All guns outlawed in Australia?

[evan price]

Quite a feat of disambiguation to compare China's prison rate to the US, when most crimes in China that would get you prison time in the us get you a firing squad instead (or just a bullet in the ear on the way to the showers.)

We could go with a ZERO incarceration rate if we just eliminate that pesky Constitution and make any crime a capitol offense (right down to traffic tickets, eh?)

 

[Yankee]

Quite a feat of disambiguation to compare China's prison rate to the US, when most crimes in China that would get you prison time in the us get you a firing squad instead (or just a bullet in the ear on the way to the showers.)

That's a gross exageration of reality and in any case, execution rates are hardly relevant to this argument. For example, China executed just 470 people in 2007 so even if they didn't have the death penalty, their prison population would be just a fraction over 1.5 million. In the same period, 2.3 million people were sitting in American prisons.

We could go with a ZERO incarceration rate if we just eliminate that pesky Constitution and make any crime a capitol offense (right down to traffic tickets, eh?)

I can't quite figure out what you're trying to say here and your argument seems counter-intuitive. Despite having a constitution garanteeing freedoms, America has more people living with no freedoms (2.3 million) than any other nation on earth. If the US has millions of people in jail despite the constitution, logic would say that even more people would be in jail without the constitution. For example, people who get off because they didn't get their miranda rights or a search was conducted improperly would be able to be convicted rather than let off.

Oh hang-on - I see that you are trying to say that there would be nobody in jail if every criminal was executed. Interesting theory but perhaps a little extreme. Perhaps a better option would be to grant citizens greater freedoms like we do here in Australia. For example, does it really help society to imprison a woman who decides to sell her body?. Shouldn't she be the one to decide who she can and can't have sex with? Is she really free if the US government is the one making those sort of fundamental lifestyle choices for her? And so what if a citizen decides to grow and smoke some pot? Surely adult americans should be trusted by the government to decide what we can and can't put into our bodies?. Freedom is more than just having a greater than 10 round capacity on your handgun.

 

[Old Guy]

Try standing up in any Australian pub and call them weak, oppressed sheeple with no freedoms. The guys I know would take pleasure in freely kicking your arse.

My first visit to an Australian Pub, in 1965, complete with dark suite, bri nylon shirt and tie! Been in the country 5 days, just got five jobs after five interviews.

After all those 5s, a first, ordered a pint of Bitter, barmaid said "We don't sell bitter love, and a pint gets warm too quick" after further discussion, I ended up with an ice cold Schooner of beer.

Forgot to mention this bar had sawdust on the floor, and tiled walls! Helps with clean up.

A customer in shorts, ripped Aussie Rules shirt and flip flops, walked up to my pale Liverpool face (complete with rimless specs and red beard) and declared "If you don't know how to order your beer, get back to England you Pommy Bxxxxxd" in the north of England the B word meant what the dictionary said it was, not nice.

As my back was soaked in sweat, my face red as a tomato, this bit of welcome did not go down well! My right cross slid him under a table, were he stayed! And my prancing around with my fists up got no takers! So I drank up, paid up, and went back to the hostel to find some ice for my hand!

Looking back I am sure those working Guy's having a quite drink thought a well dressed nut case had arrived on the welcoming shores (mostly) of NSW.

 

[Radagast]

G'day Morgo! Are you the leader of the Pinoy Mafia? I think I recognize a few of those toys. You may have some of my Beretta mags still, not that I need them, I have too many as it is.

 

[Morgo]

First rule of Pinoy Mafia, don't talk about Pinoy Mafia.
Which one's do you recognise?

 

[Radagast]

Stainless Beretta, USP 9 & USP Match, I'm pretty sure you had a Glock 17A & a 686 International as well.

Ken

 

[oneounceload]

Thanks for the info. Self-defense is not a valid reason? It boggles the mind how Austrailian citizens could allow this to happen to them.

