alergic reaction to Triple Seven?

[Busyhands94]

hello guys. i think i might be having an allergic reaction to Triple Seven. what is Triple Seven made from? i am allergic to pollen and dust but that's about it. i was shooting in my shop witch is about the size of a small garage (don't lecture me about hearing protection or safety glasses, i use both) i have a bullet trap and i shoot my NAA .22 companions. however after a prolonged shooting sesh yesterday the place was pretty smoked out. i was coughing a lot but that has subsided. my nose is all plugged up and my head feel like it is under pressure. my question is this caused by Triple Seven? i normally use regular FFFFG black powder to shoot out there and i have not had any problems with that, but this started after i shot some Triple Seven powder sub. also out of curiosity what is Triple Seven made of? i suspect it is sugar based but that's just a guess.

~Levi

 

[oxide80]

I have no idea what's in it, but im sure in an unventilated area its not healthy and has some level of carcinogen as any product of combustion.

 

[junkman_01]

Levi,

You had better read this........

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/MSDS Files/Muzzleloading/TripleSe7en.pdf

 

[Curator]

Generally speaking you can only become "allergic" to an organic compound. More specifically, a foreign protein. Sometimes a combination of your own bodly fluids and a contaminent will cause an allergic reaction. Shooting in an unventilated area can provide numerous irritants, not the least of which is air-borne lead from the percussion caps. My understanding is that 777 is a sugar-based propellant. Sugar is organic. Black powder is not. Usually you don't become allergic on your first exposure but on subsequent exposure after becoming "sensitized." Judging from your posts you are a serious enthusiast. Don't let that interest cause you long-term harm. Shooting is an outdoor activity unless in a proper indoor area with excellent air changes.

 

[arcticap]

Adequate ventilation

I agree, have adequate ventilation when shooting guns indoors.

The MSDS lists these ingredients:

Charcoal
Potassium Nitrate
Potassium Perculate
Graphite

It's "rumored" that the charcoal in 777 is sugar based but there's no reference data to prove it. Forensic testing lists some other ingredients including "material consistent with wood charcoal" (Page 29).

#1 Portion of metal end caps containing black, white & gray residue. The residue was found to contain nitrate, perchlorate, chloride and carbonate ions.
This item also contained material consistent w/ wood charcoal, cyanoguanidine, benzoate & 3‐nitrobenzoic acid.
#2 White chunky material containing sodium perchlorate.
#3 Silver discs morphologically and chemically consistent w/ smokeless
powder.
The residue in Item #1 is consistent w/ black powder substitute residue
products of Triple Seven. Triple Seven consists of potassium nitrate, potassium perchlorate, sodium benzoate, cyanoguanidine, 3‐nitrobenzoic acid & charcoal.
The residue of Item 1 did not originate from the discs in #3. Due to the fact that the salt of perchlorate was not identified in Item #1, sodium perchlorate cannot be eliminated as being present prior to combustion.


http://www.forensic-testing.net/uploads/fts-08-exp_summary.pdf

 

[Foto Joe]

Levi,

One of the "Hazardous" byproducts listed on the MSDS is SO2 (Sulphur Dioxide). Sulphur Dioxide is an acute irritant, meaning that when you remove it or yourself from the environment your symptoms should pass. Although it may take a couple of days. Given that an allergic reaction can only happen with a protein, it's unlikely that you're allergic to T7, that doesn't mean you should make a habit of breathing the smoke. The MSDS also mentions Potassium Perchlorate. I'm not a chemist, but in my experience anything that has the term "Perchlorate" in it is not something that I want to breath or ingest.

I spent over two decades in the photo finishing/photography industry. Color processing of the old days involved plenty of Sulphur Dioxide as a by-product not to mention acids and heavy metals.

