Al Qaeda planning attacks in most well known Gun Free Cities

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Everyone who thinks LA and Chicago were picked because there is no CCW in Chicago and almost none in LA is suffering from delusions of grandeur. Do you really believe that an organization that goes toe to toe with the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan cares one iota that some untrained deliveryman or store clerk with a Kel-Tec .32 in his pocket tis going to foil their plan? :eek:

Hardly....CCW is not a factor at all. If an attack like that comes, it's most likely to be in the form of an IED, or maybe several, placed around the mall then detonated.

It would be too big an enterprise to train and control suicide bombers or gunmen.

Jeff
 
The reason LA was picked is almost comically transparent:

LAPD to build data on Muslim areas

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Gestapo tactics. Who will be next? Jews, Christians, African Americans, Hispanics, Asian Americans, Vegans, Gun owners?
this is how the German government acted. first disarm, then profile. When you know where they are round them up.

History has a scary way of repeating itself:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...ck=1&cset=true


Quote:
LAPD to build data on Muslim areas
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Anti-terrorism unit wants to identify sites 'at risk' for extremism.
By Richard Winton, Jean-Paul Renaud and Paul Pringle, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
November 9, 2007
An extensive mapping program launched by the LAPD's anti-terrorism bureau to identify Muslim enclaves across the city sparked outrage Thursday from some Islamic groups and civil libertarians, who denounced the effort as an exercise in racial and religious profiling.

Los Angeles Police Department Deputy Chief Michael P. Downing, who heads the bureau, defended the undertaking as a way to help Muslim communities avoid the influence of those who would radicalize Islamic residents and advocate "violent, ideologically-based extremism."

"We are seeking to identify at-risk communities," Downing said in an interview Thursday evening. "We are looking for communities and enclaves based on risk factors that are likely to become isolated. . . . We want to know where the Pakistanis, Iranians and Chechens are so we can reach out to those communities."

Downing added that the Muslim Public Affairs Council has embraced the vaguely defined program "in concept." The group's executive director, Salam Al-Marayati, said Thursday that it wanted to know more about the plan and had a meeting set with the LAPD next week.

"We will work with the LAPD and give them input, while at the same time making sure that people's civil liberties are protected," said Al-Marayati, who commended Downing for being "very forthright in his engagement with the Muslim community."

Others condemned the project, however.

"We certainly reject this idea completely," said Shakeel Syed, executive director of the Islamic Shura Council of Southern California. "This stems basically from this presumption that there is homogenized Muslim terrorism that exists among us."

Syed said he is a member of Police Chief William J. Bratton's forum of religious advisors, but had not been told of the community mapping program. "This came as a jolt to me," Syed said.

Hussam Ayloush, who leads the Los Angeles chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said the mapping "basically turns the LAPD officers into religious political analysts, while their role is to fight crime and enforce the laws."

During Oct. 30 testimony before Congress, Downing described the program broadly as an attempt to "mitigate radicalization." At that time, he said law enforcement agencies nationwide faced "a vicious, amorphous and unfamiliar adversary on our land."

Downing and other law enforcement officials said police agencies around the world are dealing with radical Muslim groups that are isolated from the larger community, making potential breeding groups for terrorism. He cited terror cells in Europe as well as the case of some Muslim extremists in New Jersey arrested in May for allegedly planning to bomb Ft. Dix.

"We want to map the locations of these closed, vulnerable communities, and in partnership with these communities . . . help [weave] these enclaves into the fabric of the larger society," he said in his testimony.

"To do this, we need to go into the community and get to know peoples' names," he said. "We need to walk into homes, neighborhoods, mosques and businesses."

To assemble the mapping data, Downing said in an interview Thursday, the LAPD intends to enlist USC's Center for Risk and Economic Analysis of Terrorism Events, which was founded four years ago with $12 million in federal funds.

In 2003, university officials said the center would focus on threats to power plants, telecommunications and transportation systems.

It recently was tapped to strengthen security at Los Angeles International Airport.

Downing said the effort would not involve spying on neighborhoods. He said it would identify groups, not individuals.

"This has nothing to do with intelligence," he said, comparing it to market research.

But in his congressional testimony, Downing said the LAPD hoped to identify communities that "may be susceptible to violent, ideologically-based extremism and then use a full-spectrum approach guided by an intelligence-led strategy."

