Alaska Safe Schools Act

[D.B. Cooper]

He's likely in the same world I live in. I have almost two hundred customers who are teachers, principals and administrators. Add in those who are married to a teacher and you could triple that.

The "but, but, but teachers are liberals!" shtick has never been true. Political values of teachers are a reflection of their community. If you live in a liberal cesspool, expect your teachers to be liberal. If you live in a conservative state or city, expect your teachers to reflect that.

You know, I think you're right-you make a valid argument. Although this is getting off topic, I would suggest this to give you food for though: if your statement is true, then the extreme far left positions of the two teachers' unions, NEA and AFT, suggest that the vast majority of teachers, on a nationwide basis, are liberal.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Yeah, you're wrong there.

If the school is public property what right do you have to lock it down? It's public property I should be able to come and go to school anytime I want. I should be able to walk in there any school in Colorado Springs and sit down and audit a class.

Try that sometime to let me know how it works out for you

I drove by a local school today and I noticed that at the entrance to the school grounds there was a sign on defense that explicitly stated that only authorized personnel were allowed to be on the school grounds.

If you think that a school is public property, go try to hang out on the playground while schools in session. Not even during recess. Not even when kids are out there. Just go sit down at the table on the school playground while classes in session and see how long it takes security to come out and walk you off property

I don't know aobut the "audit a class" part (the state university doesn't even allow that) but right now, any resident can come to the main office of ay public school, sign in as a guest, and ask to observe in any classroom. I think the teachers' union contract has soe wording about giving teachers some advanced noticed, but no staff member can legally deny a citizen the ability to observe what is happening in the schools.

Regarding your scenario of a person on a playground, yeah, you're right; they'd be escorted out. However, if that same person signed in as a visitor and requested to observe recess or a PE class, they'd have to let them in.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

that doesn't mean any jackleg...

LOL. OMG, I haven't heard that term in decades.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

it may not be their "job" per se, they would be volunteering to go above and beyond the legal responsibilities of a "normal" CCW holder and they are also receiving compensation for training. It's different.

It would probably fall under "other duties as assigned" which is a catch that was in every union contract and employee handbook (non union jobs) that I have ever seen.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

You know. It might be time for us to take a step back. This is getting more contentious than it needs be.

 

[dogtown tom]

To my knowledge only one lawyer has commented on this post and he agrees with me that schools do not belong to the public

Name him.

and that teachers, in their capacity is Teachers working for the school board, don't have any second amendment rights.

Well no kidding.
If we did we wouldn't need silly laws like this one.

 

[goon]

My earlier post was a little too broad. We do keep all of our exterior doors locked, but they're manual locks. We also have very good camera coverage.


The reason why is money and priorities. We alwasy run a budget deficit, and we always spend the money on other things. Those "other things" are well-intentioned; I just don't agree with their priorities.

I agree, and I'm not happy about it. All of the gun rights groups seem to prioritize sensitive places, AW/Mag bans, and bump stocks/pistol braces. I get it; those issues are more important to more people. Teachers' 2A rights and school security are a very low priority for the gun rights groups (and I think reflects their members' priorities, too). It makes me not want to support them (I already don't support FPC), but I understand where we would be without them.

It’s also a complicated situation for those groups to get into. Even in a pro-RKBA group you’ll have a lot of strong opinions about guns in schools. The people commenting here all read the same bill, all imagined different outcomes from the same text, all see positives and negatives. Toss that to the general public that pays for the school via taxes and is much more divided. It’s a quagmire.

 

[dogtown tom]

You know, I think you're right-you make a valid argument. Although this is getting off topic, I would suggest this to give you food for though: if your statement is true, then the extreme far left positions of the two teachers' unions, NEA and AFT, suggest that the vast majority of teachers, on a nationwide basis, are liberal.

No, it suggests that their union leadership is anti gun. As is pretty much every union, electrical workers, retail workers, auto workers. And a lot of them are pro Second Amendment.
Teachers don't join unions because they espouse certain beliefs at a national level. They join because of the extra insurance, collective bargaining rights or because their state doesn't have a Right To Work law. Given that our President is anti gun, would an outsider make a correct assumption that he represents the opinion of every American? No.

In Texas, we don't have teacher unions because state law prohibits teachers from collective bargaining, right to strike, job security or tenure. We have teacher "associations" that provide legal advice and representation. While some are affiliated loosely with NEA and AFT, the overwhelming majority of Texas teachers do not belong to either of those. The largest teacher accociation in the state is the Association of Texas Professional Educators and stridently non union.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Teachers don't join unions because they espouse certain beliefs at a national level. They join because of the extra insurance, collective bargaining rights or because their state doesn't have a Right To Work law.

Even in right to work states, teachers, like all .gov employees, can be forced to join the union.

Given that our President is anti gun, would an outsider make a correct assumption that he represents the opinion of every American? No.

I'd say he represents the opinion of the (slim) majority. Which brings us back to the NEA and AFT. Their leadership is anti gun because anti gun teachers put them in those positions.

