bogie
Member
They shoot up a school, folks likely won't stop sending their kids to school. They shoot up a mall, and then do a second one, or maybe a large chain store, and folks will quit shopping.
Terrorists At The Mall ?
- Thread starter David
- Start date
- Status
geegee
Member
I've believed for the longest time that our malls are a prime target, and nearly equal in value to what happened on 9-11. My reason for saying that is those initial attacks sent a message that the mega-targets, e.g. WTC, The White House and/or Pentagon, and other targets in our largest cities could be attacked successfully. That been said, how many Americans can relate to living in NYC, or Washington, D.C.? I don't ask that dismissively in any way to trivialize what took place in those places, but rather to say that in middle America, too many people can't relate to life there.
Now if a plain vanilla "cafe bomber," of the variety Israeli's have to deal with each and every day, were to walk into a department store in Abilene, Texas, or a Starbucks in Omaha, Nebraska, the message then would be that the terrorists are going to the heartland. That would have a chilling effect on Americans, and really make many realize that like the Israeli's, there are now people in the world that want Americans dead just because of who we are. Not because of party affiliation, not because of color or religion, but because we're Americans. That would be a wake up call. geegee
Now if a plain vanilla "cafe bomber," of the variety Israeli's have to deal with each and every day, were to walk into a department store in Abilene, Texas, or a Starbucks in Omaha, Nebraska, the message then would be that the terrorists are going to the heartland. That would have a chilling effect on Americans, and really make many realize that like the Israeli's, there are now people in the world that want Americans dead just because of who we are. Not because of party affiliation, not because of color or religion, but because we're Americans. That would be a wake up call. geegee
semf
member
I might be paranoid or because I work the night shift and drive all night but never encounter traffic I notice it more when I drive in the daytime.
Traffic around the malls here at Christmas time is horrendous. If a group of guys say about 10 to 12 in large vans were to block traffic from the front and rear and just simply walk down the line shooting into the trapped cars they could get an impressive body count plus inflict major phycological damage. Plus it would be a tactical nightmare for LE to respond to.
I hate driving in daylight now think about how helpless you feel in a traffic jam now
Traffic around the malls here at Christmas time is horrendous. If a group of guys say about 10 to 12 in large vans were to block traffic from the front and rear and just simply walk down the line shooting into the trapped cars they could get an impressive body count plus inflict major phycological damage. Plus it would be a tactical nightmare for LE to respond to.
I hate driving in daylight now think about how helpless you feel in a traffic jam now
Highland Ranger
Member
I've always wondered . . . .
why they didn't or haven't hit us at multiple soft targets in middle america or the left coast . . . . seems like that would paralyze things for a while . . . maybe there really aren't all that many of them or the good guys are doing their job . . .
Lets hope the inactivity continues.
why they didn't or haven't hit us at multiple soft targets in middle america or the left coast . . . . seems like that would paralyze things for a while . . . maybe there really aren't all that many of them or the good guys are doing their job . . .
Lets hope the inactivity continues.
I dont want to come off poorly in my first post, but maybe its not so wise to be posting a list of "ideas" on how to inflict worse damage on America. I know it wasnt anyones intention to do so, but if they havent thought of it....maybe we shouldnt be putting ideas into their heads. The other side is the Fed side......im sure certain powers would love nothing more than to paint us (freedom lovers) as a terrorist think-tank. Again if I came off poorly or uninformed than disreguard, just a thought.
geegee
Member
Hey Jun Fan, welcome to THR!
Your points are valid and well made, and I'm sure each of us considered that before hitting the "submit reply" button. I guess my take on that is that terrorists of the sort that we are discussing may lurk here, but probably have some pretty good ideas already. Many of them have already been tried in Israel, Japan, or Europe. Not making light of them, I just think they would probably already have a few ideas without coming here for some new ones.
The Feds? Hard to believe Carnivore doesn't at least "graze" here on occasion already.
geegee
Your points are valid and well made, and I'm sure each of us considered that before hitting the "submit reply" button. I guess my take on that is that terrorists of the sort that we are discussing may lurk here, but probably have some pretty good ideas already. Many of them have already been tried in Israel, Japan, or Europe. Not making light of them, I just think they would probably already have a few ideas without coming here for some new ones.
