Alaska Safe Schools Act

[bearcreek]

Seems they’d want the room assignment on record so LEO’s know who the good guys with guns are and where they are. Maybe the plan is to get everyone in “safe huddle areas” and guard the entrances rather than sending anyone out to confront the shooter. Maybe that’s practical, maybe it’s not…

Could be. I would think it would depend on the situation (as it often does). Given a scenario, such as you described earlier, where police response is measured in hours or days I imagine they may want someone who can respond beyond the classroom.

 

[Doc Samson]

For teachers -- those few that would qualify -- to volunteer for this additional duty, they would have to be paid a salary supplement. Otherwise, it would make no sense for them to do so. Since the schools aren't going to pay a salary supplement, and nobody is going to volunteer, the issue is moot.

I know several of "us" in the schools who would gladly protect the kids for no extra pay...

There are over 2,033,623 certified teachers currently employed in the United States.

Do you profess to know all of their political leanings?

Not too hard to find out. Teachers (even in my county which votes a little over 60% conservative) lean Left. Of course there are going to be exceptions to the rule...

Survey: Educators' Political Leanings, Who They Voted For, Where They Stand on Key Issues

Despite strong opinions and partisan viewpoints, an Education Week Research Center survey shows teachers, principals, and administrators working to keep those divisions out of the classroom.

www.edweek.org

 

[bearcreek]

For teachers -- those few that would qualify -- to volunteer for this additional duty, they would have to be paid a salary supplement. Otherwise, it would make no sense for them to do so. Since the schools aren't going to pay a salary supplement, and nobody is going to volunteer, the issue is moot.

Can't imagine what gave you that idea. There are plenty of teachers and other school staff who would volunteer for that sort of thing and more. The football coach I talked about in my previous post charged an active killer while unarmed and chased him from the building. That coach had a CCW permit and would have been glad to have had his pistol with him. Another teacher in the school at the time ran to his vehicle to get his pistol but didn't make it back inside. The idea that there wouldn't be school staff who would volunteer for such an assigned duty is ridiculous.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Could be. I would think it would depend on the situation (as it often does). Given a scenario, such as you described earlier, where police response is measured in hours or days I imagine they may want someone who can respond beyond the classroom.

I don't think this bill is aimed at rural school districts, although I'm sure it would apply. I think it is aimed at the larger, more urban districts and, specifically, active shootings. Law enforcement in rural Alaska is a challenge all its own.

 

[bearcreek]

I don't think this bill is aimed at rural school districts, although I'm sure it would apply. I think it is aimed at the larger, more urban districts and, specifically, active shootings. Law enforcement in rural Alaska is a challenge all its own.

Probably. Just pointing out that the ROE's are more than likely not going to be the same everywhere.

 

[dogtown tom]

<--teacher/coach for 40+ years.

Will the bad guy with a gun have to meet these proposed physical fitness, mental health standards?
If no, neither should anyone else.

 

[dogtown tom]

....For teachers -- those few that would qualify -- to volunteer for this additional duty, they would have to be paid a salary supplement. Otherwise, it would make no sense for them to do so. Since the schools aren't going to pay a salary supplement, and nobody is going to volunteer, the issue is moot.

Wow.

 

[bearcreek]

<--teacher/coach for 40+ years.

Will the bad guy with a gun have to meet these proposed physical fitness, mental health standards?
If no, neither should anyone else.

We can debate the merits of a designated armed responder having to meet physical fitness standards, but this isn't exactly a logical argument. The same can be said of the bad guys that police or military might encounter. Just because the bad guys might not have physical fitness standards, doesn't mean police and military shouldn't.

 

[dogtown tom]

I don't know what world you're living in.

He's likely in the same world I live in. I have almost two hundred customers who are teachers, principals and administrators. Add in those who are married to a teacher and you could triple that.

The "but, but, but teachers are liberals!" shtick has never been true. Political values of teachers are a reflection of their community. If you live in a liberal cesspool, expect your teachers to be liberal. If you live in a conservative state or city, expect your teachers to reflect that.

 

[film495]

at this point, I'm not sure why nationally we're not making it required for anyone who works in a school to carry, and you would need an exemption to not carry and keep your job. Just to look at it from a different perspective. You know, we're interested in protecting the children or we're not. So far I'd say we're not.

 

[dogtown tom]

None of that exists in the schools up here.