What I suggest is that you get your hands on a high volume fan and force ventilate your shooting area. In addition, you are by your own admission young. I'm not going to lecture you but keep in mind, what you do to your body now can have effects on it when you get to fossil age like some of us (not me yet, but sometimes I feel like it). For years, I swore off of protective gloves when working in the lab, in hind-sight, that might not have been the best idea. When you're dealing with lead products such as primers and bullets, it wouldn't hurt to be wearing nitrile gloves and make sure you're in a well ventilated area.

Keep in mind that lead will leach into you over a period of time and it takes a long time to get rid of it. Get your shooting area ventilated ASAP please.

'Nuf said

 

[Carl N. Brown]

CO carbon monoxide, CO2 carbon dioxide, SO2 sulfur dioxide.

SO2 combines with H2O to make H2SO3 sulfurous acid.

And burning gunowder will vaporize exposed lead (try cleaning a silencer sometime).

Any indoor shooting area should have an exhaust fan at the target area, drawing the toxic by-products away from the shooter.

 

[Busyhands94]

Junkman, that link was very helpful! i have decided to do all my shooting outside now, because my lungs feel like i just smoked two packs. and the whole lead thing is a good point as well. lead is pretty nasty stuff when it's flying at you or if it gets in your body. so i should remember to wear some gloves or wash my hands promptly afterward. i use the plastic caps you buy at toy stores, i think those contain sulfur. I'll have to look into that and see what is in those. i might be able to rig a fan to the window blowing out and one blowing in on the other side so i will have fresh air constantly flowing. maybe i should keep the loads on the light side to keep down the smoke. and maybe wear a respirator too, that would probably help a lot!

 

[tpelle]

SO2 Sulfur Dioxide is what actually kills you when you die of smoke inhalation (coming from someone who spent 35 years in the fire service).

 

[Busyhands94]

i was a volunteer firefighter for a while, and they did say something about sulfur dioxide, so i think you are right about the S02 being the culprit.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

Years ago when I was young I had breathing problems and headaches from shooting in an indoor range. In addition my nose would run. I don't know if their venelation was inadequate, but I can only assume it was. I don't do indoors anymore.

 

[Busyhands94]

that is exactly what I'm experiencing now. i have to do other "gunny" things to keep me from shooting indoors. wet molding holsters for my NAA revolvers, rolling paper cartridges, stuff like that. i actually found out how to make paper cartridges yesterday! i have made about 45 of them and i have wrapped them in brown paper and labeled them! it's great! i think i will be shooting plenty of these when i go to the range Saturday (outdoors of course) LOL!

 

[andrewstorm]

lead poisoning

Wash hands after handling any gun,never shoot indoors without a vacume type ventilation system,try to stay downwind of smoke,the less exposed to toxic coumpounds you are,the more time youll have to shoot on this earth,and enjoy our sport,...... be safe

 

[Busyhands94]

very good point! i would rather take the extra precautions to avoid lead poisoning than die young. lol! better say a shooter's prayer to keep that nasty lead out of us! this was on a plaque in the kitchen of my favorite gun club titled a shooter's prayer! what can i say, it stuck with me!
Guns are good
Guns are great
Lord help all who us hate
Give us this day our daily lead
our hunting land we call our spread
if i die here on this day
i wish for a heaven
with guns with witch to play
~Levi

 

[makos_goods]

Generally speaking you can only become "allergic" to an organic compound...
Sugar is organic. Black powder is not...

And 15% of gun powder is what?

Sorry, but am I missing something? Gun powder is just as organic a compound as 777. Or are you saying that sugar different? Correct me if I am wrong, but sugars are just Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen. Strangely enough so is charcoal.

I am not biochemist but I play one on the internet...

Regards,
Mako

 

[damoc]

tend to agree its probably possible to be alergic to 777 but more than
likely OP just needs better ventilation.

ive noticed a tightness in breathing when using 777 outside on days
with little wind i even noticed myself breathing wierd in a video i posted here once.

real BP smells much better than 777 even if its just as bad to be breathing in