The Feds? Hard to believe Carnivore doesn't at least "graze" here on occasion already.
geegeecapt_happypants
Member In Memoriam
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2003
- Messages
- 304
I think the Islamists suffer from an sort of tunnel vision when it comes to organizing attacks. They focus on the symbolism of a given target, without much focus on the actual effects.
9.11.01
Pentagon - the symbol of US military power
WTC - the symbol of US ecnomic power
White House - the symbol of US political power
IIRC, the goal of Al-Qaeda was to destroy all four, and effectively wreck the power of the U.S. That was based on a fundamental error - that power in the U.S. is centralized, rather than dispersed. Many in the Islamist world still belive in the "Blackhawk Down" scenario - kill Americans, and they'll retreat. Yes, we're pounding the snot out of them in the Sandbox, but some people just aren't getting the hint.
If the intel is correct, and we're about to get hit, I will venture a few guesses.
1. Places with significant symbolic meaning, like the Mall of America, are at very high risk.
2. Places with a large population of Jews are at high risk. Killing the infidel Americans and a few Jews would score major points with the moonbat wing of Islam.
3. Places with weak security, particularly malls in states without shall-issue CCW, are at very high risk. Al-Qaeda is very good at identifying and exploiting security holes.
4. Al-Qaeda will try for a massive attack, with high casualty counts and lots of footage to play for the jihadists-in-training across the world. I expect to see a large car bomb - possibly using a hijacked tanker truck full of gasoline (bad) or LPG (far, far worse).
The logistics aren't very hard, and organizing an attack should be fairly easy. There are two possibilities - the infrastructure of the terror groups is badly damaged, and they lack the manpower and the funding to operate, or they're waiting for an opportunity.
I pray it's the former.
9.11.01
Pentagon - the symbol of US military power
WTC - the symbol of US ecnomic power
White House - the symbol of US political power
IIRC, the goal of Al-Qaeda was to destroy all four, and effectively wreck the power of the U.S. That was based on a fundamental error - that power in the U.S. is centralized, rather than dispersed. Many in the Islamist world still belive in the "Blackhawk Down" scenario - kill Americans, and they'll retreat. Yes, we're pounding the snot out of them in the Sandbox, but some people just aren't getting the hint.
If the intel is correct, and we're about to get hit, I will venture a few guesses.
1. Places with significant symbolic meaning, like the Mall of America, are at very high risk.
2. Places with a large population of Jews are at high risk. Killing the infidel Americans and a few Jews would score major points with the moonbat wing of Islam.
3. Places with weak security, particularly malls in states without shall-issue CCW, are at very high risk. Al-Qaeda is very good at identifying and exploiting security holes.
4. Al-Qaeda will try for a massive attack, with high casualty counts and lots of footage to play for the jihadists-in-training across the world. I expect to see a large car bomb - possibly using a hijacked tanker truck full of gasoline (bad) or LPG (far, far worse).
The logistics aren't very hard, and organizing an attack should be fairly easy. There are two possibilities - the infrastructure of the terror groups is badly damaged, and they lack the manpower and the funding to operate, or they're waiting for an opportunity.
I pray it's the former.
kcslim
Member
YOu might want to check out this site,it is a forum that discusses terrorism,and other items of interest.
http://www.itshappening.com/index.php
It is a good site for info.
http://www.itshappening.com/index.php
It is a good site for info.
Cool Hand Luke 22:36
member
Tom Bri
Member
Attacking middle America would be an insane move for them. Of course they are insane, by our standards. Just imagine the reaction from the public. Iraq would look like small change after that. We might just give up "nation building" efforts entirely for nation destroying. A lot cheaper and easier!
Random violence, traceable to a specific perpetrator or group of perps, like the DC sniper, would have a devestating effect on our economy, which is the biggest force multiplier of all, since all must partake in it.
Going to places like malls, discount stores (Wal-Marts, Targets, etc.) would be a very direct rout toward disrupting the economy and far more useful than killing random homeowners at the door. Malvo and Muhammed definitely hurt the DC area economy, since people were scared to go out unecessarily, perhaps staying home from work and certainly not buying more than necessities. Had the snipers staked out groceries, I bet they'd have been more successful at creating terror, since people would have to choose to risk getting shot or starve.