Downing told lawmakers the program would "take a deeper look at the history, demographics, language, culture, ethnic breakdown, socioeconomic status and social interactions."

He added that the project was in its very early stages, and that its cost and full scope have not been determined.

"Physically the work has not begun," Downing said.

The American Civil Liberties Union and some community groups sent a letter Thursday to Downing expressing "grave concerns" about the program and asking for a meeting.

"The mapping of Muslim communities . . . seems premised on the faulty notion that Muslims are more likely to commit violent acts than people of other faiths," the letter states.

ACLU Executive Director Ramona Ripston compared the program to the Red Scare of the 1950s and said: "This is nothing short of racial profiling."

But Al-Marayati said he believed that Downing was working in good faith.

"He is well-known in the Muslim community," he said. "He's been in a number of mosques and been very forthright in his engagement with the Muslim community."

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

Times staff writers Francisco Vara-Orta, Andrew Blankstein and Stuart Silverstein contributed to this report.

Someone please anyone save us!
 
They may remote-control bomb, they may homicide-bomb (using devices as large as semi-trucks), or they could get a dozen or so committed martyrs, and go in with small arms.

Or they could do a drive by on a dozen wal-marts the day after thanksgiving...
 
"We are seeking to identify at-risk communities," Downing said in an interview Thursday evening. "We are looking for communities and enclaves based on risk factors that are likely to become isolated. . . . We want to know where the Pakistanis, Iranians and Chechens are so we can reach out to those communities."

They mention intelligence gathering, I hope they do a good job, those who think this is not a necessary situation are only fooling themselves IMHO...
Chief Bratton just received another 5 year contract for his position, he must be doing something right.

I read they are recruiting the teens and younger to take the bombs in and explode them for Allah.
Just what we need in America. The guns won't be taken away after a few of these kids do their thing.

:)
 
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Jeff White wrote:
Do you really believe that an organization that goes toe to toe with the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan cares one iota that some untrained deliveryman or store clerk with a Kel-Tec .32 in his pocket tis going to foil their plan?

Jeff,
You just blew any chance of making the cover of NetNinja magazine, getting a free invite to ArmChair invitation only double secret probation forum , and you can forget the CCW Badge with built in whistle and flashlight

Terrorism is about instilling Terror.
Between .gov, tin foil , Intraweb and who knows what else...
Everyone is so jumpy , wants their 15 min of fame, and this constant state of FUD is exactly what Terrorism is about, and .gov and everyone else is too.

Everyone is perpetuating this stuff...

Just me mind you, make it known to the MSM we will NOT tolerate this FUD sensationalism they do to keep folks riled up to sell advertising.
Let the Advertisers know we ain't going to put up with their crap either supporting this.
Let the Politicians know we ain't going to put us with dragging feet, red tape, bureaucracy, and instead give the men and women serving however much they need ASAP and kickassandtakenames.
Apply to all these other "War on "[ ] " as well.

Now, stand upright, works better without a bat belt and wheelbarrow to stoop over, give the middle finger salute to all these "Terrors" and get on with living,and tohellwith this FUD.

Just me you understand...
 
They mention intelligence gathering, I hope they do a good job, those who think this is not a necessary situation are only fooling themselves IMHO...

I must be a fool then since I support the fourth ammendment and know for certain that there have been no terror attacks from isolated enclaves of muslims located in LA.

I must be really foolish to think that the police:
"We need to walk into homes, neighborhoods, mosques and businesses."
.

Too bad I don't know a thing about terrorism or how it operates.

Maybe someday I will get involved and learn about it.
 
Everyone who thinks LA and Chicago were picked because there is no CCW in Chicago and almost none in LA is suffering from delusions of grandeur. Do you really believe that an organization that goes toe to toe with the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan cares one iota that some untrained deliveryman or store clerk with a Kel-Tec .32 in his pocket tis going to foil their plan?

Hardly....CCW is not a factor at all. If an attack like that comes, it's most likely to be in the form of an IED, or maybe several, placed around the mall then detonated.

It would be too big an enterprise to train and control suicide bombers or gunmen.

Jeff

Now Jeff, we all know that gun ownership in the US stopped the entire well organized and highly trained Empirial Japanese military from invading the continental US, so knowing this, AQ would only attack areas known for their official low frequency gun ownership records, right? {snicker}

You mean AQ doesn't fear guys like this...
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orange/orl-concealed0707nov07,0,613083.story

LOL!
 