Why? After Tasmania's "massacre" things got real bad. WE are letting it happen every day with the folks we elect to our own government. After ANY big shooting, it makes the news and more "control" is deemed necessary for the safety of the citizens. (Nevermind that they continuously keeping releasing prisoners early due to budget cuts, only to re-arrest, try and incarcerate them)....That's a WHOLE 'nother thread......

 

[CoRoMo]

I don't know if Yankee will drop in on this old thread, but I'd like to hear something in regards to gun owners who've used their guns in self defense. I read that SD isn't a valid reason to get a handgun license, and almost nobody carries for protection, but surely there have been/are gun owners who've been attacked in their homes and resorted to the use of a firearm, that they legally own, to stop the threat.

How does that play out in the legal system? Are there justified/defense shootings?

 

[middy]

I agree completely Starboard, if you take all of the criminal acts out of the statistics, you find that America is in fact an extremely safe and crime free society. In fact, if you ignore the pesky 16,000 murders a year and hundreds of thousands of rapes, violent assaults and robberies, America's crime rate is actually lower than the places you mentioned.
/sarc

You're being intentionally obtuse. Those people prey on each other for the most part. Life is quiet and safe for your average American.

Your sophistry in a previous post is blatant and distasteful. While it is technically true that the likelihood of rape is "only 0.6% more" for an Australian woman, you're not really using percentages properly. The fact remains that she is more than twice as likely to be raped.

You may think that violent assault is all in good fun, a little fisticuffs between fellows... you can keep that attitude as well. A polite society does not put up with brawlers and bullies, and the meekest and weakest of us have the ability to maintain their dignity without taking a beating from some thug.

 

[Calibre44]

CoRoMo wrote: but surely there have been/are gun owners who've been attacked in their homes and resorted to the use of a firearm, that they legally own, to stop the threat.

How does that play out in the legal system? Are there justified/defense shootings?

You may find the article from the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in the UK interesting about defending yourself in your home: click here

Here are a few examples sited in the article where the defender killed the intruder and was not prosecuted:

Robbery at a newsagent's. One of the two robbers died after being stabbed by the newsagent. The CPS did not prosecute the newsagent but prosecuted the surviving robber who was jailed for six years (Greater Manchester);

A householder returned home to find a burglar in his home. There was a struggle during which the burglar hit his head on the driveway and later died. No prosecution of householder who was clearly acting in self-defence (Derbyshire);

Armed robbers threatened a pub landlord and barmaid with extreme violence. The barmaid escaped, fetched her employer's shotgun and shot at least one of the intruders. Barmaid not prosecuted (Hertfordshire);

Two burglars entered a house armed with a knife and threatened a woman. Her husband overcame one of the burglars and stabbed him. The burglar died. There was no prosecution of the householder but the remaining burglar was convicted (Lincolnshire);

A middle aged female took a baseball bat off a burglar and hit him over the head, fracturing his skull. The burglar made a complaint but the CPS refused to prosecute (Lancashire).

 

[CoRoMo]

Thanks Calibre44. That's very enlightening.

 

[Morgo]

Yup have a 686 international dx and glocks. I'm curious though, where did you see them before?

 

[Radagast]

Morgo: Anzac Range

 

[Radagast]

CoRoMo: In Australia use of firearms in self defence by house holders is very rare (due to the requirement to lock them up) but on the rare occasion when they are used the no one is prosecuted, even when they have been in breach of the law by having the gun accessible. Plenty of people have been prosecuted for not having their firearms safely stored when the police have visited for other reasons though, so the majoroty of gun owners keep them under lock and key, myself included.

 

[Morgo]

lol, I'm at Newcastle only ever been to my range up here. Must be a copy cat around

 

[w_houle]

" self defense is not a valid reason"
This is also true for OC/CCW in some states in the U.S. [citation needed]

 

[jpwilly]

Americans could get smart and stop letting violent criminals back onto the streets! Most criminals are REPEAT offenders committing (and recommitting) a majority of the crimes!