ALICE packs: what do the sizes denote?

[silverlance]

I am 165# and 5'7".

I am building a survival backpack in the event of a catastrophic earthquake and I am forced to leave the house (most likely due to fire).

There's a guy selling ALICE packs that look decent for about $35 shipped. The problem is, he has three sizes: SMALL MEDIUM and LARGE. (these are the LC-1 packs btw with the seat belt type belt buckle)

Do the sizes mean that the packs themselves are larger or smaller, or does it mean it is mean for a small, medium, or large sized person?

further, does the ALICE system have a provision for attaching a rifle to it, like the swiss did with their k31 rifles? i know soldiers are required to always carry their guns, hand on pistol grip and HG, but i can think of many times in which id like to be able to carry it strapped the pack instead.

Thanks, guys

PS: we just had a 3.3 earthquake here a week ago, and peru just had a bad one, and yesterday there was a small tremblor about 200 miles north as well. so... its good to be prepared, yes?

 

[41magsnub]

IIRC Alice packs are sized by the size of the bag, not the wearer.

Be carefull though. There is a lot of ragged out junk Alice equipment floating around surplus outlets. You might be better off finding one locally so you can handle it first.

 

[41magsnub]

Further Army recollection, there is no provision to hang a weapon from an Alice back pack. All we did was stuff an M16 in sideways under the top flap and only then if you had to carry somebody elses weapon for whatever reason or in boot if you had to carry the pig. Bastard DI made us carry both our M16 and hte pig at the same time, though seldom with any ammo of any kind so it was not that big of a deal.

 

[silverlance]

thanks 41! now... what parts should i look at to make sure the pack is not worn out? as in, what are the critical parts and what condition should they be in?

i personally prefer canvas bags but i guess nylon will do OK.

 

[The Deer Hunter]

Look for rust and bent bars on the frame. Tears and large holes in the pack. I know nothing about them but I assume thats what you should look for.

 

[41magsnub]

Yep, the thing is just a backpack. Nothing special.

Here is everything you ever wanted to know about ALICE gear but were afraid to ask:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-purpose_Lightweight_Individual_Carrying_Equipment

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Unless there were budget reasons to consider, I'd have a hard time justifying getting an ALICE pack. I never liked the design much when I used one.

Also, keep in mind that while the medium pack can be used with or without the frame, the large pack requires the frame.

For your purpose, I would think they would end up being a little wide once you get them all loaded up.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

I like the medium pack. They are old news in terms of design, but most are nylon and built very tough. The frames were prone to cracks and many foreign look-alike frames were around. IIRK there were steel and aluminum frames at different times.

I've had my medium alice bag (no frame) for 25 years--I got it when I was 11!
Used them in the military--same deal. I would not want to carry one over a long distance--better options are out there.

With the frame, I would think you could rig a fair light rifle carry set-up.

 

[silverlance]

so... what better options would you suggest? commercial backpacks?

my current backpack is an old french f1 backpack. no frame and it is basically a dufflebag with straps and something to tie around your waist. ive used it for years heavily and i like it, but i can see how pouches would be nice.

 

[GigaBuist]

I know very little about the subject, but I've got both a large ALICE pack and a surplus MOLLE pack. I've done very little with them, but I find that for me the MOLLE works better as it has a number of different compartments.

 

[wuchak]

I suggest skipping the ALICE and getting something with a more modern load system. If you want an external frame you can't go wrong with Kelty and you can get one for around $100. The difference between the ALICE and Kelty or a modern internal frame is that ALICE packs were designed for people who had no choice but to carry them. The commercial packs have been designed and built by people to get to choose what they carry. I'd take an $80 American Camper external frame pack over an ALICE. Actually I'd take just about any commercially available internal or external pack made in past 10 years before an ALICE. You can get great deals at SierraTradingPost and CampMor.

Cabela's also has a nice line of backpacks made for hunters. The pack can be taken of off the frame and the frame has a bottom shelf so it can be use to carry other loads. Their hunter packs are also setup to allow easy carrying of rifles/shotguns/bows.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/index/index-display.jsp?id=cat20770&navAction=jump&navCount=1&cmCat=MainCatcat20712&parentType=category&parentId=cat20712

 

[Titan6]

I have carried the ALICE and the MOLLE many a mile.

I have never had an ALICE frame break on me but I think this is just dumb luck as I have seen dozens of busted frames over the last 20 years. When they break they can normally be lashed together with some straps and you can continue on. Still they are good for carrying a goodly amount of weight. A Large ruck can comfortably handle about 70 pounds a medium about 55 without risk to breaking. Smalls are not normally worth the effort.

As cheap solutions go you will not likely find a better option. So if money is an issue go with the ALICE, it is proven. There are many nicer systems out there at the better sporting goods stores but a good system will run you $200+. Avoid Walmart and such like the plauge.

The ALICE has all kinds of rails on the exterior of the pack where you can attach holsters and scabards. Weapons are almost never attached as the one of the first things you will do when you react to contact is ditch the pack.

Always go with a large ruck. Even if you don't fill it all the way you have the option.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

If you're building a survival pack then you want to be fast and light since you'll need to move quickly and possibly discreetly.
Old Alice packs creak and squeak like crazy, can be very uncomfortable for all but the most narrow range of body types, and they break frequently.

Get a commercial pack. Keep your load down to about 30 lbs or less, especially if you don't backpack or hike much. Carrying a bunch of stuff sounds like good preparation until you get 5 miles down the trail/road with it.

First:
Go to a local outfitter and get yourself measured for torso length. This measurement will help you find the right pack for your body dimensions.