In any case, we're way off the rails at this point and beyond the bounds of THR. I'm pretty sure a thread lock is imminent if we keep this up.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

It’s also a complicated situation for those groups to get into. Even in a pro-RKBA group you’ll have a lot of strong opinions about guns in schools. The people commenting here all read the same bill, all imagined different outcomes from the same text, all see positives and negatives. Toss that to the general public that pays for the school via taxes and is much more divided. It’s a quagmire.

Wait. Are you saying the gun owners aren't a united front? It's almost like there are fudds or something.

 

[film495]

Oh please. Nowhere in our Constitution or Bill of Rights does it require a person to take advantage of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
A teachers job is to teach. While I want the ability to carry a firearm at school, its not my job and I'm not trained in being a police officer.

Requiring someone to carry a firearm is as much a violation of their rights as denying the right to carry.

so, cops, military, security guards, private security, all these people are having their rights violated?

 

[buck460XVR]

If you think that a school is public property, go try to hang out on the playground while schools in session. Not even during recess. Not even when kids are out there. Just go sit down at the table on the school playground while classes in session and see how long it takes security to come out and walk you off property

If it's not public property, why can you do all of those things when school is not in session? Schools, like any public property, are subject to certain rules and regulations. No different than any public park, or even public hunting land. Public property is anything owned by the government and not a private individual or company.

Because of the inherent risk to students and other staff in the attempt to control an active shooter threat by an armed staff member and the risk to the armed staff member from law enforcement because of mis-identification, I truly believe there needs to be discretion in the choice of who is allowed to carry in schools and a certain amount of training required. While I am a staunch supporter of the 2A, I do not believe it in itself qualifies folks for the position. Teachers and staff(at least in our district) are already required to attend safety meetings, stop the bleed and active shooter drills. I just participated in a SCA drill yesterday as part of of a volunteer SCA response team member. I would assume training for being armed in the school would be very similar.

 

[drobs]

Looking at AK State Senator Hughes, there's no way she could pass a physical fitness test required of current AK LE.

I'm sorry that's a ridiculous anti-gun requirement and the AK Republican Party needs to start looking for replacements for her. Both Missouri and Arkansas have armed teachers. Maybe she needs to copy our homework / laws.

 

[valnar]

The "physical fitness part" satisfies the gun free zone enthusiasts who really believe a 90 old teacher packing heat will be disarmed by some unstable teen that probably should have been kicked out of school a long time ago.

I purposely didn't read many comments before posting but did scan a couple. I didn't want other's opinions to sway my response, but this one stuck out.

If I were to "guess" as to the physical requirement, I'd say that quote is the reason why, even if it was written facetiously. Protecting kids should have a higher standard than normal and I'm honestly okay with that. If a teacher has access to a gun and 99.9% of the time there isn't an active shooter scenario, then said teacher should also have the physical wherewithal to prevent idiot teenage students from accessing it, grabbing it, or similar.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

If a teacher has access to a gun and 99.9% of the time there isn't an active shooter scenario, then said teacher should also have the physical wherewithal to prevent idiot teenage students from accessing it, grabbing it, or similar.

There are many students who could quite easily disarm a police officer, if they wanted to. Thisis why guns aren't allowed inside a prison. If this is a serious concern, and perhaps it is, then the only possible, viable option is airport level security at every entrance to every school, thereby creating a "clean environment" and a truly "gun free" zone.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Because of the inherent risk to students and other staff in the attempt to control an active shooter threat by an armed staff member...

I've heard this argument from teachers before. If this is a legitimate concern (has this ever happened?), then all of this is irrelevant. If a teacher were bent on attacking his or her own school, all the prohibitions against arming teachers that are currently in place will not prevent it. All the gun free zone signs will not prevent it. If a teacher is bent on murder, then there is nothing in place today that can prevent that. Thus, allowing armed teachers in the schools has no impact on that equation, so this is not a reason to deny teachers' 2A rights.

 

[valnar]

There are many students who could quite easily disarm a police officer, if they wanted to. This is why guns aren't allowed inside a prison. If this is a serious concern, and perhaps it is, then the only possible, viable option is airport level security at every entrance to every school, thereby creating a "clean environment" and a truly "gun free" zone.

Let's not make perfect the enemy of good. Any hindrance is better than none.

I assume you agree with me if you have a gun safe at home, knowing full well that a dedicated individual can still get into it.

 

[dogtown tom]

Even in right to work states, teachers, like all .gov employees, can be forced to join the union.

Absolutely false. Right-to-work laws

I'd say he represents the opinion of the (slim) majority. Which brings us back to the NEA and AFT. Their leadership is anti gun because anti gun teachers put them in those positions.

You cant be serious. Union membership at the local level is concerned about wages, job protection and working conditions. Having an anti gun position isn't why workers choose to join a union.
It's not even in the top ten reasons.

 

[dogtown tom]

so, cops, military, security guards, private security, all these people are having their rights violated?