"We need to walk into homes, neighborhoods, mosques and businesses."

Sounds like the beat cop of many cities. Locations that are open to the public seem like fair soil to me. This is a very touchy situation for sure.

Someone has a parade, they need permits and Police to secure that area, try and keep the peace. Unfortunatly many times they don't want Police there, them being there is an insult to freewilled people. Freedom and freewill is not what Democracy is all about, in reality it is freedom with some restrictions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic

For a good reason I'd say.
 
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I guess AQ took the whole "America is not at war, America is at the mall" personally.

I bet they'll try to pass themselves off as hispanic folks, I happen to reside 1 hour due north east of downtown LA(for the moment), as long as they don't use a chemical bomb or nuke I'll sleep well.:uhoh:

They don't stand a F%$King chance of fulfilling there ultimate goal, America will fall by our own hands.

To quote Osama bin ladin "America loves life, we love death that is our biggest difference"

I guess bin ladin chose to lose from the get go. These terrorists are just "Dreamers", the most dangerous kind but also the most foolish.
 
"We need to walk into homes, neighborhoods, mosques and businesses."

Sounds like the beat cop of many cities. Locations that are open to the public seem like fair soil to me.

Maybe in Northern California that is a cop beat. My home is not open to the public. Any cop who I don't invite in better have a legal warrant. California... absolutely amazing.

Freedom and freewill is not what Democracy is all about, in reality it is freedom with some restrictions.

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't know since I don't live in a democracy. I live in a Republic.
 
Campers, this war hasn't been going on for six years.

It's been going on for CENTURIES.

They can afford to wait. That gives them a control advantage.

Stock market took a dive this week. Why? I'll guess that part of it is a buncha investors who are figuring that we're gonna get some problems here in the US pretty soon...
 
Bogie said:
Stock market took a dive this week. Why? I'll guess that part of it is a buncha investors who are figuring that we're gonna get some problems here in the US pretty soon...

Investors don't have any special insights into "problems here in the US soon." The stockmarket took a dive because ther has been some business earnings that have been worse than expected, and the investors, being human, get scared off and take their money and run.
Smart people don't invest for the short term, they do it for the long term.
 
Stock market took a dive this week. Why? I'll guess that part of it is a buncha investors who are figuring that we're gonna get some problems here in the US pretty soon...

That is about as spurious as the claim of targeting gun free cities. What is it about the market swings of this week that make it different from any other week? Do you think the Country Wide loan fiasco that spilled over into a slowed housing market (and vice versa), Wachovia's 1.1 Billion writedown, and the Feds lowering the interest rate to help stimulate the economy are somehow in response to a possible AQ attack?
 
If they're planning attacks... where are they? Where the heck have they been for the last few years?

I can't see that it would be hard to get a half-dozen or even a full dozen thugs into the country. I can't see that a Beslan, USA would be that hard to set up for AQ. Just look at what Cho did at V-Tech. No military training, no full-autos, AFAIK no real firearms training of any kind. He had a .22 and a 9mm pistol, and did quite a bit of execution. A half-dozen thugs with rifles, shotguns, handguns, whatever - I think it's well within AQ's ability to set up - to train the people involved, and arm them.

Why hasn't AQ done it? I couldn't say. I'd think it's well within their power to send people over here... but they haven't done anything. Why are they setting off bombs in London and Spain, but not here?

The well-known gun-free cities just happen to be the largest cities in the country. Large cities tend to prefer to infringe on rights, whenever given the chance. See Bloomberg, wanting to run NYC like his own personal fiefdom.
 
I doubt if guns enter into AQ's thinking. Suicide bombers, car bombs, arson, maybe. Probably not a guy walking into a mall and opening up with an AK47. Possible, but probably not the main plan.

Even in a carry zone, a terrorist would likely get enough victims before being brought down to consider the attack a success.

K
 
Why hasn't AQ done it? I couldn't say. I'd think it's well within their power to send people over here... but they haven't done anything. Why are they setting off bombs in London and Spain, but not here?

Well first, apparently several attacks have been stopped. They don't garner the news time and headlines of successful attacks, but several have...such as the guys caught coming across with the border from Canada with explosives.

They did attack several US embassies abroad.

