If the school is going to have a specific person whose (unpaid) job is to use a firearm to protect kids and the school is required, by law, to pay for that person's training, why is it unreasonable for that person to be required to meet some physical standards?Looking at AK State Senator Hughes, there's no way she could pass a physical fitness test required of current AK LE.
I'm sorry that's a ridiculous anti-gun requirement and the AK Republican Party needs to start looking for replacements for her. Both Missouri and Arkansas have armed teachers. Maybe she needs to copy our homework / laws.
Alaska Safe Schools Act
- Thread starter D.B. Cooper
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dogtown tom
Member
Any state/city/school district that doesn't allow a teacher to carry a firearm on campus is denying that teacher their Second Amendment rights.
This proposed law places onerous restrictions on teachers who want to protect themselves and their students. Thats shameful.
This isn't a school district policy, but a state law.
Damned right.
Teachers get attacked all the time in their classrooms. If a teacher is going to bring a gun unto that setting then they better be able to keep it.
If you allow teachers to be armed do you also allow other school staff? How about visiting parents with a permit?
If you allow teachers to be armed do you also allow other school staff? How about visiting parents with a permit?
dogtown tom
Member
It's not unreasonable to have physical fitness requirements as long as its related to the job tasks.
In my district the School Marshal position requires:
Physical Demands/Environmental Factors:
Frequent district-wide and occasional statewide travel; occasional prolonged and irregular hours; frequent
standing, stooping, bending, kneeling, pushing and pulling; occasional lifting up to 50 pounds; prolonged use
of computer and repetitive hand motions.
Literally the same standards as any classroom teacher.
Reading is fundamental. For the second or third time, this is not about an individual's right to protect themselves, but a specific job/duty requirement.
So what? This isn't your school district, is it?
dogtown tom
Member
Good grief man I know that. You are arguing as if I'm not aware of that.
It's a stupid law, and such a job duty would be unnecessary if the state of Alaska would allow teachers to exercise the Second Amendment rights.
Special training, job descriptions, physical fitness requirements or "discretion" are restrictions.
No, but my advocacy for Second Amendment rights isn't limited to my school district.
And BTW, it isn't YOUR school district either.
nobody forces anyone to work in a school far as I know.
Do students have a Second Amendment right in school? If a 18 year old high school senior wants to carry a Kabar or an AR at school for defense - does he or she have the right?
And which is a bigger deterrent… a few teachers with guns or the entire class of 2024 all shooting at the attacker with Mossberg 590’s? Maybe arming everyone over 18 is the way to go.
dogtown tom
Member
They don't.
But your argument was "I'm not sure why nationally we're not making it required for anyone who works in a school to carry, and you would need an exemption to not carry and keep your job.".
It's as silly as "why we aren't making church pastors carry" or "why we aren't making WalMart clerks carry" or any number of other professions and occupations.
Carrying a firearm should be a personal choice. If its part of the job description one would know before taking the job.
Tell us what other occupations should be required to be armed?
Silliness abounds.
dogtown tom
Member
I think they do.
Courts don't.
One teacher with a gun would have been better than the 376 police officers on scene at Uvalde.
The answer isn't "more guns". It's a person with a gun willing to defend themselves and others and act immediately.
A gun doesn’t solve any issues that might confront a classroom, or school. The person carrying the gun can resolve issues, but they need to know when to act and how to act. They must be capable of acting in a way that maximizes the outcome. If I had a child in a classroom, I would want some level of ongoing training for those that carried a gun. I live in a constitutional carry state, but I will admit that I would prefer that those that carry maintain some basic understanding of the law and some basic gun handling skills. This is like preferring that drivers don’t drink and drive and drive with some level of civility. Not a perfect world.
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D.B. Cooper
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I'm not talking about why people join unions, I'm talking about who they elect to run their unions. But whatever.
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D.B. Cooper
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I'm not making perfect the enemy of good; I'm pointing out that if the concern is a student might take a gun from a teacher, then we shouldn't have police in or any armed security in our schools. In other words, it's not a valid reason to deny 2A rights to teachers.
For the millionth time, this has nothing to do with individual 2nd amendment rights.
It's not just SOME physical standards, it's the SAME physical standards - Push Ups, Run, Bench Press your weight, etc.
The only one passing that, might be a young Gym Teacher.
Look at the Missouri Law for Armed Teachers:
160.665
School protection officers, teachers or administrators may be designated as — authorized to carry concealed firearms — requirements — public hearing to be held, when.