Now, just imagine several hundred sniper teams and suicide bombers doing their thing. We might eventually get security procedures that were effective and learn to live with it like Israel has, but I bet it would cause our economy to shrink (and mail order to go up), since security would be a drain on profits and the inconvenience would curtail impulse shopping.
Attacking Middle America would most certainly NOT be insane, since Middle America feels isolated and insulated from what happens in big cities and on the coasts, from all the news stories I've seen. Blowing up a Wal-Mart in Peoria and Phoenix, toppling the Gateway Arch, opening up on shoppers in the Mall of America, and a biological attack in Birmingham would scare the hell out of people, particularly if these things were simultaneously co-ordinated as a massive offensive in a dozen or more mid-size cities in the Midwest, Southwest and Southeast.
Oh, one more thing. A terrorist might be smart to start some racial violence by killing minorities, such that these groups would think they are being targeted by whites. Even when this was discovered, the terrorists could continue, as these groups would think they were being ignored by LE who were too busy protecting whites. Riots and the concomitant destrucion of infrastucture and commerce would have a definite economic effect.
Going to places like malls, discount stores (Wal-Marts, Targets, etc.) would be a very direct rout toward disrupting the economy and far more useful than killing random homeowners at the door. Malvo and Muhammed definitely hurt the DC area economy, since people were scared to go out unecessarily, perhaps staying home from work and certainly not buying more than necessities. Had the snipers staked out groceries, I bet they'd have been more successful at creating terror, since people would have to choose to risk getting shot or starve.
Now, just imagine several hundred sniper teams and suicide bombers doing their thing. We might eventually get security procedures that were effective and learn to live with it like Israel has, but I bet it would cause our economy to shrink (and mail order to go up), since security would be a drain on profits and the inconvenience would curtail impulse shopping.
Attacking Middle America would most certainly NOT be insane, since Middle America feels isolated and insulated from what happens in big cities and on the coasts, from all the news stories I've seen. Blowing up a Wal-Mart in Peoria and Phoenix, toppling the Gateway Arch, opening up on shoppers in the Mall of America, and a biological attack in Birmingham would scare the hell out of people, particularly if these things were simultaneously co-ordinated as a massive offensive in a dozen or more mid-size cities in the Midwest, Southwest and Southeast.
Oh, one more thing. A terrorist might be smart to start some racial violence by killing minorities, such that these groups would think they are being targeted by whites. Even when this was discovered, the terrorists could continue, as these groups would think they were being ignored by LE who were too busy protecting whites. Riots and the concomitant destrucion of infrastucture and commerce would have a definite economic effect.
Pendragon
Member
I too have often shuddered when my mind wandered to "what could happen".
Of course the school and mall scenarios could happen - and probably will at some point.
But I really think that the arabs have some real blind spots when it comes to understanding our culture and what would really get to us.
They seem to be much more worried about how THEY will come out of an attack than how WE will come out of it.
Culturally, their military forces tend to suffer from the culture of "looking good over being good". There are some good articles on why this is, but I think it carries over to their terror plots as well.
They are very much putting on a show for the folks back home when they hit us. If they do some puny, low flash school massacre, the people back home will think - wow, I guess all they could do was get a few guns and shoot kids in a yard - thats IT?
I really think that in their mind, such attacks would be an admission of how low tech and small they really are.
"Yep, we, uh, could not get on any more planes without people giving us the stink eye - so we thought, what the heck, lets buy some guns!"
They are used to seeing death and they probably see body cound as being somewhat mundane in and of its self.
But were they to score on one of our big juicy targets, then they get the prestige. I think they have at least a slight inferiority complex about us and doing a simple fish-in-a-barrel shoot up would kind of confirm that "that was all they could do - because American security was SO good".
I think those shoot-ups will come much later in the game - when they land a few more "big ones" and just want to keep us jumpy.
Of course the school and mall scenarios could happen - and probably will at some point.
But I really think that the arabs have some real blind spots when it comes to understanding our culture and what would really get to us.
They seem to be much more worried about how THEY will come out of an attack than how WE will come out of it.