It does here. If your state doesn't, ask your legislators and Governor why not.

My school district has had interior and exterior cameras, electric door locks and restricted access systems for over twenty five years. After Sandy Hook they installed double entry doors. We have one SRO at every middle school and two at our HS campuses. Current policy requires classroom doors be locked during the school day.

This year we began hiring School Marshals for every campus. Its a result of our awesome Republican dominated state legislature passing a law that they would not fund. So our school district gets to absorb the costs. It would have cost the state and my school district zero $$$ if they would allow teachers to carry on campus. I've written letters, but GOA/TSRA/TGR seem to worry more about things other than a teacher having Second Amendment rights.

 

[dogtown tom]

No, actually it's not. These are people employed by the school district. The school district has the right to set the standards they can carry under.

I would object if the law was to allow anybody who is legal to carry to carry on school grounds but they had to pass the PT test.

The Second Amendment lists an enumerated right of The People not agents of the State who are carrying on the state dime.

So you think the Second Amendment doesn't apply to state employees? Wow.

 

[dogtown tom]

You mean to tell me that you've never worked for an employer who explicitly forbade you to bring a firearm to work?


OK

Are you going to require all the teachers to pay their own liability insurance?

School property belongs to a corporate entity known as the school board or the school district. Does the property owner have the right to forbid firearms on their property? Do I have the right to tell you that you can't carry a gun in my home?

I'm not aware of any school that is open to The General Public. They limit who can come there to students, parents of students, employees of the school district and people who have business there such as mail delivery.

School district property is public property....private property rights have nothing to do with anything.

 

[dogtown tom]

I say it's a trap. They pass the law then the physical fitness part get an ADA act court challenge and that part gets tossed.
The "physical fitness part" satisfies the gun free zone enthusiasts who really believe a 90 old teacher packing heat will be disarmed by some unstable teen that probably should have been kicked out of school a long time ago.

The ADA has nothing to do with anything in this law.

 

[dogtown tom]

How are tuned-in, heavily armed police clearing a school supposed to differentiate between a teacher with a gun looking for an active shooter and the active shooter himself? I can understand why teachers, LEO’s, and administrators would want teachers to stay in their rooms.

The same way police officers differentiate in states that allow citizens to exercise their Second Amendment rights.

 

[dogtown tom]

No there isn’t. Some Alaskan schools only have ten or twenty students, a couple teachers, and maybe a principal. Some entire communities only have 50 - 200 people total, and often no police presence other than a trooper or VPSO that might cover several communities. Sometimes when you call the police they don’t show up until days later. There isn’t a dedicated security guard at every school.

Sometimes, you have a tiny school district with its own police force. Whose sole job is to patrol school campuses and provide for the safety and security of its students. Even then, they arrive late, are disorganized, lack leadership, and have less training in school safety than every teacher in my school district. Thats why so many died in Uvalde.

 

[The Night Rider]

School district property is public property....private property rights have nothing to do with anything.

Yeah, you're wrong there.

If the school is public property what right do you have to lock it down? It's public property I should be able to come and go to school anytime I want. I should be able to walk in there any school in Colorado Springs and sit down and audit a class.

Try that sometime to let me know how it works out for you

I drove by a local school today and I noticed that at the entrance to the school grounds there was a sign on defense that explicitly stated that only authorized personnel were allowed to be on the school grounds.

If you think that a school is public property, go try to hang out on the playground while schools in session. Not even during recess. Not even when kids are out there. Just go sit down at the table on the school playground while classes in session and see how long it takes security to come out and walk you off property

 

[dogtown tom]

I would think that, at least in some cases, this type of situation would help though. Chances are high that the police who respond would know the designated staff person at that school.

While they may know that there is an armed employee, expecting a random responding officer to immediately ID the good guy is a bit of a stretch. It is one of those situations that are described in every CHL/LTC class. "Good guy with gun, holding bad guy at gun point" means arriving officers see man with gun and see the threat as the man with gun.

 

[bearcreek]

While they may know that there is an armed employee, expecting a random responding officer to immediately ID the good guy is a bit of a stretch. It is one of those situations that are described in every CHL/LTC class. "Good guy with gun, holding bad guy at gun point" means arriving officers see man with gun and see the threat as the man with gun.

I was talking specifically about communities in Alaska where there might be 100-300 people in an entire town and 10-30 kids in the school. Particularly if there is some level of joint contingency planning ahead of time, I don't think it would be at all out of the realm of probability that the responding police officers would know all of the school staff in that situation.