If you must have an external frame, don't get it because you can "strap more stuff to it." Get it because you prefer the rigid structure to an internal frame pack. Strapping more stuff to it is a good way to have an unorganized and poorly weighted pack with bad weight distribution. And probably a noisy pack too. You don't want to sound like a band of Gypsies coming up the street.

Also, look for something with interchangeable hip belts so you can dial it in for your body type and good shoulder straps that have wide shoulder pads to disperse weight. A sternum strap (horizontal strap that goes across the chest) is a must. Cheap gun show or Wal-Mart backpacks won't have these features, and that's why you should leave them on the shelf for someone else.

A good place to look for specific recommendations would be the adventure racing category where fast and light is the name of the game.
For example: Osprey's Atmos 50 is a favorite that won't cost a fortune. It has 50 liters of volume, a lightweight and strong construction. For a little more money, you can get an Aether 60 that features an interchangeable strap system so it can be custom tailored to your body and more strength and space.

But, beware cheapo backpacks for a survival scenario like escaping natural disasters, etc.

 

[strambo]

A medium alice is a good survival/SHTF pack for $35 provided it is serviceable. I've put many, many miles through rough country with a 50-70+ lb alice pack on. Had rivets on the frame pop (the top center one) but it still works.

My favorite pack now is a Blackhawk 3 day that I got an internal frame for. I didn't pay for the pack (got it issued by private company) but I think it is $200 retail. Hard to touch the rugged usefullness of the alice pack for near the price. A commercial pack in the $30-$50 range won't last too long probably.

I still have a large Alice pack that will be my SHTF pack once I get it put together and stocked again.

 

[ktd]

These days I use one of the "3-Day' packs, like those offered by Eagle or Blackhawk for my every day pack, or a SpecOpsBrand THE Pack. I got mine for around $90 each, but I think the normal retail is a bit higher . My big pack is an Eagle Becker Patrol Pack, which I really like. They are all frameless soft packs. None are perfect, but they are all pretty good.

My old ALICE pack however, does hang around as my bug out bag. I like the frame, but my buddy swears by the frameless setup. I also have the cargo shelf for the frame, which works great for packing in the beer into camp (though it is not as good as a real packboard). As a bugout bag, I probably should go frameless, it will take up less space and stack better.

The 3Days and the THE have side straps that work okay for strapping a rifle to, but I prefer to sling mine. I would go to an REI and get some NRS or Yakima straps and just figure out a way to attach the rifle that works for you. Besides, camstraps are very useful, for securing stuff, tourniquets, belts, etc.

Things to look for, make sure it has all the straps, and that they work. Many will have the snaps on the pouches busted. Also, some will have the lining flaking off on the inside surfaces.

Go to Brigade or US Cav for accessories, I would recommend the padded kidney pad and cargo shelf. You might want the extra padded straps if you are never going to use the pack, then expect to have to wear it for hours at a time in an emergency. I find that if I do not use a pack for a while, it tends to be uncomfortable until my body conforms to the pack.

I had a little earthquake kit when I was in college, and some people really gave me crap about, then guess who all showed up at my dorm room at 0500 when the northridge earthquake hit?

 

[roo_ster]

I humped a large ALICE pack many a mile.

Like folks stated, newer commercial packs are much more comfy, especially internal frame rucks. They can also be quite spendy. Internal frame packs ARE REALLY FRICKEN' HOT!. I sacrifice load comfort for some air flow between me & the pack.

I have both a Large ALICE pack with all necessary bits as well as an older external frame commercial ruck from REI. Don't waste your time on med & small.

I got the large ALICE pack off ebay for ~$35. I looked at the pics and went for it. Most of them will be used and will have stitched-up nylon bits. No effect on function. If you get to handle a specimen, look hard at the rivets holding the frame together. Thats where mine always broke. In the service, my issue L ALICE had a tendency to break on impact during a military static line jump and was usually loaded out to 100lbs+. What a b---h to waddle with from the hanger to the C130 when rigged for jumping.

If money is tight, a surplussed ALICE can fill the requirement. DO NOT let the first time you use it be when SHTF. Take her out for some ruck marches to get your body conditioned. Start with a 20 lb load & work your way up to 75+ lbs over time. I wear mine loaded down when walking with the missus & kiddos in the stroller. It allows me to keep up the intensity at the slower pace my wife prefers.

One virtue of the ALICE pack has been extolled by THR's tech wizard, Derek. That is, the ability to overload the sucker & slap/strap crap all over it so that it looks more like a sack of tumors than a rucksack. We're talkin' lots of bulk & lots of weight (120lbs+). That is how I would outfit mine on a training march when Uncle Sam signed my pay check.

As to strapping your weapon to it, that is not recommended, but do-able. I would suggest that you use some of the several side-mount points & a saddle scabbard rather than going transverse across the top. Balance it out with a 2qt canteen and maybe an E-tool on the other side. This assumes you are packing a rifle & not a crew-served weapon or parts thereof.

If you go for it and decide to doll it up, the first two doo-dads I would recommend are the extra large/wide kidney pad and the larger/wider "SF" shoulder pads (essentially just larger shoulder pads).

Good luck.

 

[ktd]

forgot about the ventilation aspects, that is one really nice thing about the framed ALICE, it was nice to have in a humid place like Hawaii.

Although I prefer the Eagle stuff to Blackhawk, the Blackhawk has a "ventilated" padded back that actually seems to work pretty well at keeping one cool, IVS I think they call it. I think the Eagle's now have a similar system, but I have not worn a current one in the field so I do not know how well it works (but I bet it works good). I was pretty skeptical of Blackhawk's hype about it, but when I wore packs without it, I noticed the difference.