Culturally, their military forces tend to suffer from the culture of "looking good over being good". There are some good articles on why this is, but I think it carries over to their terror plots as well.
They are very much putting on a show for the folks back home when they hit us. If they do some puny, low flash school massacre, the people back home will think - wow, I guess all they could do was get a few guns and shoot kids in a yard - thats IT?
I really think that in their mind, such attacks would be an admission of how low tech and small they really are.
"Yep, we, uh, could not get on any more planes without people giving us the stink eye - so we thought, what the heck, lets buy some guns!"
They are used to seeing death and they probably see body cound as being somewhat mundane in and of its self.
But were they to score on one of our big juicy targets, then they get the prestige. I think they have at least a slight inferiority complex about us and doing a simple fish-in-a-barrel shoot up would kind of confirm that "that was all they could do - because American security was SO good".
I think those shoot-ups will come much later in the game - when they land a few more "big ones" and just want to keep us jumpy.
BluesBear
member
Only if you drive at least 100mph
As much as I hate to say it, I think Bill Hook has raised a point here that can not be overestimated.
As I think I've said before, my school is less than 5 miles from the middle school where the student was shot. On the day when the initial shootings took place in Montgomery County and law enforcement was just trying to figure out what was going on, there were students and teachers alike making statements like, "There are a bunch of racists going around shooting black people".
It was chilling for me to observe that, even within the confines of a school building, these rumors could spread so fast and be accepted as fact. Should this wildfire rumoring take place in the population as a whole, would it be able to be reversed even if it could be demonstrated that it were untrue?
I'd like to hope that these folks, teachers especially, realize the folly and danger of making such inflammatory remarks.......but I doubt it.
Maybe my tin foil hat is cutting off circulation to my brain.....
Farbror
Member
Remember the Mall Bomber in Finland last year? One delusional young man with ordinary kitchen supplies and ball bearings killed six and injured 80, not counting himself.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2322275.stm
Imagine if something like that happens in christmas shopping time ... The body count would rise horribly. *shivers*
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2322275.stm
Imagine if something like that happens in christmas shopping time ... The body count would rise horribly. *shivers*
semf
member
Jun Fan- I thought of that before I made my comment, then I thought about the fact that the reason these scenarios are in our minds is because almost every thing discussed here has been done by these people somwhere. They attacked a school in Isreal, they regularly shoot into buses, and they attack in shopping malls almost weekly.
This what these people do I doubt seriously that I at my most devious moment could insruct them.
As a Race Traitor(been one for many years) I always knew I, and my type, were first on every body's list. In the back of my mind I still fear this, it's probably my one true paraoia(sp?).
This what these people do I doubt seriously that I at my most devious moment could insruct them.
One of the big fears of my generation, at least down south, was a race war. We had the Black Panthers, KKK , Zebra Killers, Liberty City, and quite afew race based riots very close to my home in Fla and in Ala. It was regular TV news fare.
As a Race Traitor(been one for many years) I always knew I, and my type, were first on every body's list. In the back of my mind I still fear this, it's probably my one true paraoia(sp?).
geegee
Member
I grew up in Buffalo, N.Y. That's about a 7-7 1/2 hour drive from NYC. Once you get about 1 1/2 hours from NYC, people who live there will generally say they live "upstate." I don't say this to sound pedantic, as though to deliver a geograpy lesson, but rather to say that even for New Yorkers, outside of the city is often another world. The lifestyle is different and the values are different (drive less than four hours from NYC and you're in rural dairyland that looks like Wisconsin).
Not by the folks who live in flyover country. They know every few years that Mother Nature will have her way with them, and they prepare for it and accept it, but terrorist acts? Unprecedented, but I think it would probably create more fear for the folks in the big cities than the people in the heartland, who have much lower expectations of the government curing their ills than their big city cousins. geegee
The Dept. of Homeland Security always says to report anything "suspicious" to law enforcement.
What would you consider "suspicious" enough (in the context of a potential "mall terrorist") to report to the police?
And I wonder if the police would do anything in time because of the fear of not being "PC" (i.e. the police not wanting to "profile" someone)?
Just my 2 cents...
What would you consider "suspicious" enough (in the context of a potential "mall terrorist") to report to the police?