Let me point out a key statute of the Missouri Law:
6. Any teacher or administrator of an elementary or secondary school who seeks to be designated as a school protection officer shall request such designation in writing, and submit it to the superintendent of the school district which employs him or her as a teacher or administrator. Along with this request, any teacher or administrator seeking to carry a concealed firearm on school property shall also submit proof that he or she has a valid concealed carry endorsement or permit, and all teachers and administrators seeking the designation of school protection officer shall submit a certificate of school protection officer training program completion from a training program approved by the director of the department of public safety which demonstrates that such person has successfully completed the training requirements established by the POST commission under chapter 590 for school protection officers.
Chapter 590
https://revisor.mo.gov/main/OneChapter.aspx?chapter=590
What does the School Protection Officer Training in Missouri involve?
Well it's not some 3 mile run and bench press.
Here's what the University of Missouri trains:
School Protection Officer Training | MU Extension
The School Protection Officer Certification is offered once per calendar year. Registration link will be shared here when open or you can check LETI events | The School Protection Officer Certification is offered once per calendar year. Registration link will be shared here when open or you can...
The three week, 120 hour course, meets all of the statutory requirements for SPO certification and includes lessons in Use of Force Justification, Emergency Response, Building Search, Survival Mentality, Handcuffing and Restraint Devices, Weapon Retention and Disarming, Ground Fighting Techniques, Basic First Aid/CPR, Combat First Aid and more than 40 hours of Advanced Firearms Training.
Also:
On top of the 112 hours of training each SPO much complete a minimum of 12 hours re-certification training annually to maintain certification as SPO.
Missouri School Protection Officer | Peace Keepers Training
Strategos International now offers “School Protection Officer” (SPO) training program services for Missouri school teachers and administrators that wish to ...
peacekeeperstraining.com
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buck460XVR
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Iffin I remember correctly, The Guns Free Schools Act is a Federal law.
dogtown tom
Member
I didn't vote for Donald Trump because he believed that bump stocks were actually machine guns and that silencers should be prohibited, but he does.
Quite a few people get elected to office without being entirely honest and forthcoming about the true beliefs.
dogtown tom
Member
Yet it does.
This law ignores the individual Second Amendment right of a teacher, forcing them to meet certain standards to exercise their right to carry.
So you think any company (and schools are businesses, no doubt) should honor wearing a gun for any reason? Federal buildings? Courts? Airplanes?
dogtown tom
Member
And?
Gun-Free Schools Act of 1994 (GFSA) has to do with schools and "zero tolerance" policies.
the
Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 has to do with the possession of firearms within 1,000ft of a school.
It clearly exempts those who have a license to carry from their state and those who have permission of their employer.
The Alaska standards do not involve bench press or a 3 mile run. The minimum standard is 25 push ups in a minute, 27 sit ups in a minute and a 1.5 mile run in 15 minutes 12 seconds. I'm in my 40's and could pass those standards with ease.
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dogtown tom
Member
No. Public schools are not private businesses.
If Target or WalMart want to restrict what happens on their property that's their business. The Bill of Rights is a restriction on government, not me, not a private business.
Public schools are not private property.
Possession of firearms in federal buildings, courts and airplanes has the "reasonable restrictions" that also apply to prisons and correctional facilities.
The federal district court ruled last week that prohibiting firearm possession in post offices is unconstitutional.
Why is this any different than physical fitness standards for police? Protecting the right of school staff to carry a firearm is a whole different subject. Citizens who carry firearms are not officially volunteering to augment police response. They might, if they so choose, but that's not their job. This designated person's job would go well beyond what is required of a "normal" handgun carrier.
Elkins45
Member
I was in the classroom during the years of Columbine and that shooting in Jonesboro Arkansas were they stole Grandpa’s M1 carbine, pulled the fire alarm and picked people off as the exited the school. Some joker thought it would be funny to pull out alarm the next morning. I’ll never forget the feeling of walking out that door and hoping I wasn’t about to take fire from the parking lot.
I would have carried if allowed. It might not have made a difference, but then again it might have made a huge one.
dogtown tom
Member
Because this law has a higher standard for physical fitness than teaching positions. This isn't a School Marshal or School Resource Officer position, its a teacher being required to meet a training standard and physical fitness standard in order to carry a firearm, This law isn't putting another cop on campus.
No kidding. Thats my point. This law doesn't allow a teacher to carry unless they meet the standards. Thats wrong IMO.
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