 

[dogtown tom]

Yeah, you're wrong there.

No, I'm not.

If the school is public property what right do you have to lock it down?

Well, the state prison is public property and they can deny you access.

It's public property I should be able to come and go to school anytime I want.

Are you an adult? I ask because your understanding of what is "public property" vs "private property" and what rights you have on each is seriously flawed. Laughably flawed.
The Governors office here in Texas is "public property", but that doesn't mean any jackleg that wants to take a nap can just walk in a declare that he has rights to be present.
A police car or USPS truck is "public property", but that doesn't mean a cop, letter carrier or you can hop in and start driving for Uber.

I should be able to walk in there any school in Colorado Springs and sit down and audit a class.

No, you shouldn't.

Try that sometime to let me know how it works out for you

It won't work out because you don't have such a right.

I drove by a local school today and I noticed that at the entrance to the school grounds there was a sign on defense that explicitly stated that only authorized personnel were allowed to be on the school grounds.

Yep. Guess what? "Handicapped Parking Only" on public property is another rule you have to honor or risk getting a ticket. Just like parking at a meter on a public street.
Public golf courses aren't free, you pay a fee and have to abide by their rules.

If you think that a school is public property, go try to hang out on the playground while schools in session. Not even during recess. Not even when kids are out there. Just go sit down at the table on the school playground while classes in session and see how long it takes security to come out and walk you off property

I don't THINK its public property, I KNOW its public property.

How on earth can you have gone this far in life thinking "public property" means for anyone/at anytime/for anything?

 

[dogtown tom]

We can debate the merits of a designated armed responder having to meet physical fitness standards, but this isn't exactly a logical argument. The same can be said of the bad guys that police or military might encounter. Just because the bad guys might not have physical fitness standards, doesn't mean police and military shouldn't.

Physical fitness standards to exercise a right have nothing to do with fitness standards used for employment. Police and military have physical fitness standards because their job may require being physically fit to perform the job tasks.

 

[dogtown tom]

at this point, I'm not sure why nationally we're not making it required for anyone who works in a school to carry, and you would need an exemption to not carry and keep your job. Just to look at it from a different perspective. You know, we're interested in protecting the children or we're not. So far I'd say we're not.

Oh please. Nowhere in our Constitution or Bill of Rights does it require a person to take advantage of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
A teachers job is to teach. While I want the ability to carry a firearm at school, its not my job and I'm not trained in being a police officer.

Requiring someone to carry a firearm is as much a violation of their rights as denying the right to carry.

 

[bearcreek]

Physical fitness standards to exercise a right have nothing to do with fitness standards used for employment. Police and military have physical fitness standards because their job may require being physically fit to perform the job tasks.

What is being discussed here isn't necessarily about a "right". The bill specifically states that it is about having a designated staff person on hand to "augment responses my law enforcement during a crisis". Per the bill, this person/persons would be volunteering to put themselves in harms way, intentionally, should the need arise. Also per the bill, the school would be required to pay for this person's training. So, while it may not be their "job" per se, they would be volunteering to go above and beyond the legal responsibilities of a "normal" CCW holder and they are also receiving compensation for training. It's different.

 

[The Night Rider]

To my knowledge only one lawyer has commented on this post and he agrees with me that schools do not belong to the public and that teachers, in their capacity is Teachers working for the school board, don't have any second amendment rights.

So I'm not worried about what I need Jack leg out house lawyers have to say about the subject

 

[D.B. Cooper]

It does here.

My earlier post was a little too broad. We do keep all of our exterior doors locked, but they're manual locks. We also have very good camera coverage.

If your state doesn't, ask your legislators and Governor why not.

The reason why is money and priorities. We alwasy run a budget deficit, and we always spend the money on other things. Those "other things" are well-intentioned; I just don't agree with their priorities.

GOA/TSRA/TGR seem to worry more about things other than a teacher having Second Amendment rights.

I agree, and I'm not happy about it. All of the gun rights groups seem to prioritize sensitive places, AW/Mag bans, and bump stocks/pistol braces. I get it; those issues are more important to more people. Teachers' 2A rights and school security are a very low priority for the gun rights groups (and I think reflects their members' priorities, too). It makes me not want to support them (I already don't support FPC), but I understand where we would be without them.