They did make a military attack on the USS Cole (attacking military targets isn't considered terrorism via the US's definition of terrorism, although it is often linked with them).

Also, AQ isn't just against the US. They are against western values and non-muslim beliefs.

They don't have to be in the US to harm US interests or to harm western interests.

Lastly, they don't have to attack all the time. That is the beauty of terrorism once the seed is planted. Just the threat of a violent act is enough to cause concern and to cost $$. It costs the US millions of $ every time the threat level is raised. Terrorism is still working without continually conducting terroristic acts.
 
I think some of you missed the point of my initial post, I guess I didn't make it clear. Was supposed to be a bit sarcastic.

How many times have we heard the anti's give as the excuse for gun bans the fear or terrorists getting their hands on them? LA? Land of the "we can't have .50 calibers because the terrorists might use them".

Chicago "we need to keep guns off the street to stop terrorism".

I don't believe that terrorists will use small arms either, but we have been told over and over that the reason for the gun bans was for that very reason, and of course those cities and areas with the bans in place continue to be in as much danger as anywhere else and in this case are specific targets.

I thought gun bans were supposed to prevent this. You mean they don't? Hmmmmmm
 
TR, Sadly while you are correct I think the broader truth is about a lot more than guns. This is just another attempt to encorach on freedoms across the board, not just the RKBA.

There have been zero attacks from enclaves muslims in LA. There have been almost none nationwide that have involved firearms, yet that is where they want to focus efforts. This more of being a "bad liar" than actually doing something productive. LA is almost certainly a test case for what is certain to be a broader program throughout the country.
 
Spreading fear

With official over-reactions to minor target indicators (a false positive response), and rain making agitprop over unactionable intelligence, all AQ has to do is generate a background of false alarms mixed with real (but harmless) decoys to create economic and psych war. Then for effect a real attack every now and then will have much more impact on a nanny-ized population. Apparently all they need to do is leave empty cartridge boxes and cleaning kits in sore spots:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/5279211.html

For a feminized, coddled population afraid of such miniscule risks as second hand smoke, it doesn't take much.

CCW may not play into their planning, but it is an indicator as to whether an area is a sheep pasture or a dark forest with wolf dens. Our ruling elite also sense this indicator and dislike it.

There have been other events recently in the news that a malevalent person or group could exploit with both real and psychological effects that don't require much more than a rental car, some convenience store supplies, and a map. My guess is the real hatefilled functionaries are tied up elsewhere.
 
CCW may not play into their planning, but it is an indicator as to whether an area is a sheep pasture or a dark forest with wolf dens. Our ruling elite also sense this indicator and dislike it.
There is probably some truth to that, and I suspect they will go after the sissified areas first, mostly because they are going to be easier to cow.
 
Again, these folks take the time and plan... I'm of the opinion that some of the "isolated" attacks (SLC mall, beltway sniper) were basically set up by handlers as tests... Maybe the perps _thought_ they came up with it themselves, and they may not have received a lot of visible support, but I'll bet that at one time, they had someone basically whispering bad crazies in their ears...

A dozen beltway sniper teams, with the right sort of targets, and you could dump the stock market 3,000 points.
 
I don't think Al Qaeda will resort to small groups of gunmen. They want high body counts in the hundreds if not thousands. Methinks that if there are gunmen, it will be uncoordinated, Al Qaeda or Hezbollah sympathizers acting independently. That's a very real threat as its difficult to detect and deter unless local law enforcement has its ears to the ground monitoring suspicious activity.
 
There are undoubtedly reasons Al Qaida hasn't attempted anything coherent in the US lately:


1] They've got their hands full elsewhere (i.e. their resources are saturated just trying to exist)

2] Jihad is a passion and prefers immediate gratification (it's better to blow up a few locals today than 1000 Americans after 5 years of preparation)

3] Budget constraints

4] Western and local government interdiction

5] To do anything big in the US, they'd have to get sloppy about their secrecy, opening them up to #4


On the other hand, they need to do something big in the US for morale reasons. They're guerillas and they're subject to the psychological weaknesses common to guerillas. As long as they exist, they're a problem for their enemies, but if they don't have any conspicuous victories, their support will eventually evaporate because it's hard to keep fighting when you never win anything. If they don't drive the infidel out of Iraq, they'll need a big win in the US. Something in Europe probably won't be good enough.
 
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