If you don't understand the difference I'm sorry for you.
No one forces anyone to become a police officer, join the military or seek employment as an armed security guard. It's more than a bit likely the terms of employment and enlistment meant applicants agree to those terms of employment.
vs
A person being forced to carry a firearm just because they are an American.

I'm thinking you haven't read the Bill of Rights.

 

[dogtown tom]

If a teacher has access to a gun and 99.9% of the time there isn't an active shooter scenario, then said teacher should also have the physical wherewithal to prevent idiot teenage students from accessing it, grabbing it, or similar.

So you blame the teacher for the criminal actions of another person? Thats messed up.

For sure, a teacher who leaves a firearm unsecured and accessible to anyone else should be fired. It's negligent behavior.

But to say the teacher must have the "physical wherewithal" to fight off an attacker in order to carry? Dude, you're an anti gun advocate.

 

[dogtown tom]

If it's not public property, why can you do all of those things when school is not in session? Schools, like any public property, are subject to certain rules and regulations. No different than any public park, or even public hunting land. Public property is anything owned by the government and not a private individual or company.....

Don't bother. He knows lawyers who think schools are private property.

Because of the inherent risk to students and other staff in the attempt to control an active shooter threat by an armed staff member and the risk to the armed staff member from law enforcement because of mis-identification, I truly believe there needs to be discretion in the choice of who is allowed to carry in schools and a certain amount of training required.

I'm sorry. While I fully support someone being trained and competent in the use of firearms, requiring such training in order to exercise a right is just plain wrong. For sure, I want armed teachers to be skilled in the use of a firearm and there are ways to address that. Take a class, take a course, take minimum hours of training whatever.......and the teacher gets a stipend/insurance/ liability protections.

While I am a staunch supporter of the 2A, I do not believe it in itself qualifies folks for the position.

So you are perfectly fine with barbers, convenience store owners, cabbies, jewelers.........virtually anyone else being able to carry a firearm for their protection? Yet school teachers can't?
IMO, that's not a staunch supporter of the Second Amendment.

Teachers and staff(at least in our district) are already required to attend safety meetings, stop the bleed and active shooter drills. I just participated in a SCA drill yesterday as part of of a volunteer SCA response team member. I would assume training for being armed in the school would be very similar.

I wish Texas teachers could volunteer for training that would permit them to be armed on campus. I'm guessing that the Uvalde teachers would agree.

 

[westernrover]

I already mentioned with respect to the bill that is the subject of the original post, that a greater political change is needed in Alaska's senate before the bill or anything like it could reasonably be expected to pass. Proposing an untenable bill is simply a way to position-take.

If the discussion were to turn to school security, employee's civil rights, or general commentary on our public institutions, I would opine that our culture's education is best served by departing the public institutional model. The model we have now was conceived by John Dewey in the early 20th century and is deeply troubled and troubling. It is a failed experiment, and it is also grossly obsolete. I'm not going to detail all it's failures and obsolescence, but I will simply point to its irrelevance. While the state departments of education are nominally in charge of the public education system, the federal department of education that was not authorized by the constitution has bought them out and usurped them. The result is a colossal bureaucratic wasteland that leaves our society's children vulnerable to deviant agendas. There is no such thing as a "value-free" education, and the values established in the public institutions are corrupt.

The answer is education that is independent from state and federal corruption. There, teachers retain all their civil rights. I can tell you that I teach and carry every day and do so lawfully.

 

[valnar]

So you blame the teacher for the criminal actions of another person? Thats messed up.

For sure, a teacher who leaves a firearm unsecured and accessible to anyone else should be fired. It's negligent behavior.

But to say the teacher must have the "physical wherewithal" to fight off an attacker in order to carry? Dude, you're an anti gun advocate.

Seriously?? This isn't normal concealed carry out & about. In this instance, the kids probably know who has guns.

 

[dogtown tom]

Seriously?? This isn't normal concealed carry out & about. In this instance, the kids probably know who has guns.

Yeah. Seriously.
Answer the question. Do you blame the teacher for the criminal actions of another person?

You seem to have the belief that students attacking teachers to steal their guns is a real threat. They don't need to, they steal them from home or get them off the street.
Teacher assaults aren't as common as TikTok would have you believe.

My school district has around 50,000 students. I'm wondering where you see these types of assaults. I don't.

 

[valnar]

Yeah. Seriously.
Answer the question. Do you blame the teacher for the criminal actions of another person?

What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?

You seem to think this Act is about concealed carry. It's not. That's simply the yardstick they want to use for a minimum competency IN ADDITION to physical training and whatever else they dream up. It has zero to do with the teacher's 2nd amendment rights.

Think of the requirements a security guard must pass. The fact a given individual has a CC license (or not) is irrelevant to the job at hand. A security guard's minimum requirement isn't simply being able to lift a 2 pound pistol. So the school district wants a higher standard...so what? You're conflating individual rights with the requirements they set for the job.