And I wonder if the police would do anything in time because of the fear of not being "PC" (i.e. the police not wanting to "profile" someone)?
Just my 2 cents...
Also, this is an Infidel holiday when the number of muslims killed would be fewer than normal, making it a perfect time to get to the "enemy." Chaunaka is also during the height of the Christmas season, meaning the hated "Jewish Zionists" would die too.
When I made my comments about racial violence, in case anyone missed this aspect of it, I believe that it is a "Win-Win" situation for terrorists, since even when they are found to be behind it, and not whites, the minority groups will believe they're being ignored to protect whites instead.
geegee
Member
Boy, now there's a topic that could fill a half dozen page thread. I'll be the first to say that if random violence around the world (as well as American planes being flown into buildings) was being committed by overweight, middle aged, white guys, then I ought to expect a little extra scrutiny when I fly, or buy a gun and some ammo.
Boo-hoooo, my poor little, violated civil rights! geegeeXLMiguel
Member
Mr. Hook makes some interesting observations on the racial impact. We certainly heard some of that locally during the anthrax scare visia vis quarantining the Congressional offices (predominently white) vs the post offices (predominently black) where the mail passed thru. No doubt Brothers Jesse and Al would be very busy.
The other racial/ethnic impact that he failed to mention is that a few mall bombings by radical Islamists would likely result in open season on American Muslims, or at least a lot of ugly incidents for a while, that would hardly be good for the public peace.
The other racial/ethnic impact that he failed to mention is that a few mall bombings by radical Islamists would likely result in open season on American Muslims, or at least a lot of ugly incidents for a while, that would hardly be good for the public peace.
Jeff Thomas
Member
I don't think this is anywhere near the top of their worry list, but there is a political downside once radical Islamists start to take Americans on in their own backyard. Right now there is a tendency for many liberals (especially) to view much of this as a partisan issue, created by Republicans, etc. Many liberals currently are quite surprisingly empathetic towards Palestinians, for example. They're in a state of denial about the war.
Consider how the landscape changes if our own neighborhoods are affected. Hatred of radical Islamists will spike, and peaceful Muslims in the U.S. (citizen or otherwise) will come under tremendous pressure ... to either participate in finding and stopping such nutcases, or be perceived as allies of radical Islamists.
Even with large scale hits, these savages avoid much wholesale hatred, and Americans remain somewhat divided. Look at some of the absurd comments made in the race for the Democrat nomination ... in a time of war.
Attack more often, more deeply ... and there is just a chance that more Americans will finally get over denial, and recognize this is truly a long-term war with Islamic extremists / savages. For all his failings, on this, they will recognize Bush is right.
Do I think these barbarians are that strategic in their thinking. No. But that is the effect of the current situation.
I pray none of the discussion above will ever come to pass. But I too am not sanguine about the prospects. It is indeed a good time for decent, peaceful Americans to be vigilant, and prepared to defend innocents.
By the way ... happy holidays to you. We'll get through this, and be stronger for it.
Regards from TX
Consider how the landscape changes if our own neighborhoods are affected. Hatred of radical Islamists will spike, and peaceful Muslims in the U.S. (citizen or otherwise) will come under tremendous pressure ... to either participate in finding and stopping such nutcases, or be perceived as allies of radical Islamists.
Even with large scale hits, these savages avoid much wholesale hatred, and Americans remain somewhat divided. Look at some of the absurd comments made in the race for the Democrat nomination ... in a time of war.
Attack more often, more deeply ... and there is just a chance that more Americans will finally get over denial, and recognize this is truly a long-term war with Islamic extremists / savages. For all his failings, on this, they will recognize Bush is right.
Do I think these barbarians are that strategic in their thinking. No. But that is the effect of the current situation.
I pray none of the discussion above will ever come to pass. But I too am not sanguine about the prospects. It is indeed a good time for decent, peaceful Americans to be vigilant, and prepared to defend innocents.
By the way ... happy holidays to you. We'll get through this, and be stronger for it.
Regards from TX
I go to pretty high risk places pretty often. Im cautious but not scared. anyway, what we are doing in talking about what could happen is nothing like the media. they are reciting the speeches rich with odd terms "the lions have taken their position" that are almost surely symbology for some of their cells.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked