting a standard reciever rifle and putting an ACE skeleton stock on it with a folding mechanism. IIRC, the ACE folding mechanism can be configured to fold either to the left OR the right side. That gives a lot of flexibility. It's also my understanding that the ACE folding mechanism locks up VERY solid in both the folded and extended positions.

I may get a folding mechanism eventually for my Saiga 308. It would make transport a lot simpler.


John

 

[Thin Black Line]

One has to hunt through the underfolders to find one that doesn't have too
much play in it. Some of the Yugo rebuilds immediately after the ban lifted
to early last year were really bad, but some have been really tight over the
last few months.

As far as being uncomfortable to shoot, that is just something to get use to.
Like any type of rifle that is new to you, once you shoot a few hundred rounds
you'll learn its rhythm.

Just wear something thicker than a tank-top and smile while you're shooting
and you'll be fine.

 

[Kaylee]

Out of curiosity, to those who've served with or around troops using underfolders -- how do they carry the things, given that the safety is pretty inaccessible with the underfolder collapsed?

I presume while dismounted it's more common to carry with the stock extended, but surely at times they collapse it, yes? Do they usally carry with the safety off when the stock is collapsed, say hammer forward on an empty champer?

That would seem to be common sense, but I'm curious what the "official doctrine" is (or was)

-K

 

[Kestrel]

Husker,

Thanks for the info. Did you have to cut off the lower tang? If so, how did you do it?

Thanks again.

 

[JWarren]

Kaylee,

You bring up an excellent point. With the underfolder folded, you CANNOT manipulate the safety at all. For that reason, when I am carrying my underfolder for defense at home or in my vehicle, I leave the safety on "Fire" but do not have a round chambered.

It's not the safest, or most ideal solution-- but its the only one I can see.


John

 

[AndyC]

Kaylee, it depends on the crew - let's take military contractors as an example, seeing as I was one.

In a vehicle, the stock was folded - and when we debussed, the stock was extended.

Different companies have different rules - we had one boss who insisted that our weapons were condition 3, even on the road. We pretty much blew him off and cocked our weapons after leaving the base, with the safety-selector set on semi-auto (all the way down) - full-auto is for amateurs. A later boss let us roll however we liked, as long as it was done safely (a single ND would get you dismissed immediately). The first boss was dismissed when his policy caused the deaths of 3 guys in a driveby-shooting outside Mosul - they couldn't cock their weapons fast enough to respond (silly buggers had gone along with his policy).

So basically while on a mission the stock was folded, a round chambered, selector on semi-auto - if we had to debuss while on the road (flat tire, contact, whatever), the stocks were immediately extended.

The underfolders most of us used actually had a cutout in the stock so that you could manipulate the safety while the stock was folded, but it was still finicky.

 

[RTFM]

Kaylee, beat me to it on the safety.
But also I do not think I have ever seen an Under-folder that had the scope side piece installed.
It appears the left side of the under-folder sweeps up and over the location of the riveted side scope mounting location.



RTFM

 

[Thin Black Line]

You bring up an excellent point. With the underfolder folded, you CANNOT manipulate the safety at all.

I can on a yugo, but it is a bit of a two-step. I have to start it by pushing
down from above the folded stock bar, then reach beneath the bar and finish
sliding it down. Yes, it's a little slower. However, if I thought I was going to
have to shoot it for defense, I imagine the stock would already be open.

I presume while dismounted it's more common to carry with the stock extended, but surely at times they collapse it, yes? Do they usally carry with the safety off when the stock is collapsed, say hammer forward on an empty champer?

The Iraqis who were in training/on patrols with US soldiers who had underfolders
I recall had the stock open.

I would have liked to have an UF while I was in Iraq, but by the time I was
there the order against non-issued weapons was already in effect. It would
have been nice for inside the vehicle. Safety manipulation while folded would
be a problem; but, yes, like you point out, you could have a mag in, empty
chamber, and then charge it fairly fast. If I had used one in Iraq, that is
likely how I would have done it to balance everything out. I would have used
it for about one trip until I hit the first clearing barrel and later had the FOB
commander summon me for a refresher on general orders.....that reminds me
of the time when the provost marshall....um...never mind....

 

[Husker1911]

Kestrel, that's an affirmative, the tang was modified by a riflesmith friend.

 

[Prince Yamato]

Let me add, underfolders are fine to shoot. I've shot one on a Krink SBR. It fealt fine. They're also cool from an aesthetic perspective. But I think they are clumsily unfolded and refolded. This is why I second the Romanian stock I mentioned above. I know it looks a little gangly, but it's solid steel. I mean, it feels solid enough (here comes the gunshop commando talk), that if I ran out of ammo, I could plausibly beat someone's head in with it.

If the rifle is just for fun, not for say your private contracting work in Iraq, then by all means, get what looks cool. But for a pure tactical purpose, get the Romanian side-folder. Whatever you do, AVOID the plastic crap being sold at gunshows and by Tapco. Yes, it's functional, but it's plastic. It also makes an AK look "cheap"- if that is at all possible.

 

[AndyC]

But I think they are clumsily unfolded and refolded.

Much as I like underfolders, I agree completely

 

[Forseti]

I like the TAPCO M4 style extending stock for the AK. Adjustable depending on thickness of clothing....and it comes in different colors...and for added comfort, you can put the M4 rubber butt plate on the back...

 

[gp911]

I'm another guy who likes his underfolder. Mine is a recent Yugo, and it is nice and tight. I will agree that deployment of the stock is awkward, and while mine fits me well, a friend shooting with me could not shoulder the rifle properly due to the stock hitting his earmuffs (I was wearing plugs, no muffs). The felt recoil seems to be a little higher than that of a fixed stock as well, though still not too bad.

I'd definitely recommend handling both if at all possible. I'd be really upset if I ordered a rifle and then had to sell it due to poor ergonomics.

I've heard good things about the Polish underfolders, but I love the look of the Polish Tantal sidefolder. It looks way better than the "crutch" or the "T" styles, IMHO.

Definitely try before you buy.

gp911

 

[cheygriz]

I have an underfolder and a fullstock saide folder.
No comparison whatsoever. The underfolder sucks big time. The sidefolder feels like a fixed stock when extended.